March 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

GTInspector feedabck
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

Hi guys I'm doing some videos 3 or 4 on GTInspector (I love it). Now I did Smalltalk globals inspect because I wanted to have a large object tree. I tried different ways to filter the presented list but they all failed. - when I typed stupidly Point I got a DNU (so the search should have a exception wrapper) - then after reading the ghost text I each = #Point So I will not show this aspect and just focus on the others. Stef

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[Bloc] content vs contents
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

Hi native english speaker what is the best content or contents? Stef

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Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :)
by Yuriy Tymchuk March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

You know people, you should get a life. The call was to Pharoers to improve Numerical Methods in Pharo. I understand that someone is pissed that Pharo is evolving, but I donât understand why you keep replying to them. Uko > On 06 Mar 2016, at 14:31, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > From: Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :) > Date: 6 March 2016 at 14:31:24 GMT+1 > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Cc: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > Reply-To: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com>, Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > > > > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :) > Date: 6 March 2016 at 14:30:03 GMT+1 > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Reply-To: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > > > Amen! > > My lastname is St-Jean, like it or not I'm closer to Ducasse than Hollansworth! > > I discovered Smalltalk with ObjectWorks on AIX : I'm closer to Pharo than Python, C, C++, C#, Ruby, Snobol, Dart, Go or any other language... Like it or not, I'm closer to Smalltalk than Java, COBOL or any other retarded programming language... > > I've been working as a consultant in Smalltalk since the 90s. I don't care : VW, VAST, VSE as long as it's Smalltalk! I'm closer to Pharo than I am to anything else (except Modula-2). > > This stupid war is sooooooo stupid! > > If you know what the DNU acronym means, you're a Smalltalker. Period. > > Pharo can go its own way (whether I like it nor not), but it's still Smalltalk! > > These guys (the Pharoers, and StÃ©phane Ducasse) have made *tremendous* steps forward. Like "how come nobody ever did that for Smalltalk except James Robertson" ? > > I like Pharo. I fell in love with VW 2.5. > > Vous Ãªtes si belles, vous toutes! > > I love Smalltalk! > > > > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > > From: Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Sent: Sunday, March 6, 2016 7:00 AM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :) > > Sorry guys but I dont think this is non sense because you may be coding in Pharo and Smalltalk for a long time, but as a beginner I was confused by this, and to this day I am still confused why Pharo is not calling itself a modern implementation of Smalltalk. Even in Pharo by Example there was no mention at all the Pharo is a Squeak fork, nothing, now there is (few week before) , guess who added it. No mention about Squeak in our website whatsoever. Why ? Do we just fork and forget about them ? > > Also this whole guilt about the so called "failure" or "death" of smalltalk is hilarious. Smalltalk was never popular and we certainly wont be with Pharo, because in the end its very unfamiliar and most coders dont like going outside their comfort zone. Personally I am fine with that but this is why I use Pharo to get outside my comfort zone and think outside the box, but I dont kid myself, I belong to a tiny minority. > > I am sorry if you feel that we derail the thread, but some of us feel very uncomfortable by some people trying to mislead newcomers that Pharo will at some point brake away from Smalltalk heritage when we all know that wont happen for the following reasons 1) Smalltalk is an awesome language and its failure to become popular has nothing to do with the IDE and the language and more to do with lack of libraries, documentation and third party tool support plus of course the all important familiarity b) Most likely a ton of Squeak and older Smalltalk code will remain in Pharo because none sane enough would removed code that has stood the test of time, is well designed and works c) Even if you have a tiny sense or realism you will realize that the reason why people use Pharo is because is a modern implementation of smalltalk, trying to connect with modern technologies but at same time remaining a smalltalk in the core. > > And finally lets take into account that all languages are evolving. > > I was coding C++ till 1996 and was very frustrated with the language, manual memory management, inflexible type system, horrible GUI libraries (MFC). Now I learn C++ 11 which means an almost fully dynamic type systems (see auto , templates etc) , automatic memory management (smart pointers), vast array of greatly design GUI and graphics libraries (QT, Unreal, GTK etc). In 20 years C++ has become night and day, sure still much more ugly than Pharo but far, far better . Did we stop calling it C++ ? > > I totally agree, that this discussion arises few time per year and in the end we dont agree. But I dont post here to make you change your mind, I know people rarely do that, I post here because I want to make crystal to begineers viewing this mailing that for me and many others: > > Pharo IS Smalltalk, Pharo IS a Squeak fork, Pharo is a modern implementation that tries to push forward but respects its heritage and pays credit to it. > > > Saying that if this numpy variant library intends to target only Pharo then it makes more sense to call it SciPharo. > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 12:30 PM Volkert <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de <mailto:volkert@komponentenwerkstatt.de>> wrote: > +100 > > > On 06.03.2016 09:48, stepharo wrote: >> Why Pharo is not smalltalk and will not be Smalltalk >> >> - First because we make it to free us from the past. >> >> - In the future we want that people that learned smalltalk in the 90 do not discard Pharo because >> >> - "what killed smalltalk was that we could not work well in team" >> - "smalltalk oh it does not scale" >> - "I cannot edit my code with emacs" >> - "oh back in 1993 I got lecture and the system took 10 min to boot on our sparc (I got this story yesterday)" >> - I did not get how you work in team >> - "with Smalltalk you cannot save your code in svn" >> - "Smalltalk is monolithic" >> - "you are in a cage you cannot interact with the outside world" a guy organising OOPSLA >> - "Smalltalk what a dated name! bavardage: tu programmes en bavardage, donc les resultats ne doivent pas >> etre si super que cela...." >> >> I do not care that these statements are right or wrong. >> I do not care that people are ignorant. And yes with some education we can show that they are wrong. >> There are in the mind of people that got in touch with Smalltalk. >> No more no less. >> >> So may be Smalltalkers should read book about marketing in general. >> >> So you are stuck in your history and I'm dreaming about the future: and the future is Pharo not Smalltalk. Face it. >> There will be no renewal of Smalltalk. Pharo is the chance for Smalltalk to exist in 2050. >> The future is much more important that the history. >> >> You do not make people dreaming telling them that back in the 1940 you add to cross the street to fetch water. >> >> >> >> >>> left blank on purpose >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 5/3/16 18:22, Eliot Miranda a Ã©crit : >>>> Stef, >>>> >>>> On Mar 5, 2016, at 12:10 AM, stepharo < <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> You probably leave in a protected environment but I do not live in the same. >>>>> Did you check numPy recently or R? momemtum? >>>>> Do you think that people do not know how to count? >>>>> In 1980 my students were not even born, so how can it be better than >>>>> python, java, c#, lua, ... >>>>> >>>>> Do you think that it makes me happy to see my old friends leaving our language and do node.js. >>>>> Seriously. >>>>> Why do you blame me? Frankly tell to leave Pharo and I will leave. I can tell you. >>>>> I think that I need a break in my life in this moment so it would be a good opportunity. >>>>> Because if each time I do something to improve the wealth and visibility of our system >>>>> I get such kind of feedback then may be this is the time to do something. >>>>> Afterall I may be wrong. >>>>> Seriously if you think that I'm not doing a good job and you want to stay with old friends >>>>> just let me know. but if I stay then do not tell me that I'm an asshole that does not want to >>>>> promote smalltalk. >>>> >>>> I do not blame you. I am offended by Pharo disavowing the Smalltalk name. I am offended when people state Pharo is not Smalltalk. I want to refute false assumptions about the name Smalltalk, such as the equating it with cobol. Instead of taking it personally why don't you address my points about older programming languages whose names (AFAICT) are not perceived negatively? >>>> >>>> >>>> I support this community and am excited to participate in it. I admire and respect your efforts, StÃ©phane, in developing, organizing and supporting this community. But that does not mean I will keep quiet about something I profoundly disagree with and think is wrong. And that thing is to deny Pharo is Smalltalk. >>>> >>>> And I do this not because I am a zealot, but because words meaning are important, because to understand each other we should call a spade a spade, and because I am grateful for and delighted by this thing called Smalltalk, and I will not support taking credit away from it. Ruby is inspired by Smalltalk. Pharo is the real thing. >>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>> Le 5/3/16 02:18, Eliot Miranda a Ã©crit : >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 12:08 PM, stepharo < <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> SciPharo? Not so great news from my POV. >>>>>>> What is so much pharo specific in this library? >>>>>>> Is Smalltalk scientific community large enough for yet another split? >>>>>> Split of what? Let us be tagged with a name of 1980 and die in peace. Yes this looks like a >>>>>> smart move. >>>>>> There are just Python and R and Javascript around (not talking about ruby and swift) >>>>>> so this is a great move. We are not the cobol of object-oriented programming!! >>>>>> >>>>>> When I read sentiments like this it makes me want to leave the community. I find it so offensive that the Pharo community uses Smalltalk but wants to distance itself. It feels like theft or massive disrespect for the inventors of the language, or a complete lack of gratitude. >>>>>> >>>>>> C is older than Smalltalk and no one says "C is the cobol of low-level imperative languages". List is much older than C but no one wants to rename Lisp because it is perceived as old. >>>>>> >>>>>> Smalltalk is a beautiful name, carefully chosen to differentiate and identify the system as different, not arrogant, not hieroglyphic. Further, Smalltalkl /is/ different and distinctive materially. Why anyone would be ashamed of that incredible heritage and pervasive influence is beyond me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Offended, >>>>>> Eliot >>>>> >>> >> > > > > > > >

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[Bloc] ing versus er
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

wrapContent self resizing: BlLayoutWrapContentResizing new I will rename such code to be wrapContent self resizer: BlLayoutWrapContentResizer new BlLayoutWrapContentResizer is a strategy (and object responsible of doing something) and as such it is much better to use er and ing. Comment if needed. Stef

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Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :)
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

Hi guys I met Didier Besset and we had a great hacking session and discussions with Serge Stinckwich. Didier would like to help Pharo and the numerical part of it. ***Big thanks*** Didier. We would like to do several things: - Work on "Hows to" The numerical methods in Pharo is good but the gap between us and the math is too large :) so the idea is to have a series of "how to ..." - histomgram (simple, based on distribution) - Improve the SciPharo/NumPha (previously SciSmalltalk) library This morning we started to implement a ComponentPrincipalDecomposition by combining two of the objects available in SciPharo. Then we started to enhance the distributions to make sure that we can plug other distribution for having controlled random number. - Do a public call to know what is missing for you: this is this mail :) Didier would like to work on concrete cases. I love that attitude So tell us :) Hernan ?? Alex: ?? pvalue? better distribution? Vincent: covariance? CPA? Philippe: times series Serge R frames? Sami: Better random number and various distributions? - Organise a two day lectures with practices on concrete case in September with a recording session. Either at IRD Bondy or Lille. - Make sure that the Numerical Method book will get on lulu :) with a better cover and title :) Stef

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Starting to add class comment and test on BlElements
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

Hi blockers and alek in particular, the code is cool and I like that each method is commented. I'm starting to write a real class comment that we will be able to use in a documentation. But I cannot run the example so this is difficult to write tests. So Alek how do you know that you make progress? Where should I start? I thought BlElement was the starting point. Side note: Now I wonder if we want to have all the assert: May be yes and we should have an opal plugin to turn them off after. allChildrenDo: aBlock "Evaluate aBlock for all my children gathered recursively (excluding the receiver). aBlock must not be nil. aBlock must accept exactly one argument" self assert: aBlock isNotNil. self assert: aBlock argumentCount = 1. self childrenDo: [ :child | aBlock value: child. child allChildrenDo: aBlock ] Stef

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[Bloc] about resizing
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

Hi alex I would like rewrite exact: aNumber self resizing: (BlLayoutExactResizer new size: aNumber) as exact: aNumber self resizer: (BlLayoutExactResizer new size: aNumber) you have Object subclass: #BlLayoutAxisParams instanceVariableNames: 'resizing' classVariableNames: '' package: 'Bloc-Core-LayoutStrategy-Core' and the resizing method is in private protocol however it looks like it is used a lot outside. So should I change all the senders + protocol? Stef

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Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :)
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

I do not know in which world you live. You are probably not exposed to students and to technology stack, techno center, hackaton and other place were developers gather and hack. You probably use Smalltalk for your hobby and this is great. I'm selling Pharo to industry and programmers and the competition is real. I'm sad because you did not get anything that I'm said. Sorry but I will not continue this thread. Now you will not force us to market Pharo the way it should. If you are not happy, put money on the consortium and come to talk to us but you will be disappointed because the complete board is thinking the same. We are marketing our future. Now I will ask to be ban from this list such recurrent discussions. Why because we all lose time and you make me losing a lot of energy and frankly I would be you I would prefer that Stephane Ducasse, the Great Energizer is focusing on producing cool videos, new books or whatever instead of talking about this "pharo is smalltalk" shit. Yes you see I spent 14 hours to go to discuss with didier and we pushed the numerical method book (that I reviewed in the past several times), with serge we edited the new version of the book, we patiently collected all the libraries over the years, we are fighting with dependencies and more. So it gives the right to do what we want and if you are not happy, I'm sorry about it but this is like that! Stef

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[Bloc] BlShapeResizing -> BlShapeResizer
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

Hi blockers I would like to rename BlShapeResizing into BlShapeResizer Object subclass: #BlShapeResizing instanceVariableNames: '' classVariableNames: '' package: 'Bloc-Core-!Core-Path' I hope this is ok for you. Stef

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[Bloc] buildAthensPaintOn: vs asAthensPaintOn:
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

hi alex why do you rename asAthensPaintOn: into buildAthensPaintOn: Stef

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