- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

For future version of Spotter
by stepharo March 7, 2016

March 7, 2016

Add a menu doing GTSpotter cleanUp. GTSpotter dontShowPreview Stef

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[ANN][Bloc] February report
by Aliaksei Syrel March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

Hi all Today is sunday meaning that we should make a monthly report on what happened in Bloc in February. - BlLinearLayout (stack layout + proportional layout) - Uses gtExample for examples and tests: BlLinearLayoutExamples - Has extensive class docs and method docs. Still some methods are missing docs. - Has "book" chapter (more info below) - Integration with OS-Window - Finally works, really fast. - Events do not work as expected because of https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/17757 - Unified shape scaling behaviour. - By default shape scales to fill BlElement's extent. - Supports different resizing strategies. - Started "book" chapter - Added documentation to various parts of Bloc - Still there are a lot of places not covered with docs. - Also we auto-generate "book" chapters from bloc example classes. In attachment you can find linear-layout and not finished shape chapter. *Future* - Bloc presentation on PharoDays2016 <http://pharodays2016.pharo.org> - 01 April 2016 - 11:05â11:25 Bloc: Towards a vector-based GUI - Working on - Grid layout (all rules above apply, docs + tests + chapter) - Bloc tests - Documentation Cheers, Alex

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Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :)
by Ben Coman March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 5:05 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > >> On 05 Mar 2016, at 19:57, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: >> >> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 2:10 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>>> On 05 Mar 2016, at 18:22, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Stef, >>>> >>>> On Mar 5, 2016, at 12:10 AM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>> >>>>> You probably leave in a protected environment but I do not live in the same. >>>>> Did you check numPy recently or R? momemtum? >>>>> Do you think that people do not know how to count? >>>>> In 1980 my students were not even born, so how can it be better than >>>>> python, java, c#, lua, ... >>>>> >>>>> Do you think that it makes me happy to see my old friends leaving our language and do node.js. >>>>> Seriously. >>>>> Why do you blame me? Frankly tell to leave Pharo and I will leave. I can tell you. >>>>> I think that I need a break in my life in this moment so it would be a good opportunity. >>>>> Because if each time I do something to improve the wealth and visibility of our system >>>>> I get such kind of feedback then may be this is the time to do something. >>>>> Afterall I may be wrong. >>>>> Seriously if you think that I'm not doing a good job and you want to stay with old friends >>>>> just let me know. but if I stay then do not tell me that I'm an asshole that does not want to >>>>> promote smalltalk. >>>> >>>> I do not blame you. I am offended by Pharo disavowing the Smalltalk name. I am offended when people state Pharo is not Smalltalk. I want to refute false assumptions about the name Smalltalk, such as the equating it with cobol. Instead of taking it personally why don't you address my points about older programming languages whose names (AFAICT) are not perceived negatively? >>>> >>>> >>>> I support this community and am excited to participate in it. I admire and respect your efforts, StÃ©phane, in developing, organizing and supporting this community. But that does not mean I will keep quiet about something I profoundly disagree with and think is wrong. And that thing is to deny Pharo is Smalltalk. >>>> >>>> And I do this not because I am a zealot, but because words meaning are important, because to understand each other we should call a spade a spade, and because I am grateful for and delighted by this thing called Smalltalk, and I will not support taking credit away from it. Ruby is inspired by Smalltalk. Pharo is the real thing. >>> >>> Pharo was started because a certain situation existed in the Squeak community that blocked progress for a group of people that had another vision. Pharo was started and exists to fulfil that grand vision, a vision that is clearly rooted in Smalltalk history, but goes beyond that. >>> >>> If you want to focus on words, your sentence 'Pharo is Smalltalk' is not so innocent or politically free, as you know very well, even if it looks like factually correct (it is BTW). >>> >>> We say it differently because of what I just wrote, because we want to be free of backwards compatibility (if necessary), because we want to have a larger future than maintaining something old (even though we absolutely respect and acknowledge it). Yes, it is a bit of a play of words, but not without reason. >>> >>> Here is one writeup that tries to describe the same idea: >>> >>> http://www.tudorgirba.com/blog/pharo-is-pharo >>> >>> But the best documents are the Pharo vision documents. >> >> >> The counter argument is that there was Smalltalk-71, -72, -76, -78, >> -80. Some of these were distinctly different from the last. So >> Smalltalk was an *evolving* system. Why can't it be so again!? and >> be Smalltalk-Renew, Smalltalk-Next, Smalltalk-Evolved, Smalltalk-16, >> Smalltalk-P16 or Smalltalk-P5 "Pharo 5". >> >> As long as the emphasis is on Pharo being an *evolution* of Smalltalk >> (which is not in doubt), I think we cover all bases - stimulating the >> interest of newcomers and/or detractors of old, as well as Smalltalk >> stalwarts without being constrained by the past. As much as we might >> want to promote Pharo being separate from Smalltalk (which I believe >> was a reasonable strategy to establish identity at the time of the >> fork from Squeak), Smalltalk is always going to be there for anyone >> who scratches beneath the surface and they end up thinking "Oh its >> *just* Smalltalk" anyway. So this remains the "elephant in the room", >> *subtly* undermining of our marketing. Its the sort of weakness that >> can be better to hit head on as "Smalltalk-Evolved" (since "Evolved" >> is a term with positive connotations in the gaming / sci-fi >> communities.) >> >> cheers -ben > > Really, Ben, are you suggesting we stop calling it Pharo ? > Come on, let's be serious. Thats not a serious question. Pharo could only be called Pharo. Now just to be clear, I sit in the middle on this. I never experienced the constraint felt before the fork from Squeak, and on the flip side I have no big history with Smalltalk. To me, Pharo is just Pharo and there is nothing to stop us developing the system how we like. However I see the attempt to distance Pharo from past problems by branding with a fresh coat of paint false economy. People *will* scratch beneath the surface and the only way to address their perceived problems with Smalltalk is to address them - one by one. The essence of dispute is: on the one hand... A1. Future development without outside constraint A2. Avoid the perception of being an antiquated system and on the other hand... B1. Stronger recognition of our Smalltalk lineage I just don't see these as incompatible. B1 might be addressed in a small way by a simple changing in language from "inspired by" to "derived from". I think its a premature optimisation to be concerned that this might impinge on A1. The Pharo "way" is well established. For A2, I read Stef's reply "we want that people that learned smalltalk in the 90 do not discard Pharo because..." and understand my view of this is limited from my corner of the world. But I contend that while you may get these people in through the door, when they look around their next thought is "Hey, this *is* Smalltalk" and all their old prejudices reassert and they walk away without a further thought. I just feel its better overall for us to be upfront and say "Historically Smalltalk didn't do XX very well, and here is how we've fixed it!" That way, their old prejudice is actually what hooks them to come have a look. To use a strange analogy, its like those superstars who screw up really badly, then > > What makes Pharo different is this: you (and so many others) came to this community as a stranger (for us), started contributing in various ways, we saw that you were serious/good and we accepted your work, letting you work on very fundamental code that had the potential to break everything. There is simply no way that you could have done or be allowed to do that in any other Smalltalk, let alone the place where we forked from. It is as simple as that. That is why it is called Pharo, why we say Pharo is yours. I'm glad to have had the opportunity to contribute. I'm very glad that Pharo is all that it is, but this openness is more about Pharo's vision and mission and less about its roots. But you should know, I came to Pharo because I was looking for Smalltalk (from the whisper of a taste 15 years ago.) If it wasn't for that, (to my detriment) I might never have arrived. Perhaps this colours my perspective. cheers -ben > >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>> Le 5/3/16 02:18, Eliot Miranda a Ã©crit : >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 12:08 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> SciPharo? Not so great news from my POV. >>>>>>> What is so much pharo specific in this library? >>>>>>> Is Smalltalk scientific community large enough for yet another split? >>>>>> Split of what? Let us be tagged with a name of 1980 and die in peace. Yes this looks like a >>>>>> smart move. >>>>>> There are just Python and R and Javascript around (not talking about ruby and swift) >>>>>> so this is a great move. We are not the cobol of object-oriented programming!! >>>>>> >>>>>> When I read sentiments like this it makes me want to leave the community. I find it so offensive that the Pharo community uses Smalltalk but wants to distance itself. It feels like theft or massive disrespect for the inventors of the language, or a complete lack of gratitude. >>>>>> >>>>>> C is older than Smalltalk and no one says "C is the cobol of low-level imperative languages". List is much older than C but no one wants to rename Lisp because it is perceived as old. >>>>>> >>>>>> Smalltalk is a beautiful name, carefully chosen to differentiate and identify the system as different, not arrogant, not hieroglyphic. Further, Smalltalkl /is/ different and distinctive materially. Why anyone would be ashamed of that incredible heritage and pervasive influence is beyond me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Offended, >>>>>> Eliot > >

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Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :)
by Nicolai Hess March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

Thank you StÃ©phane Ducasse, thank you Eliot Miranda, and all other people of this community. I appreciate what all you are doing (as a teacher / developer / user / supporter) for <enter your favourite name for this great exceptional computing environment> and it is a pleasure for me to work with you. (this is all I have to say to this topic) Thanks ! And go one :-) nicolai

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GTInspector feedabck
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

Hi guys I'm doing some videos 3 or 4 on GTInspector (I love it). Now I did Smalltalk globals inspect because I wanted to have a large object tree. I tried different ways to filter the presented list but they all failed. - when I typed stupidly Point I got a DNU (so the search should have a exception wrapper) - then after reading the ghost text I each = #Point So I will not show this aspect and just focus on the others. Stef

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[Bloc] content vs contents
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

Hi native english speaker what is the best content or contents? Stef

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Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :)
by Yuriy Tymchuk March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

You know people, you should get a life. The call was to Pharoers to improve Numerical Methods in Pharo. I understand that someone is pissed that Pharo is evolving, but I donât understand why you keep replying to them. Uko > On 06 Mar 2016, at 14:31, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > From: Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :) > Date: 6 March 2016 at 14:31:24 GMT+1 > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Cc: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > Reply-To: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com>, Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > > > > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :) > Date: 6 March 2016 at 14:30:03 GMT+1 > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Reply-To: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > > > Amen! > > My lastname is St-Jean, like it or not I'm closer to Ducasse than Hollansworth! > > I discovered Smalltalk with ObjectWorks on AIX : I'm closer to Pharo than Python, C, C++, C#, Ruby, Snobol, Dart, Go or any other language... Like it or not, I'm closer to Smalltalk than Java, COBOL or any other retarded programming language... > > I've been working as a consultant in Smalltalk since the 90s. I don't care : VW, VAST, VSE as long as it's Smalltalk! I'm closer to Pharo than I am to anything else (except Modula-2). > > This stupid war is sooooooo stupid! > > If you know what the DNU acronym means, you're a Smalltalker. Period. > > Pharo can go its own way (whether I like it nor not), but it's still Smalltalk! > > These guys (the Pharoers, and StÃ©phane Ducasse) have made *tremendous* steps forward. Like "how come nobody ever did that for Smalltalk except James Robertson" ? > > I like Pharo. I fell in love with VW 2.5. > > Vous Ãªtes si belles, vous toutes! > > I love Smalltalk! > > > > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > > From: Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Sent: Sunday, March 6, 2016 7:00 AM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :) > > Sorry guys but I dont think this is non sense because you may be coding in Pharo and Smalltalk for a long time, but as a beginner I was confused by this, and to this day I am still confused why Pharo is not calling itself a modern implementation of Smalltalk. Even in Pharo by Example there was no mention at all the Pharo is a Squeak fork, nothing, now there is (few week before) , guess who added it. No mention about Squeak in our website whatsoever. Why ? Do we just fork and forget about them ? > > Also this whole guilt about the so called "failure" or "death" of smalltalk is hilarious. Smalltalk was never popular and we certainly wont be with Pharo, because in the end its very unfamiliar and most coders dont like going outside their comfort zone. Personally I am fine with that but this is why I use Pharo to get outside my comfort zone and think outside the box, but I dont kid myself, I belong to a tiny minority. > > I am sorry if you feel that we derail the thread, but some of us feel very uncomfortable by some people trying to mislead newcomers that Pharo will at some point brake away from Smalltalk heritage when we all know that wont happen for the following reasons 1) Smalltalk is an awesome language and its failure to become popular has nothing to do with the IDE and the language and more to do with lack of libraries, documentation and third party tool support plus of course the all important familiarity b) Most likely a ton of Squeak and older Smalltalk code will remain in Pharo because none sane enough would removed code that has stood the test of time, is well designed and works c) Even if you have a tiny sense or realism you will realize that the reason why people use Pharo is because is a modern implementation of smalltalk, trying to connect with modern technologies but at same time remaining a smalltalk in the core. > > And finally lets take into account that all languages are evolving. > > I was coding C++ till 1996 and was very frustrated with the language, manual memory management, inflexible type system, horrible GUI libraries (MFC). Now I learn C++ 11 which means an almost fully dynamic type systems (see auto , templates etc) , automatic memory management (smart pointers), vast array of greatly design GUI and graphics libraries (QT, Unreal, GTK etc). In 20 years C++ has become night and day, sure still much more ugly than Pharo but far, far better . Did we stop calling it C++ ? > > I totally agree, that this discussion arises few time per year and in the end we dont agree. But I dont post here to make you change your mind, I know people rarely do that, I post here because I want to make crystal to begineers viewing this mailing that for me and many others: > > Pharo IS Smalltalk, Pharo IS a Squeak fork, Pharo is a modern implementation that tries to push forward but respects its heritage and pays credit to it. > > > Saying that if this numpy variant library intends to target only Pharo then it makes more sense to call it SciPharo. > > On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 12:30 PM Volkert <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de <mailto:volkert@komponentenwerkstatt.de>> wrote: > +100 > > > On 06.03.2016 09:48, stepharo wrote: >> Why Pharo is not smalltalk and will not be Smalltalk >> >> - First because we make it to free us from the past. >> >> - In the future we want that people that learned smalltalk in the 90 do not discard Pharo because >> >> - "what killed smalltalk was that we could not work well in team" >> - "smalltalk oh it does not scale" >> - "I cannot edit my code with emacs" >> - "oh back in 1993 I got lecture and the system took 10 min to boot on our sparc (I got this story yesterday)" >> - I did not get how you work in team >> - "with Smalltalk you cannot save your code in svn" >> - "Smalltalk is monolithic" >> - "you are in a cage you cannot interact with the outside world" a guy organising OOPSLA >> - "Smalltalk what a dated name! bavardage: tu programmes en bavardage, donc les resultats ne doivent pas >> etre si super que cela...." >> >> I do not care that these statements are right or wrong. >> I do not care that people are ignorant. And yes with some education we can show that they are wrong. >> There are in the mind of people that got in touch with Smalltalk. >> No more no less. >> >> So may be Smalltalkers should read book about marketing in general. >> >> So you are stuck in your history and I'm dreaming about the future: and the future is Pharo not Smalltalk. Face it. >> There will be no renewal of Smalltalk. Pharo is the chance for Smalltalk to exist in 2050. >> The future is much more important that the history. >> >> You do not make people dreaming telling them that back in the 1940 you add to cross the street to fetch water. >> >> >> >> >>> left blank on purpose >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 5/3/16 18:22, Eliot Miranda a Ã©crit : >>>> Stef, >>>> >>>> On Mar 5, 2016, at 12:10 AM, stepharo < <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> You probably leave in a protected environment but I do not live in the same. >>>>> Did you check numPy recently or R? momemtum? >>>>> Do you think that people do not know how to count? >>>>> In 1980 my students were not even born, so how can it be better than >>>>> python, java, c#, lua, ... >>>>> >>>>> Do you think that it makes me happy to see my old friends leaving our language and do node.js. >>>>> Seriously. >>>>> Why do you blame me? Frankly tell to leave Pharo and I will leave. I can tell you. >>>>> I think that I need a break in my life in this moment so it would be a good opportunity. >>>>> Because if each time I do something to improve the wealth and visibility of our system >>>>> I get such kind of feedback then may be this is the time to do something. >>>>> Afterall I may be wrong. >>>>> Seriously if you think that I'm not doing a good job and you want to stay with old friends >>>>> just let me know. but if I stay then do not tell me that I'm an asshole that does not want to >>>>> promote smalltalk. >>>> >>>> I do not blame you. I am offended by Pharo disavowing the Smalltalk name. I am offended when people state Pharo is not Smalltalk. I want to refute false assumptions about the name Smalltalk, such as the equating it with cobol. Instead of taking it personally why don't you address my points about older programming languages whose names (AFAICT) are not perceived negatively? >>>> >>>> >>>> I support this community and am excited to participate in it. I admire and respect your efforts, StÃ©phane, in developing, organizing and supporting this community. But that does not mean I will keep quiet about something I profoundly disagree with and think is wrong. And that thing is to deny Pharo is Smalltalk. >>>> >>>> And I do this not because I am a zealot, but because words meaning are important, because to understand each other we should call a spade a spade, and because I am grateful for and delighted by this thing called Smalltalk, and I will not support taking credit away from it. Ruby is inspired by Smalltalk. Pharo is the real thing. >>>> >>>>> Stef >>>>> >>>>> Le 5/3/16 02:18, Eliot Miranda a Ã©crit : >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 12:08 PM, stepharo < <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>stepharo(a)free.fr <mailto:stepharo@free.fr>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> SciPharo? Not so great news from my POV. >>>>>>> What is so much pharo specific in this library? >>>>>>> Is Smalltalk scientific community large enough for yet another split? >>>>>> Split of what? Let us be tagged with a name of 1980 and die in peace. Yes this looks like a >>>>>> smart move. >>>>>> There are just Python and R and Javascript around (not talking about ruby and swift) >>>>>> so this is a great move. We are not the cobol of object-oriented programming!! >>>>>> >>>>>> When I read sentiments like this it makes me want to leave the community. I find it so offensive that the Pharo community uses Smalltalk but wants to distance itself. It feels like theft or massive disrespect for the inventors of the language, or a complete lack of gratitude. >>>>>> >>>>>> C is older than Smalltalk and no one says "C is the cobol of low-level imperative languages". List is much older than C but no one wants to rename Lisp because it is perceived as old. >>>>>> >>>>>> Smalltalk is a beautiful name, carefully chosen to differentiate and identify the system as different, not arrogant, not hieroglyphic. Further, Smalltalkl /is/ different and distinctive materially. Why anyone would be ashamed of that incredible heritage and pervasive influence is beyond me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Offended, >>>>>> Eliot >>>>> >>> >> > > > > > > >

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[Bloc] ing versus er
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

wrapContent self resizing: BlLayoutWrapContentResizing new I will rename such code to be wrapContent self resizer: BlLayoutWrapContentResizer new BlLayoutWrapContentResizer is a strategy (and object responsible of doing something) and as such it is much better to use er and ing. Comment if needed. Stef

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Call about Numerical Methods in Pharo :)
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

Hi guys I met Didier Besset and we had a great hacking session and discussions with Serge Stinckwich. Didier would like to help Pharo and the numerical part of it. ***Big thanks*** Didier. We would like to do several things: - Work on "Hows to" The numerical methods in Pharo is good but the gap between us and the math is too large :) so the idea is to have a series of "how to ..." - histomgram (simple, based on distribution) - Improve the SciPharo/NumPha (previously SciSmalltalk) library This morning we started to implement a ComponentPrincipalDecomposition by combining two of the objects available in SciPharo. Then we started to enhance the distributions to make sure that we can plug other distribution for having controlled random number. - Do a public call to know what is missing for you: this is this mail :) Didier would like to work on concrete cases. I love that attitude So tell us :) Hernan ?? Alex: ?? pvalue? better distribution? Vincent: covariance? CPA? Philippe: times series Serge R frames? Sami: Better random number and various distributions? - Organise a two day lectures with practices on concrete case in September with a recording session. Either at IRD Bondy or Lille. - Make sure that the Numerical Method book will get on lulu :) with a better cover and title :) Stef

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Starting to add class comment and test on BlElements
by stepharo March 6, 2016

March 6, 2016

Hi blockers and alek in particular, the code is cool and I like that each method is commented. I'm starting to write a real class comment that we will be able to use in a documentation. But I cannot run the example so this is difficult to write tests. So Alek how do you know that you make progress? Where should I start? I thought BlElement was the starting point. Side note: Now I wonder if we want to have all the assert: May be yes and we should have an opal plugin to turn them off after. allChildrenDo: aBlock "Evaluate aBlock for all my children gathered recursively (excluding the receiver). aBlock must not be nil. aBlock must accept exactly one argument" self assert: aBlock isNotNil. self assert: aBlock argumentCount = 1. self childrenDo: [ :child | aBlock value: child. child allChildrenDo: aBlock ] Stef

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