March 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] pharo-seed and pharo
by Marcus Denker March 3, 2012

March 3, 2012

On Mar 3, 2012, at 9:27 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > > On Mar 2, 2012, at 11:11 PM, Marcus Denker wrote: > >> >> On Mar 2, 2012, at 9:21 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>> >>> Ok. So I downloaded the first Pharo Core 1.4: >>> https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/28660/PharoCore-1.4-14000.zip >>> >>> but, I still do not know what packages to load. Is there an easy way to figure these ones out (and in particular the loading order)? >> >> >> It's not possible to turn 1.4000 into the current one by loading packages in one step. >> because there are lots of objects that need to be migrated... it's a living system. >> >> There was *a lot* of manual fiddling involved, even just from one step to the next. > > but can we try and see :) > If you have a PhD student... it's a nice topic. If just making updates faster is the goal, we should think about doing the update on a server and recording the changes applied. The can load just those, with the Doits needed at the right spot... Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

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Re: [Pharo-project] pharo-seed and pharo
by Marcus Denker March 3, 2012

March 3, 2012

On Mar 2, 2012, at 9:21 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: > > Ok. So I downloaded the first Pharo Core 1.4: > https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/28660/PharoCore-1.4-14000.zip > > but, I still do not know what packages to load. Is there an easy way to figure these ones out (and in particular the loading order)? It's not possible to turn 1.4000 into the current one by loading packages in one step. because there are lots of objects that need to be migrated... it's a living system. There was *a lot* of manual fiddling involved, even just from one step to the next. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

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[Pharo-project] pharo-seed and pharo
by Tudor Girba March 3, 2012

March 3, 2012

Hi, I believe everyone agrees that one important goal in Pharo is to get to a small code/kernel/seed. During the Pharo Sprint at Bern we saw that the only reason for now having a unified image is just a temporary convenience that stems from two things: 1. Until Pharo 1.3, the core team worked in the core image, and this was frustrating because they were missing proper tools 2. After 1.3, building a pharo image out of a seed image was perceived as being too long and not fitting for the process of integration It's clear that the core team needs development tools. However, we think that 2 can be actually quite cheap if the build starts from the latest seed, and not from the original seed of 1.4 as it currently seem to happen. If this would be fast, we could go back to having one seed image (I call it seed just to avoid confusion and wrong feelings, but you can call it anyway you want) out of which the Pharo distribution (like the current image is) is built. The core team would work on this distribution, and Jenkins would do the rest. By switching the distribution build to work with the latest seed, we can probably reduce the amount of build time to a couple of minutes (at least this is what we saw during a couple of quick tests). Regarding the flow of the integrator, we saw that actually, when multiple changes need to be integrated, you can base the second change on the image that already exists locally, without needing to wait until Jenkins finishes. I would be interested in providing help. So, what do you say? Cheers, Doru -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

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[Pharo-project] About stable and problem of high expectations. (Was: Re: [Bug Tracker] Issues tagged 1.3)
by Igor Stasenko March 3, 2012

March 3, 2012

First i'd like to make 1 thing clear, stable term used in two, completely different contexts, and it is easy to confuse: 1. stable as not crashing 2. stable as not evolving/developing The release are stable, first of all, in terms of 2. Not in terms of 1. Because there can be problems which were lying hidden etc etc. Of course one should try to get release meet both characteristics. Now about expectations. i wrote a long mail explaining this and that.. but then i decided to remove everything. Personally, I failing many expectations of many people. But it doesn't means that a) i don't want make things better b) i do it intentionally. yes, sometimes i do it intentionally. but then usually i letting those people know why i doing that. Second, what i did learnt using electronic communications is that when you got no response, it doesn't means that you completely ignored. In opposite to real life, when you say something face to face. Third. Put your anger towards fighting with bugs, not people who are you working with. -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

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[Pharo-project] Pharo 1.4 beta?
by StÃ©phane Ducasse March 3, 2012

March 3, 2012

Hi guys I would like to see Pharo 1.4 going beta = focus on bugs, less changes. Does it make sense? What are the key problems we should focus on? Stef

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Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] Re: Project ideas for GSoC, 7 days left!
by Eliot Miranda March 3, 2012

March 3, 2012

On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 12:38 PM, karl ramberg <karlramberg(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Make web browser plugin of Squeak work better on all platforms. > Get Etoys image to run on CogVM. > Karl, these are great suggestions. > > Karl > > > On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 9:36 PM, karl ramberg <karlramberg(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Port OpenQwaq video to Etoys > > > > Karl > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 9:17 PM, HernÃ¡n Morales Durand > > <hernan.morales(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> To dream is easy: > >> > >> -HDF5 (http://www.hdfgroup.org/HDF5/) support like PyTables or h5py for > >> Python > >> -Information Retrieval/Full Text Search package like Lucene > >> (http://lucene.apache.org/) > >> -A binding to R or SAS or SPSS > >> -Better or more semantic web support (see > >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Services_Resource_Framework#Implementations > ) > >> -An omnibrowser for OWL ontologies > >> -CSS template system > >> -Support of a Distributed Hash Table protocol like Pastry > >> (http://www.freepastry.org/) > >> -Workflow system with designer and plug-in architecture (see > >> http://www.taverna.org.uk/) > >> -Big data CSV parser plugin > >> -Plugin for fast approximate search in strings > >> > >> cheers, > >> > >> > >> > >> 2012/3/2 Janko MivÅ¡ek <janko.mivsek(a)eranova.si> > >>> > >>> Hi everyone, > >>> > >>> 7 days to deadline for ideas of this year GSoC! Please think about what > >>> would be a nice project for students to work and that way join our > >>> community. And yes, students are welcome to propose projects too! > >>> > >>> Let we "recycle" past project ideas too! Please review them and propose > >>> those still valuable. Or change the proposal to suit better. Here they > >>> are: http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas . > >>> > >>> Let me and Carla post GSoC related stuff only on Pharo, Squeak and VWNC > >>> mailing lists while for other let someone forward those mails there > >>> please. It is just too hard to post on 10+ mailing lists, you know... > >>> > >>> Past GSoC mentors please join the debate on special Smalltalk GSoC > >>> mentors list: http://groups.google.com/group/smalltalk-gsoc-mentors. > If > >>> you want to be mentor this year you are welcome to join that list too. > >>> > >>> Best regards > >>> Janko > >>> > >>> S, Janko MivÅ¡ek piÅ¡e: > >>> > Dear Smalltalkers, > >>> > > >>> > Let we apply this year again for the Google Summer of Code, which as > you > >>> > know is a Google's stipendium program for students to encourage them > >>> > working on open-source projects [1]. > >>> > > >>> > Ok, our first step as community is to collect ideas for possible > >>> > projects and to apply to the GSoC as an organization. Deadline is > next > >>> > Friday, so please hurry on with ideas. Just put them as reply to this > >>> > email or to admins directly and we will put them on our website [2]. > >>> > > >>> > Your project idea should be written as answers to these questions: > >>> > > >>> > Name > >>> > Level (Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced) > >>> > Possible mentor > >>> > Possible second mentor > >>> > > >>> > Description > >>> > Technical Details > >>> > Benefits to the Student > >>> > Benefits to the Community > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > See how such ideas look like in past: http://gsoc2010.esug.org/ideas > . > >>> > > >>> > Waiting for your ideas > >>> > Carla and Janko, your GSoC Admin team > >>> > > >>> > [1] http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012 > >>> > [2] http://gsoc2012.esug.org > >>> > > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Janko MivÅ¡ek > >>> Smalltalk GSoC Admin Team > >>> http://gsoc2012.esug.org > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> HernÃ¡n Morales > >> Information Technology Manager, > >> Institute of Veterinary Genetics. > >> National Scientific and Technical Research Council (CONICET). > >> La Plata (1900), Buenos Aires, Argentina. > >> Telephone: +54 (0221) 421-1799. > >> Internal: 422 > >> Fax: 425-7980 or 421-1799. > >> > >> > >> > >> > > -- best, Eliot

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[Pharo-project] Monticello Version Info
by Camillo Bruni March 2, 2012

March 2, 2012

I am still having a look at the Monticello implementation. Now coming from the git world, this seems very weird: Why does each Monticello version store the complete ancestor history? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Wouldn't it simply be enough to keep pointers to the immediate ancestors, and then lazily load and cache them? Where is the complete ancestry needed, besides diffing/merging? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The current setup implies that something like MCCacheRepository default loadVersionFromFileNamed: 'SLICE-Issue-5416--Improve-MC-version-loading-CamilloBruni.1.mcz' takes around 1.5 seconds to complete, whereas this could be done in a fragment of a second for most cases...

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[Pharo-project] Alien signature: first attempt
by Schwab,Wilhelm K March 2, 2012

March 2, 2012

Esteban, Will this work? Even if so, is there a better way to define it? longVoidStarLongRetInt: callbackContext sp: spAlien <signature: 'int (*) (long, void *, long)' abi: 'IA32'> ^callbackContext wordResult: (block value: (Alien newC:4) value: (Alien forPointer: (spAlien unsignedLongAt: 5)) value: (Alien newC:4) ) Bill ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Schwab,Wilhelm K [bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu] Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 12:15 AM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI on 1.3: compile fields thanks!!!!! ________________________________________ From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Esteban Lorenzano [estebanlm(a)gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 10:18 PM To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI on 1.3: compile fields you need to define a signature... not at home now, but wait 'til tomorrow and I'll send an example best, Esteban El 29/02/2012, a las 11:21p.m., Schwab,Wilhelm K escribiÃ³: > What does "cannot find callback signature" mean from #signature:block:? I'm stuck. > > > > > ________________________________________ > From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Esteban Lorenzano [estebanlm(a)gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 6:54 PM > To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI on 1.3: compile fields > > yeah... sorry about that > is a bug on FFI... I managed to worked around it for HPDF, for a customer's project... but of course is not a good and definitive solution. > > best, > Esteban > > El 29/02/2012, a las 8:37p.m., Schwab,Wilhelm K escribiÃ³: > >> This is gonna take a while... I had structs flying around as void* and was moderately happy. Nonetheless, your suggestion worked, provided I add a lot getHandle asInteger and change the void* to long :( >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________________ >> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Esteban Lorenzano [estebanlm(a)gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 6:23 PM >> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI on 1.3: compile fields >> >> I also found some problems using void* in linux... maybe you want to use long (which has same size)... I "fixed" my problems that way. >> >> yes... maybe we need to look at FFI to see why void* has problems some times, but well, that can help you atm (sorry for not having a better answer) >> >> Esteban >> >> El 29/02/2012, a las 8:11p.m., Igor Stasenko escribiÃ³: >> >>> On 1 March 2012 00:58, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >>>> Another glitch: is there any problem passing things as void*? I'm getting failure to coerce errors that did not arise before. >>>> >>> No idea. As you may suspect, i stopped using FFI/Alien once i got >>> NativeBoost toy to play with. >>> >>> Please file the issue, describing the problem. so we can look over it >>> and fix it. >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ________________________________________ >>>> From: pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr [pharo-project-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr] on behalf of Igor Stasenko [siguctua(a)gmail.com] >>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 5:51 PM >>>> To: Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] FFI on 1.3: compile fields >>>> >>>> On 1 March 2012 00:37, Schwab,Wilhelm K <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: >>>>> Does 1.3 by default not create field accessors? Why is that? I thought >>>>> nothing was happening. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Good question, i'd like to know the answer too. >>>> It is related to MC final 'installation' phase, >>>> where it initializing all classes. >>>> >>>> In NativeBoost i was also using >>>> >>>> noteCompilationOf: aSelector meta: isMeta >>>> "A hook allowing some classes to react to recompilation of certain selectors" >>>> >>>> but there was a big question, at which point this hook is triggered, >>>> and looks like some changes in MC stop triggering it/triggering at >>>> wrong time (not all methods get into a class/ class not initialized >>>> etc), >>>> which makes it not very useful. >>>> >>>> So i ended up creating a DNU handler on instance side, then on DNU i >>>> check if i have field accessors and if not, >>>> compile them on the fly. >>>> >>>> >>>>> Bill >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Best regards, >>>> Igor Stasenko. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Igor Stasenko. >>> >> >> >> > > >

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[Pharo-project] creating new projects on ss
by Usman Bhatti March 2, 2012

March 2, 2012

I'm not sure if its Friday evening fatigue that is hitting me or a change in the server policy, squeak server is not allowing me to create new projects and giving me this message: On this server, only the administrator can create new projects! Is there an alternative for creating projects? thanx usman

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Re: [Pharo-project] New IDE alternative (was Misc. newbie questions)
by Marcus Denker March 2, 2012

March 2, 2012

On Feb 26, 2012, at 11:24 AM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi hannes > > I tried to understand the purpose of your emails but I could not. > - So do you suggest that we all stop Smalltalk and move to javascript? > - What is your motivation? > - This is good for us to know that but then so what? > - Does it help us anyhow to make pharo better? > - Did you try to port the code to Squeak? > - Do you know if the global handling of coordinates have been changed? > We can spend our life looking why other people are doing or we can invent OUR future. > For the "Lets all just do JavaScript". There was a very, uhm , disappointed blog post by Gilad after they did the javascript implementation of NewSpeak... JavaScript is *not* a good implementation language for languages. Especially not if you want to do something new. If you build on top of JS, you will be very very contraint in what is possible... and the things *I* want to build in the future with Pharo are just impossible to do on top of javascript. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

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