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[Pharo-project] Issue: 423, tiny cleanup
by Michael Roberts Dec. 21, 2008

Dec. 21, 2008

http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=423 Tiny method removal. thanks, Mike

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Re: [Pharo-project] Parsing problem
by Bill Schwab Dec. 21, 2008

Dec. 21, 2008

Stef, Just out of curiosity (and to tell me how excited to get<g>), what will the state of the system after these changes? Will _ be allowed in method names? In class names? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/21/08 4:55 AM >>> Hi gwenael Today I want to integrate your changes since I thought that you gave us the code of the methods but fixed and not just the selectors. Now this list is long and I do not want to do it by hand. Could publish a slice in the pharoInbox with all the code changed? If you cannot do it right now tell us how we can proceed. You can do two slices one for [:e and one for _ -> := Stef On Dec 18, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Gwenael Casaccio wrote: > Hi, > > I've discussed with Stephane and may be we can fix all the methods > that have : > _ instead of := > or some methods have [ : myArg ... ] instead of [ :myArg .... ] > > So we can use a parser that strictly check that we respect grammar. > There is in this mail an attach file that contains the list of the > classes and > methods that are not corrects. > > Cheers, > Gwenael Casaccio > > > > <parsingerrors.txt.zip>_______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers
by Bill Schwab Dec. 21, 2008

Dec. 21, 2008

Lukas, My understanding is that the OB tool set is the presumptive choice for Pharo - unless I'm wrong, that makes this a Pharo related topic, if only to reopen the choice in light of your position. Do as you want, but Object Arts had this idea and very quickly decided the simpler notifier had a very essential role. They left the option, activated the notifier by default, and strongly warned against deactivating it. That was based on being bitten by the kinds of concerns I have documented here. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> renggli(a)gmail.com 12/20/08 6:33 PM >>> Sorry, but I think nobody understands: The "issue" reported has absolutely nothing to do with Pharo, but with the extra package OB-Tools that Damien decided to include with his development images. There is no option to enable or disable the pre-debugger, and I won't add one either: <http://mail.wiresong.ca/pipermail/ob-dev/2008-August/000580.html>. If you don't like OB-Tools you either don't load the package or select a different toolset by evaluating "ToolSet askForDefault". Lukas On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > That would be better than the current situation, but, among other > questions I'm probably not going to think of, it might be easy to decide > how many debuggers are open when the error occurs, but how many are > trying to open? Maybe a shared queue would suffice. Anyway, I get a > vote, and it's in favor of notifiers; if there is further a preference > to skip that step, that's fine by me. > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >>>> pennell.david(a)gmail.com 12/20/08 4:52 PM >>> > So only open one and recognize eecursive UHE and do something clever. > Opening an infinite # of any kind of window sucks. > > -david > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 2:58 PM, "Bill Schwab" <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > wrote: > >> Stef, >> >> Under ordinary circumstances, it's ok, but OA tried this and then >> quickly decided it was a bad idea. Imagine a budding recursive >> chain of >> errors; the extra load of opening the debugger can prevent a rescue >> that >> might be possible given a lightweight notifier. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >>>>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/20/08 2:37 PM >>> >> ahh now I understand because I'm often working on pharo core and I >> could not really understand >> what was the problem. >> >> Now indeed what is wrong with getting just the debugger? assuming the >> same error is raised? >> stef >> On Dec 20, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> >>> wrote: >>>> I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window >>>> (the small one) and not the full debugger. >>> >>> I guess Bill is using the Dev-Image of Damien with OB-Tools loaded. >>> >>> Lukas >>> >>> -- >>> Lukas Renggli >>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers
by Bill Schwab Dec. 20, 2008

Dec. 20, 2008

That would be better than the current situation, but, among other questions I'm probably not going to think of, it might be easy to decide how many debuggers are open when the error occurs, but how many are trying to open? Maybe a shared queue would suffice. Anyway, I get a vote, and it's in favor of notifiers; if there is further a preference to skip that step, that's fine by me. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> pennell.david(a)gmail.com 12/20/08 4:52 PM >>> So only open one and recognize eecursive UHE and do something clever. Opening an infinite # of any kind of window sucks. -david On Dec 20, 2008, at 2:58 PM, "Bill Schwab" <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Stef, > > Under ordinary circumstances, it's ok, but OA tried this and then > quickly decided it was a bad idea. Imagine a budding recursive > chain of > errors; the extra load of opening the debugger can prevent a rescue > that > might be possible given a lightweight notifier. > > Bill > > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >>>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/20/08 2:37 PM >>> > ahh now I understand because I'm often working on pharo core and I > could not really understand > what was the problem. > > Now indeed what is wrong with getting just the debugger? assuming the > same error is raised? > stef > On Dec 20, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > >> On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> >> wrote: >>> I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window >>> (the small one) and not the full debugger. >> >> I guess Bill is using the Dev-Image of Damien with OB-Tools loaded. >> >> Lukas >> >> -- >> Lukas Renggli >> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers
by Bill Schwab Dec. 20, 2008

Dec. 20, 2008

Stef, Under ordinary circumstances, it's ok, but OA tried this and then quickly decided it was a bad idea. Imagine a budding recursive chain of errors; the extra load of opening the debugger can prevent a rescue that might be possible given a lightweight notifier. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/20/08 2:37 PM >>> ahh now I understand because I'm often working on pharo core and I could not really understand what was the problem. Now indeed what is wrong with getting just the debugger? assuming the same error is raised? stef On Dec 20, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > wrote: >> I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window >> (the small one) and not the full debugger. > > I guess Bill is using the Dev-Image of Damien with OB-Tools loaded. > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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[Pharo-project] Mac VM arguments access problem
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Dec. 20, 2008

Dec. 20, 2008

Hi john Gwenael told that: SystemImage current getSystemAttribute: 1 returns well the image name SystemImage current getSystemAttribute: 2 does not return the other arguments passed Apparently this is working under linux. Then apparently when he launches the vm from the command line he cannot click but the mouse scrolling works. I asked to send a report but he is away. So sorry for the fuzzyness of my report. I prefer to report is than to forget. He will complement it if you need more info Stef

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[Pharo-project] Notifiers
by Bill Schwab Dec. 20, 2008

Dec. 20, 2008

Hello all, One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. starting with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid succession. Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers
by Bill Schwab Dec. 20, 2008

Dec. 20, 2008

Stef, This appears to be deliberate in the new OB tools. I'm all for it as a preference, but recommend disabling it as a default - it's a long way from error to open debugger, so a safe landing along the way is a good idea IMHO. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/20/08 11:52 AM >>> From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a preference somewhere. On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: > Hello all, > > One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. > starting > with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get :) > > expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid > succession. > Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers
by Bill Schwab Dec. 20, 2008

Dec. 20, 2008

All I did was download the dev image, but you are probably correct about the OB tools. This was tried, fairly controversial, and quickly rejected on Dolphin some time back. It's fine until things get ugly, and can then end up tossing work in the trash. Being able to go straight to a debugger is great, but I think it is a poor choice for a default. The opportunity for a recursive meltdown increases dramatically, not to mention the performance hit if several try to open "all at once." Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> cdrick65(a)gmail.com 12/20/08 12:52 PM >>> > I never implemented the pre-debug window, because I hate this extra > click that I have to do every single time I get a debugger. +1 I have never found it interesting... moreover I often forget to close it, resize, select end then full debugger to resize again... > The pre-debug window could certainly be added, but I don't see any > benefit in doing so. In my opinion the pre-debugger is a remnant of > Smalltalk-80, where there was no full debugger yet. > > Lukas > > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 5:52 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse > <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> From my side this is not something intentional so may be this a >> preference somewhere. >> >> On Dec 20, 2008, at 5:20 PM, Bill Schwab wrote: >> >>> Hello all, >>> >>> One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. >>> starting >>> with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get >> >> :) >> >>> >>> expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid >>> succession. >>> Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? >>> >>> Bill >>> >>> >>> >>> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >>> University of Florida >>> Department of Anesthesiology >>> PO Box 100254 >>> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >>> >>> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >>> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >>> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- CÃ©drick _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Dec. 20, 2008

for archive Begin forwarded message: > From: Keith Hodges <keith_hodges(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Date: December 19, 2008 5:36:26 PM CEST > To: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > Subject: Re: could you sign the pharo license? > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> Because I would like to have a look at some of your code and I would >> like to avoid >> making mess. >> >> Stef > All my work is licenced FRFGPL > > FREELY RECEIVED FREELY GIVEN PUBLIC LICENSE > Version 1, December 2006 > > Copyright (C) 2006 Keith Hodges > > Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim or modified > copies of this license document, and changing it is allowed as long > as the name is changed. > > FREELY RECEIVED FREELY GIVEN PUBLIC LICENSE > TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR COPYING, DISTRIBUTION AND MODIFICATION > > 0. You just DO WHATEVER YOU WANT TO > > this is my own derivative of the WTFPL > > Keith >

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