- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Product Brand Pharo
by Bill Schwab Sept. 23, 2008

Sept. 23, 2008

Gary, There are two topics here: (1) allowing ourselves and others to easily retrofit tools into the various menus; (2) building a fast and elegant GUI framework. BookMorphs are a (not terribly good) implementation attempts at the latter. For the newbie (or even us trying to get something done), it can be very helpful to have tools offered in the right places. Cleaner is better of course, but the "user" in the case is more interested in whether the tool works than in how the tool works. Set out to write your own helpful wizard, and elegance is appreciated. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> gazzaguru2(a)btinternet.com 09/23/08 7:16 AM >>> I remember doing a "Wizard" framework in VisualAge... shudders... Still, nice to have standardised support for such things rather than ad-hoc BookMorphs (for example). Regards, Gary. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Schwab" <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> To: <pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Product Brand Pharo > Markus, > > Based on the discussion, I started noting how long it takes my images to > load; a splash screen might be in order; I also fear that by the time VM > loads and the GUI is able to draw itself, it is no longer needed :( > Still, I'd add it to the milestones, but probably late in the process. > > About help, I am not very sympathetic on the "no documentation" front. > Someone seeking to join us will quickly find tutorials, and can post > questions. Dolphin's MVP framework almost invariably had the newbie > expressing pain and confusion, followed by "why was this so hard last > week???" Conversely, the MS Office IDL for Automation has LOTS of > "help" - almost all of it useless. The message (pun intended) needs to > be "this is not trivial to learn, but very worth your time." Ensuring > that good tutorials are linked from our Wiki would be a nice gesture. > > Wizards in the IDE - that's a very good idea, and Dolphin helps it along > through the IDE extension framework, which is little more than events > triggered at the right time, off of each tool's class and giving the > needed instances for the code to make the desired changes. Dolphin's > view resources, and our lack of them, would require some adaptation. > However we do it, it would be a nice addition. The idea is to do > _something_ that allows each of us to provide hooks into the IDE w/o > having to alter the code. That way, building a new image and updating > an existing one will not destroy the extensions. > > Bill > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: [Pharo-project] First pharo-dev with limited package set
by Bill Schwab Sept. 23, 2008

Sept. 23, 2008

Ok, but only if you allow a choice of which one to use. I am a HUGE fan of Shout, but I generally do not want a workspace trying to colorize my notes to myself. If I end up with enough code that the syntax is not clear, it probably belongs in a class and in a package or change set - at least I try to do that. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> adi(a)netstyle.ch 09/23/08 5:42 AM >>> Hi Damien, Thanks, looks good! Question: Does this include Universes? It's not listed below but I see the menu item (which does not work because of a deprecation warning). I think we need Universes mainly because Seaside will be packaged with Universes soon, and being able to easily load Seaside is a key requirement for Pharo. Another thing we need to look at (and I planned to do this) is the open menu. With all the additional packages in the dev version its even worse than before. For example there are 3(!) items for opening a workspace: Workspace Workspace (without colourisation) Shout Workspace There ought to be just one, and in the right place. Cheers, Adrian On Sep 23, 2008, at 09:52 , StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > This sounds good. > Now we should be able to see the overrides of ecompletion. > > Stef > > On Sep 23, 2008, at 8:20 AM, Damien Cassou wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I've just released the first pharo-dev which contains a limited >> package set. See http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Packages for the >> list of packages we want in Pharo. >> >> You can download the image at >> https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/7404/pharo0.1-10074dev08.09.2.zip >> . >> >> Here is the list of packages included in this release: >> >> AST version 160 >> eCompletion version 0.90 >> OB-Enhancements version 0.203 >> OmniBrowser version 0.416 >> OmniBrowser-Morphic version 0.52 >> OmniBrowser-Refactory version 1.0 >> OmniBrowser-Regex version 0.9.1 >> OmniBrowser-Standard version 0.346 >> Pharo packages version 0.3 >> Refactoring Core version 5 >> RoelTyper version 0.60 >> Shout version 3.15-tween.72 >> ShoutWorkspace version 1-tween.2 >> VBRegex version 1.9 >> >> -- >> Damien Cassou >> Peter von der AhÃ©: Â«I'm beginning to see why Gilad wished us good >> luckÂ». (http://blogs.sun.com/ahe/entry/override_snafu) >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: [Pharo-project] Product Brand Pharo
by Bill Schwab Sept. 23, 2008

Sept. 23, 2008

Markus, Based on the discussion, I started noting how long it takes my images to load; a splash screen might be in order; I also fear that by the time VM loads and the GUI is able to draw itself, it is no longer needed :( Still, I'd add it to the milestones, but probably late in the process. About help, I am not very sympathetic on the "no documentation" front. Someone seeking to join us will quickly find tutorials, and can post questions. Dolphin's MVP framework almost invariably had the newbie expressing pain and confusion, followed by "why was this so hard last week???" Conversely, the MS Office IDL for Automation has LOTS of "help" - almost all of it useless. The message (pun intended) needs to be "this is not trivial to learn, but very worth your time." Ensuring that good tutorials are linked from our Wiki would be a nice gesture. Wizards in the IDE - that's a very good idea, and Dolphin helps it along through the IDE extension framework, which is little more than events triggered at the right time, off of each tool's class and giving the needed instances for the code to make the desired changes. Dolphin's view resources, and our lack of them, would require some adaptation. However we do it, it would be a nice addition. The idea is to do _something_ that allows each of us to provide hooks into the IDE w/o having to alter the code. That way, building a new image and updating an existing one will not destroy the extensions. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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Re: [Pharo-project] Halt once; workspace(?) menu
by Bill Schwab Sept. 23, 2008

Sept. 23, 2008

Stef, The class can be more flexible than what is in Pharo, and FWIW, is not built into the system. Since it does not need to be built-in, that's a plus in my thinking. Not much of a difference, I must admit. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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[Pharo-project] UTF support in Linux
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Sept. 23, 2008

Sept. 23, 2008

Begin forwarded message: > From: Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)freudenbergs.de> > Date: July 9, 2008 12:20:52 AM CEDT > To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the most basic > questions about Squeak." <beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > Subject: Re: [Newbies] UTF support in Linux? > Reply-To: "A friendly place to get answers to even the most basic > questions about Squeak." <beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> > > > Am 08.07.2008 um 23:09 schrieb smith02243: > >> >> Hi all, >> >> In the Linux VM, when I try to input, via paste or the right alt >> combination, non-ascii characters, like 'Ã¶' or 'Ã©' for example, >> Squeak >> merely shows 'o?' or 'e?' I researched into this and accordingly >> chose a >> font that supports UTF-8 and set the locale and VM command line >> options >> appropriately: >> >> export LC_CTYPE="en_IE.UTF-8" >> locale-gen en_IE.UTF-8 >> (...which claims that locale is upto date...) >> sudo dpkg-reconfigure -plow locales >> (...which outputs en_IE.UTF-8... done among other things....) >> squeak -encoding UTF-8 -textenc UTF-8 -pathenc UTF-8 >> Squeak3.10.2-7179-basic.image >> >> Now when I try to input the aforementioned characters I encounter a >> debug >> message: "Error subscript is out of bound." >> >> However, I have set Squeak's language to Spanish and then German, >> and the >> characters display perfectly well in the menus. Although, the same >> cannot be >> said for the any files with non-ascii characters in the file >> dialogue. So, >> it seems it's an input problem. >> >> Anyone with any ideas? Thanks. > > This has only been addressed recently, and may not have found its > way into a release yet. > > You need the very latest Squeak VM (3.10-1 at least). It supports > Unicode keyboard events (which are passed to the image as UTF32). > > To make use of these events your image needs to be using > UTF32InputInterpreter. Evaluate > > ActiveHand keyboardInterpreter > > to see the currently used one. It can be changed by patching > Latin1Environment class>>inputInterpreterClass. > > I don't know if this is in any official release yet, or scheduled > for one. > > Some relevant change sets from the Etoys image seem to be > > http://tinlizzie.org/updates/etoys/updates/1713UnicodeInput1-yo.cs > http://tinlizzie.org/updates/etoys/updates/1714UnicodeInput2-yo.cs > http://tinlizzie.org/updates/etoys/updates/1925unixLatin1Input-yo.cs > http://tinlizzie.org/updates/etoys/updates/1935unicodeFallback-bf.cs > > - Bert - > > > _______________________________________________ > Beginners mailing list > Beginners(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/beginners >

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[Pharo-project] Cannot load PolyMorph/UIEnhancements
by Norbert Hartl Sept. 23, 2008

Sept. 23, 2008

I tried to load the Polymorph package in a fresh pharo image and I didn't succeed. I tried pharo 10044, 10070 and 10074 image. And I tried loading from universes as well as via monticello. The result is the same: When the Loading progress bar appears it freezes after 10% of the bar is full. It doesn't matter if I load it with 64bit or 32bit (binary) vm. I had no trouble loading the same into a 3.10.2 squeak image. How do I debug the action while it is showing the progress bar? thanks in advance, Norbert

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[Pharo-project] Smalltalk in research :)
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Sept. 23, 2008

Sept. 23, 2008

http://interstices.info/jcms/c_39747/programmer-un-jeu-d-enfant There is also a podcast http://interstices.info/jcms/c_34709/podcast-interstices Stef

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[Pharo-project] Product Brand Pharo
by Torsten Bergmann Sept. 23, 2008

Sept. 23, 2008

Markus wrote >One question: is the splash-screen really needed? Adrien wrote: >I don't see the point of a splash screen. I completely agree that it is useless in the sense of loading screen showing the progress for the standard pharo image. Maybe it makes more sense for the "slower" TrueType image where a progress bar currently shows the font updates. But this is not possible since the Squeak VM does not (yet) support an updating splash progress in the native splash window driven by Smalltalk code. But a splash can also be done "image side only" anyway. But that's not the point. I suggested to provide a splash screen more from the branding/marketing point of view - even if it is technically useless. At least I want to know what others think about it. A splash screen typically shows the Logo and some version information and people rember/recognize/identify the software through that. Some applications have an option to disable the splash or show it only on the first startup. Eclipse for instance uses a slightly modified splash screen theme for each yearly full release (Europa, Ganymede, ...) - nice idea since the user knows which one is started when the disk is full with different versions. Sure we should drop the splash screen from the technical point of view - but it would be a nice idea to have the welcome screen of each Pharo release with a slightly modified theme to see if it is a core, developer image, ... We dont have to clone native apps/Java IDE's - but at least we can learn a little bit about branding/marketing and how good design can attract more people. Take another example - will you find a Smalltalk IDE with good looking Wizards these days? >From the Smalltalkers point of view (knowing about #subclass: messages) it's technically useless and will bloat the image - but I've seen many newbies blaming Smalltalk to be that complicated the first time they just click around and search for the Class/Package wizard. Squeak is also not very supportive if one needs help - there is a help menu but no real help/documentation. That does not mean we should have the splash screen or spend the whole day implementing Wizards - but at least we should discuss and think about what the first impression for others/non Smalltalkers will be and how we can help them to take first hurdles and enjoy the power of Smalltalk... Bye Torsten -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/wasistshortview.php?mc=sv_ext_mf@gmx

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[Pharo-project] Halt once; workspace(?) menu
by Bill Schwab Sept. 23, 2008

Sept. 23, 2008

A couple of quick thoughts based on the Polymorph/TT image: (1) Halt-once looks like it is built into the image as a mode. It is a VERY useful concept, but Dolphin has long had a goodie that provides the feature as a class, used something along the lines of the following: abandonHopeAllYeWhoRaiseEndlessWalkbacksHere self someUnfortunateConditionDetected ifTrue:[ Once do:[ self halt. ]. " Once reset. " ]. Any takers? I did not write it, but I think we will find it licensed in a friendly way, or it could be easily reconstructed, if not improved by having registered instances, allowing independent conditional breakpoints, and all in code, or as I like to say "done in the language, not TO the language." (2) The extended search sub-menu. At the really picky level (ignore if there is ANY problem with this), it might be nicer to pop out a submenu vs. jumping to another menu. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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Re: [Pharo-project] Re: Re: [ANN] Demo with both Truetype +Polymorph
by Bill Schwab Sept. 22, 2008

Sept. 22, 2008

Marcus, I'm fairly certain the problem is in Redmond. It would not be the first thing they botched. I'm just annoyed with myself for not fingering them sooner. By all means though, newbies will encounter it, so protecting Windows from itself is probably a good move. Is Pharo going to adopt the one-click structure? On Windows, I do not much care. The VM "installs" trivially, and shortcuts are cheap. Shortcuts are not much more expensive on Linux, or maybe I haven't learned enough about how to skip steps on Linux. The VM is a little more trouble on Linux, but nothing I can't handle, and I'll gain familiarity as I go. All that said, since there is something that is brain-dead simple on the main platforms, I'm not too proud to use it ;) I do not much care whether we use it or not. If the plan is to do so, I can save myself some hassle sooner rather than later, but whatever you guys want to do is fine by me. Thanks! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> denker(a)iam.unibe.ch 09/22/08 3:56 PM >>> On 22.09.2008, at 20:57, Andrew Tween wrote: > > "Bill Schwab" <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote in message news:s8d7aeb8.028@AN9.ANEST.UFL.EDU > ... >> Got it. My basic algorithm for finding problems usually starts with >> "what could Microsoft have done to screw this up?" I faltered. In >> this >> case, MS could have made a mockery of the file names in the >> archive, and >> that is apparently just what they did. I do not care for 7-Zip's >> user >> interface, but the engine works. It magically understood the archive >> (what's that word again, standards???<g>), unzipped all the files, >> and >> now everything works. Very impressive BTW. > > That rings a bell. > I had the same problem with the early Sophie releases. > The Windows unzipper tried to create a folder and a file with the > same name. > > I reported the problem to the Sophie team, and with the most recent > releases of Sophie, Windows can unzip it ok. > Might be worth finding out how they got around the problem. > I think the problem is the Mac: the zip creates hidden files (starting with a dot, I think) for storing the resource fork of the old macos filesystem. I should create the zip differently... Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- denker(a)iam.unibe.ch http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~denker _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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