- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] [update 2.0] #20316
by Marcus Denker Sept. 30, 2012

Sept. 30, 2012

20316 ----- Issue 6746: Failing Test: TestCaseTest.testAssertEqualsActualAndExpectedOrder http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6746 -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

1 0

Re: [Pharo-project] Fuel and Tanker in older Pharo images [WAS] Re: How to try Shapes and Gaucho?
by Fernando Olivero Sept. 29, 2012

Sept. 29, 2012

Cool! Thanks Mariano for the summary, and all the others for this much needed features! Looking forward to adopt such a process, to have a minimal Pharo image, customized to my needs. Fernando On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 29, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com<mailto:dionisiydk@gmail.com>> wrote: > 2012/9/29 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com<mailto:marianopeck@gmail.com>> > > > On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com<mailto:dionisiydk@gmail.com>> wrote: > Hello > > ss3 repo for Shapes and Gaucho closed for reading or maybe empty. > So is it possible to get it somewhere? maybe there is prepared image? > > Actually I gather migrate our applications to last Pharo and use latest achievemens like fuel and tanker. > > Hi. I don't want to go offtopic in the original thread so I opened this one. > Of course it is usually a good idea to migrate to latest stable Pharo release so that you don't stay with a very old image. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that Fuel DOES WORK in previous images. In fact, it works from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0. And Tanker right now works in 2.0 only by just because by default we use the new ClassBuilder. But this can be easily changed for those who want to use it in older versions. Anyway, Tanker is still a little bit green ;) For more details read my answer to this comment: http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/new-tanker-current-status/#comm… > > Hello and thank's for response. > > Actually I want use Tanker to deploy my applications with "bootstrap way" where only kernel minimal image existed and all application loaded at startup. > It will simplify delivering application updates to slow remote targets. I can just upload small tanker files and load it seamlessly because its really fast. > And without image saves no corrupt images due to something bad at middle of image save. > > Hi Denis. I want to say a couple of things about this. First, you are not the only one wanting this. In fact, that scenario is one of the reasons we are investing a lot of time in the infrastructure: > > 1) Pavel Krivanek has been working a lot in making the image more modular, being able to cleanly unload and reload packages. This was the first step. > 2) Jannik Laval continue that effort trying to remove lots of cyclic dependencies between packages. > 3) Guillermo Polito started to work in the bootstrap. He is now able to bootstrap images from scratch (contrary to Pavel's PharoKernel where he was unloading packages). > 4) Esteban Lorenzano is working on a new ConfigurationOfPharo that will let you take a kernel/bootstraped/minimal image and load just the packages you want. > 5) Camilo Bruni, Martin Dias, Guillermo Polito, and Toon Verwaest have been working in a new class builder based on layouts. The "old ClassBuilder" is really difficult to maintain, understand, fix, etc. When you load packages, the class builder takes an important role. Therefore, they were working in a new class builder, which, from my point of view, is way better, object-oriented, tested, etc. > 6) Martin Dias and Me were working in Tanker, a tool to export/import packages of code using Fuel without Compiler. > > So.....as you can see there is/was a lot of work going on related to what you need :) It is not 100% ready, but we are getting there. > > Cheers, > > > Best regards, > Denis > > > > > > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

4 3

[Pharo-project] Fuel and Tanker in older Pharo images [WAS] Re: How to try Shapes and Gaucho?
by Mariano Martinez Peck Sept. 29, 2012

Sept. 29, 2012

On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Hello > > ss3 repo for Shapes and Gaucho closed for reading or maybe empty. > So is it possible to get it somewhere? maybe there is prepared image? > > Actually I gather migrate our applications to last Pharo and use latest > achievemens like fuel and tanker. > Hi. I don't want to go offtopic in the original thread so I opened this one. Of course it is usually a good idea to migrate to latest stable Pharo release so that you don't stay with a very old image. Anyway, what I wanted to say is that Fuel DOES WORK in previous images. In fact, it works from Pharo 1.1 to 2.0. And Tanker right now works in 2.0 only by just because by default we use the new ClassBuilder. But this can be easily changed for those who want to use it in older versions. Anyway, Tanker is still a little bit green ;) For more details read my answer to this comment: http://marianopeck.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/new-tanker-current-status/#comm… > And of course I want vector graphics for user interface by athens. > And I very very excited about shapes which gives clean and powerfull > morphic replacement (Am I right?) > > But to understand amount of work for such big changes I should see shapes > livelly. I need code. > > Best regards, > Denis > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

3 5

[Pharo-project] [Seaside] Re: change n same words in browser with one action
by Chris Muller Sept. 29, 2012

Sept. 29, 2012

>> You should not expect that -- Pharo used to have it but it was removed >> in favor of a more mainstream editor look-and-feel -- so that it be >> would more attractive to new users. Command+J / Control+J are just >> two of several powerful code-editing capabilities Pharo originally >> inherited from Squeak, along with my other favorites Command+E = >> Exchange the last two selections and Command+[, (, {, or | = Surround >> the highlighted text with that bracket-type pair. (not sure if those >> are still there in Pharo). > > Now what would be really cool is to have a documentation about all > those, and make them easily > discoverable. I worked with Squeak long enough, and didn't saw > anything close to that. > I said that it is 'command-g' instead 'command-j' exactly because of > that, because you never know... > And for me it was always felt like: > - let user discover shortcuts by pressing random key combinations and > see what happens. > And then tell me, what are the chances that people will understand > what exactly cmd-j does without > reading documentation? In 99% of cases it will be 'oh.. what was just happen' .. > This is about "more attractive". > And if you hiding knowledge behind sealed doors, don't be surprised > that someone will come and build a new library with open doors, > replacing yours. You didn't look hard enough -- it's under the "help" menu. Squeak 3.0 is the earliest I have on my HD but.. yes, it was there then and its still there now. Ok, I know you just forgot we miss you too Igor. ;) I admire Pharo blazing new trails but notice a pattern in some of the "gold" feedback from Pharo customers which worth taking to heart. Like: http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2012-May/064702.html > This is, what i think, happens with shortcuts changes in Pharo, except > form those which was remapped. > >> Pharo favors _familiarity_ for new users somewhat at the cost of >> productivity for its experienced users. It somewhat resembles eclipse >> -- with pop-up dialogs and a seemingly "modal" philosophy. Squeak, by >> constrast, has kept pushing the "simple-but-powerful" philosphy of its >> IDE to near extremes. While it's less familiar for new uesrs, once >> learned, general navigation and editing require _far fewer_ gestures. >> > Another thing, is that i first time hear that pharo is in favor of > newcomers at expense of experienced users. > I am not involved in changes to key bindings / shortcuts, but i doubt > that people, who doing that, making changes having such strange aim. > I think they are focused on making it good for newcomers and > experienced users both. Otherwise i don't see much sense in doing this > at all, and would be first who will be against it. Ok, glad to hear that. I would rather have the best system possible than one with the most mainstream acceptance.

4 4

[Pharo-project] [update 2.0] #20315
by Marcus Denker Sept. 29, 2012

Sept. 29, 2012

20315 ----- Issue 6747: Unicode class has wrong CaseMapping http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6747 Issue 6696: Gofer Repository Improvements http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6696 Issue 5856: Add possiblity to skip a test http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=5856 -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

1 0

[Pharo-project] [update 2.0] #20314
by Marcus Denker Sept. 29, 2012

Sept. 29, 2012

20314 ----- Issue 6720: Improve Trait usage in Tools http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=6720 -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

1 0

Re: [Pharo-project] How to try Shapes and Gaucho?
by Fernando Olivero Sept. 29, 2012

Sept. 29, 2012

Hi Denis, I'm actively working on Shapes/Gaucho, but not having the time to finally polish it to release has held me back in doing so. The repos are closed for now, until i release them. Shapes is not "production" ready, unless you are willing to work on it. Meaning that Gaucho is the sole user for now. It's much more simpler than using Morphic though(at the expense of loosing some features, which were never used by the way). What it gives you is: 1) Vector graphics, its based on Athens. 2) Customizable shapes using a kind of CSS. 3) Shapes always deal with a local coordinate system, no matter were they're placed in the top/down hierarchy within the scene 4) simpler Event handling based on message passing (instead of MorphicEvents), a reified display and peripherals, 5) An non-overlapping scheme, with snowplowing. 6) No GLOBALS, such as World & ActiveHand. 6) etc... What's preventing me from releasing it now, is that the MultipleLinesTextEditor based on Cairo/Pango isnt 100% finished, so you can type and edit multiple lines of text, and methods. I'm working on it. Fernando On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Denis Kudriashov <dionisiydk(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hello > > ss3 repo for Shapes and Gaucho closed for reading or maybe empty. > So is it possible to get it somewhere? maybe there is prepared image? > > Actually I gather migrate our applications to last Pharo and use latest achievemens like fuel and tanker. > And of course I want vector graphics for user interface by athens. > And I very very excited about shapes which gives clean and powerfull morphic replacement (Am I right?) > > But to understand amount of work for such big changes I should see shapes livelly. I need code. > > Best regards, > Denis

2 1

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] Re: change n same words in browser with one action
by Fernando Olivero Sept. 29, 2012

Sept. 29, 2012

Hi, maybe in Pharo some of these keyboard shortcuts were removed (for now), but providing the same operations via pop-up menus doesn't make it a modal UI. One could argue that remembering and triggering keyboard shortcuts simply avoids showing the menu at all, at the expense of a big VI-like learning curve . The community behind Pharo does not want modes in the UI! Of course for power users, remembering tons of shortcuts might be better (not for me though), but there are plans to add default and customizable keybindings ( using the work of Guille Polito). Fernando On Fri, Sep 28, 2012 at 9:40 PM, Chris Muller <asqueaker(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> yes, exactly like this: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/900 >> >> Bert Freudenberg added the following: >> >> Tip: You do not have to perform a "find" for the "replace" to work. >> Just select a word you want to have replaced, overtype it with your >> new word, and hit (ctrl-j). Very handy for renaming variables. >> >> This would be perfect. > > You should not expect that -- Pharo used to have it but it was removed > in favor of a more mainstream editor look-and-feel -- so that it be > would more attractive to new users. Command+J / Control+J are just > two of several powerful code-editing capabilities Pharo originally > inherited from Squeak, along with my other favorites Command+E = > Exchange the last two selections and Command+[, (, {, or | = Surround > the highlighted text with that bracket-type pair. (not sure if those > are still there in Pharo). > > Pharo favors _familiarity_ for new users somewhat at the cost of > productivity for its experienced users. It somewhat resembles eclipse > -- with pop-up dialogs and a seemingly "modal" philosophy. Squeak, by > constrast, has kept pushing the "simple-but-powerful" philosphy of its > IDE to near extremes. While it's less familiar for new uesrs, once > learned, general navigation and editing require _far fewer_ gestures. >

3 2

Re: [Pharo-project] [Seaside] Re: change n same words in browser with one action
by Chris Muller Sept. 29, 2012

Sept. 29, 2012

> yes, exactly like this: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/900 > > Bert Freudenberg added the following: > > Tip: You do not have to perform a "find" for the "replace" to work. > Just select a word you want to have replaced, overtype it with your > new word, and hit (ctrl-j). Very handy for renaming variables. > > This would be perfect. You should not expect that -- Pharo used to have it but it was removed in favor of a more mainstream editor look-and-feel -- so that it be would more attractive to new users. Command+J / Control+J are just two of several powerful code-editing capabilities Pharo originally inherited from Squeak, along with my other favorites Command+E = Exchange the last two selections and Command+[, (, {, or | = Surround the highlighted text with that bracket-type pair. (not sure if those are still there in Pharo). Pharo favors _familiarity_ for new users somewhat at the cost of productivity for its experienced users. It somewhat resembles eclipse -- with pop-up dialogs and a seemingly "modal" philosophy. Squeak, by constrast, has kept pushing the "simple-but-powerful" philosphy of its IDE to near extremes. While it's less familiar for new uesrs, once learned, general navigation and editing require _far fewer_ gestures.

3 2

[Pharo-project] How to try Shapes and Gaucho?
by Denis Kudriashov Sept. 28, 2012

Sept. 28, 2012

Hello ss3 repo for Shapes and Gaucho closed for reading or maybe empty. So is it possible to get it somewhere? maybe there is prepared image? Actually I gather migrate our applications to last Pharo and use latest achievemens like fuel and tanker. And of course I want vector graphics for user interface by athens. And I very very excited about shapes which gives clean and powerfull morphic replacement (Am I right?) But to understand amount of work for such big changes I should see shapes livelly. I need code. Best regards, Denis

1 0