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Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers
by Bill Schwab Dec. 22, 2008

Dec. 22, 2008

Sounds good. And in that case (OB Tools at the end of the list), I urge serious attention to having a notifier. Learning from history, and all that. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> adi(a)netstyle.ch 12/21/08 5:31 PM >>> Here is an answer for "what is Pharo?" There will be two images: "Pharo-Core": the image in which the development of Pharo takes place "Pharo": the image to develop your application with (= "Pharo-Core" + IDE tools [1]) "Pharo" is the image that will be officially shipped (packaged as a one-click image). "Pharo-Core" on the other hand will be important for deployment as it has a low memory footprint. Cheers, Adrian [1] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/Packages On Dec 21, 2008, at 15:46 , Bill Schwab wrote: > Lukas, > > You are correct to question "what is Pharo?" We cannot hope to ensure > that everything anyone ever does with Pharo will work - those kinds of > promises are made only during political campaigns :) But, note the > recent discussion of package integrity. It should be as easy as > possible to install anything one wants, but the things that Pharo > invites the user to install should be solid. Certainly, the > development > tools should fall into that category. > > For example, I have a love/hate relationship with the RB, but I > certainly hope to see it integrated into Pharo. But given a choice > between a polished presentation of the RB commands and a stable > system, > I'll go for the stable system. We should have both. > > Bill > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >>>> renggli(a)gmail.com 12/21/08 3:07 AM >>> >> My understanding is that the OB tool set is the presumptive choice >> for >> Pharo - unless I'm wrong, that makes this a Pharo related topic, if > only >> to reopen the choice in light of your position. > > I don't know which is the official Pharo image? There is a plain one > without any extras loaded that the Pharo team uses for their releases, > and then there is one with additional tools loaded by Damien that also > contains OB-Tools. > >> Do as you want, but >> Object Arts had this idea and very quickly decided the simpler > notifier >> had a very essential role. They left the option, activated the > notifier >> by default, and strongly warned against deactivating it. That was > based >> on being bitten by the kinds of concerns I have documented here. > > Don't get me wrong. Feel free to add this preference and the > additional dialog, but don't expect me to do it: > > http://mail.wiresong.ca/pipermail/ob-dev/2008-August/000580.html > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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[Pharo-project] Fwd: javascript traits implementation
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Dec. 22, 2008

Dec. 22, 2008

:) Begin forwarded message: > From: "Joey Hurst" <jhurstus(a)gmail.com> > Date: December 22, 2008 7:36:57 AM CEST > To: schaerli(a)iam.unibe.ch, oscar(a)iam.unibe.ch, ducasse(a)iam.unibe.ch, wuyts(a)iam.unibe.ch > , black(a)cse.ogi.edu > Subject: javascript traits implementation > > Nathanael, Oscar, Stephane, Roel, and Andrew, > > I recently implemented traits in the JavaScript programming language > based on the descriptions in a number of your research papers. If > you're interested, the code is available under an open source > license and hosted at: http://code.google.com/p/jstraits/ > > I've posted some extended quotes from your paper "Traits: A > Mechanism for Fine-grained Reuse" as documentation on the website > linked above. I wanted to make sure that's ok with you all. The > quotes are properly attributed and link back to the original paper. > > Also, this is a bit of a stretch, but I would love to get feedback > from any of you on my implementation, especially with regards to > fidelity between my implementation of traits and your conception of > traits. > > Thanks for your research on this topic. The traits papers were all > very helpful, and the concept itself seems to be very useful. > > -Joey Hurst

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Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers
by Bill Schwab Dec. 21, 2008

Dec. 21, 2008

Lukas, You are correct to question "what is Pharo?" We cannot hope to ensure that everything anyone ever does with Pharo will work - those kinds of promises are made only during political campaigns :) But, note the recent discussion of package integrity. It should be as easy as possible to install anything one wants, but the things that Pharo invites the user to install should be solid. Certainly, the development tools should fall into that category. For example, I have a love/hate relationship with the RB, but I certainly hope to see it integrated into Pharo. But given a choice between a polished presentation of the RB commands and a stable system, I'll go for the stable system. We should have both. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> renggli(a)gmail.com 12/21/08 3:07 AM >>> > My understanding is that the OB tool set is the presumptive choice for > Pharo - unless I'm wrong, that makes this a Pharo related topic, if only > to reopen the choice in light of your position. I don't know which is the official Pharo image? There is a plain one without any extras loaded that the Pharo team uses for their releases, and then there is one with additional tools loaded by Damien that also contains OB-Tools. > Do as you want, but > Object Arts had this idea and very quickly decided the simpler notifier > had a very essential role. They left the option, activated the notifier > by default, and strongly warned against deactivating it. That was based > on being bitten by the kinds of concerns I have documented here. Don't get me wrong. Feel free to add this preference and the additional dialog, but don't expect me to do it: http://mail.wiresong.ca/pipermail/ob-dev/2008-August/000580.html Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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[Pharo-project] Issue: 423, tiny cleanup
by Michael Roberts Dec. 21, 2008

Dec. 21, 2008

http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=423 Tiny method removal. thanks, Mike

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Re: [Pharo-project] Parsing problem
by Bill Schwab Dec. 21, 2008

Dec. 21, 2008

Stef, Just out of curiosity (and to tell me how excited to get<g>), what will the state of the system after these changes? Will _ be allowed in method names? In class names? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/21/08 4:55 AM >>> Hi gwenael Today I want to integrate your changes since I thought that you gave us the code of the methods but fixed and not just the selectors. Now this list is long and I do not want to do it by hand. Could publish a slice in the pharoInbox with all the code changed? If you cannot do it right now tell us how we can proceed. You can do two slices one for [:e and one for _ -> := Stef On Dec 18, 2008, at 5:05 PM, Gwenael Casaccio wrote: > Hi, > > I've discussed with Stephane and may be we can fix all the methods > that have : > _ instead of := > or some methods have [ : myArg ... ] instead of [ :myArg .... ] > > So we can use a parser that strictly check that we respect grammar. > There is in this mail an attach file that contains the list of the > classes and > methods that are not corrects. > > Cheers, > Gwenael Casaccio > > > > <parsingerrors.txt.zip>_______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers
by Bill Schwab Dec. 21, 2008

Dec. 21, 2008

Lukas, My understanding is that the OB tool set is the presumptive choice for Pharo - unless I'm wrong, that makes this a Pharo related topic, if only to reopen the choice in light of your position. Do as you want, but Object Arts had this idea and very quickly decided the simpler notifier had a very essential role. They left the option, activated the notifier by default, and strongly warned against deactivating it. That was based on being bitten by the kinds of concerns I have documented here. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> renggli(a)gmail.com 12/20/08 6:33 PM >>> Sorry, but I think nobody understands: The "issue" reported has absolutely nothing to do with Pharo, but with the extra package OB-Tools that Damien decided to include with his development images. There is no option to enable or disable the pre-debugger, and I won't add one either: <http://mail.wiresong.ca/pipermail/ob-dev/2008-August/000580.html>. If you don't like OB-Tools you either don't load the package or select a different toolset by evaluating "ToolSet askForDefault". Lukas On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:11 AM, Bill Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > That would be better than the current situation, but, among other > questions I'm probably not going to think of, it might be easy to decide > how many debuggers are open when the error occurs, but how many are > trying to open? Maybe a shared queue would suffice. Anyway, I get a > vote, and it's in favor of notifiers; if there is further a preference > to skip that step, that's fine by me. > > Bill > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >>>> pennell.david(a)gmail.com 12/20/08 4:52 PM >>> > So only open one and recognize eecursive UHE and do something clever. > Opening an infinite # of any kind of window sucks. > > -david > > On Dec 20, 2008, at 2:58 PM, "Bill Schwab" <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > wrote: > >> Stef, >> >> Under ordinary circumstances, it's ok, but OA tried this and then >> quickly decided it was a bad idea. Imagine a budding recursive >> chain of >> errors; the extra load of opening the debugger can prevent a rescue >> that >> might be possible given a lightweight notifier. >> >> Bill >> >> >> >> >> >> Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. >> University of Florida >> Department of Anesthesiology >> PO Box 100254 >> Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 >> >> Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu >> Tel: (352) 273-6785 >> FAX: (352) 392-7029 >> >>>>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/20/08 2:37 PM >>> >> ahh now I understand because I'm often working on pharo core and I >> could not really understand >> what was the problem. >> >> Now indeed what is wrong with getting just the debugger? assuming the >> same error is raised? >> stef >> On Dec 20, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> >>> wrote: >>>> I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window >>>> (the small one) and not the full debugger. >>> >>> I guess Bill is using the Dev-Image of Damien with OB-Tools loaded. >>> >>> Lukas >>> >>> -- >>> Lukas Renggli >>> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers
by Bill Schwab Dec. 21, 2008

Dec. 21, 2008

That would be better than the current situation, but, among other questions I'm probably not going to think of, it might be easy to decide how many debuggers are open when the error occurs, but how many are trying to open? Maybe a shared queue would suffice. Anyway, I get a vote, and it's in favor of notifiers; if there is further a preference to skip that step, that's fine by me. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> pennell.david(a)gmail.com 12/20/08 4:52 PM >>> So only open one and recognize eecursive UHE and do something clever. Opening an infinite # of any kind of window sucks. -david On Dec 20, 2008, at 2:58 PM, "Bill Schwab" <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> wrote: > Stef, > > Under ordinary circumstances, it's ok, but OA tried this and then > quickly decided it was a bad idea. Imagine a budding recursive > chain of > errors; the extra load of opening the debugger can prevent a rescue > that > might be possible given a lightweight notifier. > > Bill > > > > > > Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. > University of Florida > Department of Anesthesiology > PO Box 100254 > Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 > > Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu > Tel: (352) 273-6785 > FAX: (352) 392-7029 > >>>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/20/08 2:37 PM >>> > ahh now I understand because I'm often working on pharo core and I > could not really understand > what was the problem. > > Now indeed what is wrong with getting just the debugger? assuming the > same error is raised? > stef > On Dec 20, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > >> On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> >> wrote: >>> I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window >>> (the small one) and not the full debugger. >> >> I guess Bill is using the Dev-Image of Damien with OB-Tools loaded. >> >> Lukas >> >> -- >> Lukas Renggli >> http://www.lukas-renggli.ch >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: [Pharo-project] Notifiers
by Bill Schwab Dec. 20, 2008

Dec. 20, 2008

Stef, Under ordinary circumstances, it's ok, but OA tried this and then quickly decided it was a bad idea. Imagine a budding recursive chain of errors; the extra load of opening the debugger can prevent a rescue that might be possible given a lightweight notifier. Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr 12/20/08 2:37 PM >>> ahh now I understand because I'm often working on pharo core and I could not really understand what was the problem. Now indeed what is wrong with getting just the debugger? assuming the same error is raised? stef On Dec 20, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 6:45 PM, Adrian Lienhard <adi(a)netstyle.ch> > wrote: >> I don't quite understand. When I do "1 foo" I get a notifier window >> (the small one) and not the full debugger. > > I guess Bill is using the Dev-Image of Damien with OB-Tools loaded. > > Lukas > > -- > Lukas Renggli > http://www.lukas-renggli.ch > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Dec. 20, 2008

Hi john Gwenael told that: SystemImage current getSystemAttribute: 1 returns well the image name SystemImage current getSystemAttribute: 2 does not return the other arguments passed Apparently this is working under linux. Then apparently when he launches the vm from the command line he cannot click but the mouse scrolling works. I asked to send a report but he is away. So sorry for the fuzzyness of my report. I prefer to report is than to forget. He will complement it if you need more info Stef

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[Pharo-project] Notifiers
by Bill Schwab Dec. 20, 2008

Dec. 20, 2008

Hello all, One change I do not like is that errors bring up a debugger vs. starting with a notifier. Beyond a "we fear change" <g> reaction, it can get expensive if things are bad enough to create errors in rapid succession. Is there a preference I can set to get the previous behavior? Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029

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