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Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions
by Sven Van Caekenberghe April 3, 2015

April 3, 2015

> On 03 Apr 2015, at 15:57, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > Date: 3 Apr 2015 15:53:56 CEST > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > Reply-To: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions > > > Kilon, > > I can perfectly understand that "not everything has to be in the image" and that, ultimately, someone has to maintain that code. The only problem I have with the removal of that theme is that more than 55% of users are running some flavor of Windows. It's not as if someone would ask for an OS/2 or a Motif UI theme! There are *LOTS* of people on Windows still ! There is no such thing as *one* Windows look (or version), there are many: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows#Usage_share We simply cannot maintain them, nor do we want to. Note that we do not maintain any other platform specific look&feels. > ----------------- > Benoit St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > From: kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2015 9:25 AM > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions > > > > > "The point is, every piece of code needs to be written and maintained which takes time and energy from other activities." > > > I completely agree with you. I have zero issues of main pharo developers kicking out libraries that are not so much used by pharo users. Those libraries are perfectly capable of existing as third party. > > I also love the plan to make pharo modular, remove libraries from inside and make it easy to install. This way each one of us can easily make an image tailor made for his/her needs. Each pharo user is an individual with individual needs. > > Installing libraries is dead easy with the Configuration Browser , including their dependencies , just one click away. > > Of course that leaves whos going to maintain that stuff. I agree with Marcus here, "you want it in pharo , code it".The theme support in Pharo is very powerful , I know because I created my own custom blue theme and a tool to allow easy customization of theme colors with zero coding (Nireas). I expected that by now Nireas would be replaced by another way more powerful theme manager but it has not. Why ? Not because my theme manager is very good, but because the community is just too small. I love using my blue theme and fits perfect to my taste and needs ;) > > In the end no code can be more personal than the code you create. > > There is no need for everything to exist inside the image , great things can exist outside too. All it needs people who really care about pharo by coding for it. > > > > >

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[pharo-project/pharo-core] ad5e24: 40594
by GitHub April 3, 2015

April 3, 2015

Branch: refs/heads/4.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: ad5e24c4e2de21b16deccb51c4876f804d372e97 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/ad5e24c4e2de21b16deccb51… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2015-04-03 (Fri, 03 Apr 2015) Changed paths: A Nautilus.package/extension/AbstractGroup/instance/asNautilusItemPath.st M Polymorph-Widgets.package/TickDialogWindow.class/README.md M Polymorph-Widgets.package/TickDialogWindow.class/instance/display/openInWorld.st R ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script593.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script594.st R ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update40593.st A ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update40594.st M ScriptLoader40.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st Log Message: ----------- 40594 15278 Filtering on a Dynamic Group throws a DNU https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15278 15295 TickDialogWindow open invokes not existing method https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15295 http://files.pharo.org/image/40/40594.zip

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[pharo-project/pharo-core]
by GitHub April 3, 2015

April 3, 2015

Branch: refs/tags/40594 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

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Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions
by kilon alios April 3, 2015

April 3, 2015

Not me I used to be a windows only user for over a decade and I was always have been wondering why the close /max/min are on the right side when menus start from the left. So when I finally decided to convert to Macos it was a welcomed change and still is. Now you can ask me after 8 years being a MacOS users how I feel about the way mac windows maximise and you wont hear nice things even now that they offer full screen options. I am not a creature of habit apparently, If I don't like something the first minutes chances are that I wont like it 2 decades either. Sometimes I change my mind, but it is rare. Really, really rare. On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev < pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > To: Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr>, Pharo Development List < > pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Cc: > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:37:41 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions > It's not so much about the Windows look (whether it's Win98, Win 2K, Win > XP, Win Me, Win 8, Win Whatever). Every Windows user *expects* to have the > Close, Maximize & Minimize buttons at the upper right of the Window. > > It might look like a silly detail but try swapping the buttons of a Mac > user to the right and wait a few seconds before he complains! ;) > > ----------------- > Benoit St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > *To:* Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com>; Pharo Development List < > pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > *Sent:* Friday, April 3, 2015 8:28 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions > > > On 03 Apr 2015, at 14:11, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev < > pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > *Date: *3 Apr 2015 14:08:03 CEST > *From: *Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > *Reply-To: *Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > *To: *Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > *Subject: **Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions* > > > 3 quick things : > > 1) How can I get the Windows theme (W2K) that was available in Pharo 3 > (it's no longer there in Pharo 4.0 Beta). Having the close, maximize & > minimize buttons to the left of every window is VERY annoying for Windows > users! > > Windows 2k is 16 years old. We can not maintain a museum of old windows > looksâ¦ it just makes no sense (at all. At allâ¦ I donât even think how > someone can think that we should!). > Keep in mind that nobody uses it (but you, I guess), so it will for sure > be broken in subtle waysâ¦ > > We need to use it where it makes sense. A windows 2000 look is not one of > these things. > > > > 2) Am I the only one annoyed by the fact that the Collection class still > holds on to 2 class variables (one of them being an instance of Random, the > other a mutex) for the sole purpose of accommodating the #atRandom & > #atRandom: methods ? Even worse, the Integer class' implementation of > #atRandom references the Collection class to use that random instance! In > other words, Integer>>#atRandom --> Collection>>#randomForPicking --> > Random ! I've always been a fan of the "mind your own business" approach. > Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have the Random class provide a > default instance (a singleton) whenever other classes need such an object > instead of crippling the code with class variables and singleton instance > all over the place? > > > The system is very large. I think it is fundamentally wrong to assume that > something like this (Design level things) will be magically fixed if there > was no discussion, no issue tracker entry, no nothing. > > Why do you think that this will âfix itself magicallyâ? I would really > like to know your thought process behind thisâ¦ is there something that > makes you think that a release process could catch > this? How? > > Marcus > > > >

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Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions
by Sven Van Caekenberghe April 3, 2015

April 3, 2015

> On 03 Apr 2015, at 14:11, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > 2) Am I the only one annoyed by the fact that the Collection class still holds on to 2 class variables (one of them being an instance of Random, the other a mutex) for the sole purpose of accommodating the #atRandom & #atRandom: methods ? Even worse, the Integer class' implementation of #atRandom references the Collection class to use that random instance! In other words, Integer>>#atRandom --> Collection>>#randomForPicking --> Random ! I've always been a fan of the "mind your own business" approach. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have the Random class provide a default instance (a singleton) whenever other classes need such an object instead of crippling the code with class variables and singleton instance all over the place? This always annoyed me big time. Not just for what you said, but also because the access protection should not be there at all.

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In Debugger: block variables nil
by Stefan Marr April 3, 2015

April 3, 2015

Hi: While debugging the beautiful method below, I noticed that the debugger shows data1 to be `nil`, while it actually has a proper value. That is, the pane on the right bottom shows the wrong value. When inspecting `data1` within the source code pane, it is correctly shown in the inspector. Is this a known issue? Should I file a bug? Best regards Stefan createWorker: identity priority: priority work: work state: state | data | data := RichWorkerTaskDataRecord create. self createTask: identity priority: priority work: work state: state function: [:work1 :word | | data1 | data1 := word. RichObject NoWork == work1 ifTrue: [self wait] ifFalse: [data1 destination: (RichObject HandlerA = data1 destination ifTrue: [RichObject HandlerB] ifFalse: [RichObject HandlerA]). work1 identity: data1 destination. work1 datum: 1. 1 to: 4 do: [ :i | data1 count: data1 count + 1. data1 count > 26 ifTrue: [data1 count: 1]. work1 data at: i put: $A asInteger + data1 count - 1]. self queuePacket: work1]] data: data -- Stefan Marr INRIA Lille - Nord Europe http://stefan-marr.de/research/

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Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions
by Aliaksei Syrel April 3, 2015

April 3, 2015

On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev < pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > Every Windows user *expects* to have the Close, Maximize & Minimize > buttons at the upper right of the Window. Don't speak for every Windows user ;) A lot of them have buttons at the upper left corner in the countries with right-to-left script (28 languages) :) Cheers, Alex â

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Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions
by Marcus Denker April 3, 2015

April 3, 2015

> On 03 Apr 2015, at 14:11, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > Date: 3 Apr 2015 14:08:03 CEST > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > Reply-To: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions > > > 3 quick things : > > 1) How can I get the Windows theme (W2K) that was available in Pharo 3 (it's no longer there in Pharo 4.0 Beta). Having the close, maximize & minimize buttons to the left of every window is VERY annoying for Windows users! > Windows 2k is 16 years old. We can not maintain a museum of old windows looksâ¦ it just makes no sense (at all. At allâ¦ I donât even think how someone can think that we should!). Keep in mind that nobody uses it (but you, I guess), so it will for sure be broken in subtle waysâ¦ We need to use it where it makes sense. A windows 2000 look is not one of these things. > 2) Am I the only one annoyed by the fact that the Collection class still holds on to 2 class variables (one of them being an instance of Random, the other a mutex) for the sole purpose of accommodating the #atRandom & #atRandom: methods ? Even worse, the Integer class' implementation of #atRandom references the Collection class to use that random instance! In other words, Integer>>#atRandom --> Collection>>#randomForPicking --> Random ! I've always been a fan of the "mind your own business" approach. Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have the Random class provide a default instance (a singleton) whenever other classes need such an object instead of crippling the code with class variables and singleton instance all over the place? > The system is very large. I think it is fundamentally wrong to assume that something like this (Design level things) will be magically fixed if there was no discussion, no issue tracker entry, no nothing. Why do you think that this will âfix itself magicallyâ? I would really like to know your thought process behind thisâ¦ is there something that makes you think that a release process could catch this? How? Marcus

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Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions
by Tudor Girba April 3, 2015

April 3, 2015

Hi, Thanks for the feedback. Given that all listed points are negative, does it mean that there was nothing positive about Pharo 4? :) Cheers, Doru On Fri, Apr 3, 2015 at 2:11 PM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-dev < pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Cc: > Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2015 12:08:03 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions > 3 quick things : > > 1) How can I get the Windows theme (W2K) that was available in Pharo 3 > (it's no longer there in Pharo 4.0 Beta). Having the close, maximize & > minimize buttons to the left of every window is VERY annoying for Windows > users! > > 2) Am I the only one annoyed by the fact that the Collection class still > holds on to 2 class variables (one of them being an instance of Random, the > other a mutex) for the sole purpose of accommodating the #atRandom & > #atRandom: methods ? Even worse, the Integer class' implementation of > #atRandom references the Collection class to use that random instance! In > other words, Integer>>#atRandom --> Collection>>#randomForPicking --> > Random ! I've always been a fan of the "mind your own business" approach. > Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to have the Random class provide a > default instance (a singleton) whenever other classes need such an object > instead of crippling the code with class variables and singleton instance > all over the place? > > 3) I'm having a few "Could not find disk drive" errors on Windows XP ( > never had that error with Pharo 3 and I've been using it every day since it > came out). Am I the only one? I ran all SUnit tests and the VM crashed > "real bad". Do you guys need logs/dumps/errors on the console ? > > ----------------- > Benoit St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

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Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 4 Beta, first impressions
by Sean P. DeNigris April 3, 2015

April 3, 2015

Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list wrote > 1) How can I get the Windows theme (W2K) that was available in Pharo 3 > (it's no longer there in Pharo 4.0 Beta).Â Having the close, maximize & > minimize buttons to the left of every window is VERY annoying for Windows > users! http://forum.world.st/FogBugz-Case-Issue-10346-Morphic-Remove-W2K-Theme-tt4… If you check the issue to see which update the above was integrated, maybe you can file it out from the previous update and port it to Pharo 4.0 ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-4-Beta-first-impressions-tp4817257p4817271.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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