November 2016 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Accessing Virtual machine internal?
by Alexandre Bergel Nov. 7, 2016

Nov. 7, 2016

Hi! Is there a way to get access to the VM internals? For example the size of the method cache and the number of JIT-compiled methods? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

3 2

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] About balkanisation
by Esteban Lorenzano Nov. 7, 2016

Nov. 7, 2016

> On 7 Nov 2016, at 11:28, Dale Henrichs <dale.henrichs(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: > > > > On 11/7/16 4:52 AM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> btw this is pharo-dev discussion, redirecting there. >> >> Esteban >> >>> On 7 Nov 2016, at 08:50, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> We are developing Icebergâ¦ and I know is not enough :) >>> Which âunifying toolsâ are you referring ? > The main unifying tool is a Metacello Project Browser (or something like the tODE project list). > > You have a nice tool with the CatalogBrowser (modulo BaselineOf support) ... but you know that already:) but once you load a Project into the image with the CatalogBrowser it sort of disappears ... > > There needs to be a way to see the _projects_ are loaded in the image ... right now you can see the package loaded into the image, and you can see the dirty packages, but the package is at too low a level > > From the project browser you should be able to commit a project --- which saves all of the dirty packages in the project --- in one commit for a git project --- all of the dirty packages written in one operation for mcz packages ... > > This project browser can provide the same set of services for an mcz project (ConfigurationOf) or a filetree project (BaselineOf): > - save > - load -- this is a bit more complicated to explain (I tried at the Metacello Dr. talk, but more discussion is needed) > - diff -- project level diff over a collection of packages > - commit log -- For ConfigurationOf, list the commit history of the Configuration. > For a BaselineOf list the commit log for the git repository > > The workflow at the project level is not that different between Mcz and Filetree, so it is straightforward to work with â¦ this is what is provided by icebergâ¦ it still needs some work, but this is precisely what is supposed to do :) (and btw, this is why I disagree with Thierry some mails below). > > The unification comes because you can use one metaphor (project) to work with both Mcz and Filetree ... the underlying implementation will ultimately... > > The next layer of unified tools is when you look at version history, for a method, you need to provide the ability to view the git commit history for the method (if stored in git) or the image history ... git commit hisotry can be provided at the project/package/class/method ... whereever possible the equivalent mcz/git service should be provided so that the two systems are on an even par â¦ also, this is supposed to be provided by iceberg. > > The Monticello Browser and Iceberg GUI's don't go away, because it is often necessary to do work at the package level, but I think that putting focus on the project is the key ingredient to success for integrating git â¦ Iceberg is not package-oriented. It just show repositories/packages/classes/methodsâ¦ this is a good way to do it and I do not thing anything is lost like this. You need to take a second look at Iceberg :) > > Since git repos are persistent on disk and will be shared ... it is important that there be a way for developers to easily access the git repos for projects that have been cloned locally but not yet loaded in the image itself ... I am really struggling with getting how important this point as this is the also a point that ties a Catalog Browser and Project Browser together this is something to thinkâ¦ I do not get what catalog browser can do here (but yes, a way to browse local repositories needs to be provided). > > I've been using this approach for several years now and once you have the tools and can see at a glance what's "going on in your image" it is fun to work in a mixed environment ... all of this frustration that is bubbling on the list is largely due to not having these missing tools and underlying support --- I think â¦ I do not think we are so far from your vision. I think you did not get it Iceberg rightâ¦ please, take a second look :) nowâ¦ is true that now everything you say is already doneâ¦ but this is general orientation :) Esteban ps: all of this is *clearly* not pharo-users but pharo-dev discussion, letâs move there. >>> >>> I have followed very close your TOdE developmentâ¦ in a moment I was planning a migration of it for pure-pharo, justâ¦ lack of time as always and then later we started iceberg. > Yes, I have intended to do a port of tODE to Pharo, but of time is the killer :) >>> now, we are in the process of defining a process ;) who works for pharo and is the moment to build the bridges we need, but in general I think that staying "with a foot in two boatsâ can just work during a very short lapse of time, after that, the stream continues going and if you do not finish your jump into one of the boats you will be very fast in the water. > Yes but the two boat environment will last years ... it has taken almost 5 years for filetree to start to be used regularly ... and with the Metacello Project Browser approach the transition will not be nearly as painful, besides I think that the project-centric tools set is required when work with git.... >>> >>> What I mean is that we can help any transition, but at the end there is no way of having a ânice, coexistingâ ecosystem: we will have one OR the other, or something that does not works at all, but we will not have seamlessly one AND the other (which does not means people using monticello will be forced to use git tools or vice-versa, just that you will need to chose oneâ¦ right now many (many for real) of our problems come from the attempt of keeping our git support behaving as regular monticelloâ¦ > As I say, I think that monticello/filetree can be abstracted away at the Metacello Project Browser level ... a commit of dirty packages writes all the dirty packages for the project in the appropriate repository ... BaselineOf are filetree and ConfigurationOf are mcz ... it doesn't take a whole lot of code to smoothly handle both projects --- as I've said, I have code in tODE that can be looked at for the key trickery and then re-implemented within Pharo without too much trouble ... > > Then the choice does not have to be made between supporting ConfigurationOf and BaselineOf as both are supported ... eventually a developer may choose to build an image that does not include ConfigurationOf and Monticello support --- but both are needed for at least the next several years > > >>> and that way of doing has a limit. A limit I think we already passed. >>> >>> Anyway, if you can list what you think we will need for the transition, I will be very glad to see what we can do :) > the presentation that I made last Wednesday really covers the most critical things that I think are required ... Metacello Project Browser and load specs are the big ones ... presumably a Project Browser/code browser that allows you to read code at the project level to augment the existing package level code browsers with the commit history integrated at project/package/class/method level ... project level diff tool -- multi-package diffs in one window ... and a git merge tool that does a three-way merge within the image ... > > Dale >

1 0

why sparta depends on Taskit?
by stepharo Nov. 7, 2016

Nov. 7, 2016

why sparta depends on Taskit? Since I cannot load it I cannot try to understand. I find strange that a graphical canvas depends on a concurrent task management system. I tried to follow the instruction given by glenn and it failed. So so far I could not see any recent versions of Bloc. I do not understand why the image produced by the jenkins job crashes my vm. Stef wget -O - http://get.pharo.org/60+vm | bash ./pharo Pharo.image config http://www.smalltalkhub.com/mc/Pharo/Bloc/main ConfigurationOfBloc --install=development just failed yesterday for me.

4 15

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] About balkanisation
by Esteban Lorenzano Nov. 7, 2016

Nov. 7, 2016

btw this is pharo-dev discussion, redirecting there. Esteban > On 7 Nov 2016, at 08:50, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > We are developing Icebergâ¦ and I know is not enough :) > Which âunifying toolsâ are you referring ? > > I have followed very close your TOdE developmentâ¦ in a moment I was planning a migration of it for pure-pharo, justâ¦ lack of time as always and then later we started iceberg. > now, we are in the process of defining a process ;) who works for pharo and is the moment to build the bridges we need, but in general I think that staying "with a foot in two boatsâ can just work during a very short lapse of time, after that, the stream continues going and if you do not finish your jump into one of the boats you will be very fast in the water. > > What I mean is that we can help any transition, but at the end there is no way of having a ânice, coexistingâ ecosystem: we will have one OR the other, or something that does not works at all, but we will not have seamlessly one AND the other (which does not means people using monticello will be forced to use git tools or vice-versa, just that you will need to chose oneâ¦ right now many (many for real) of our problems come from the attempt of keeping our git support behaving as regular monticelloâ¦ and that way of doing has a limit. A limit I think we already passed. > > Anyway, if you can list what you think we will need for the transition, I will be very glad to see what we can do :) > > Esteban > >> On 7 Nov 2016, at 06:30, Dale Henrichs <dale.henrichs(a)gemtalksystems.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On 11/6/16 1:12 PM, Tudor Girba wrote: >>> Hi Stef, >>> >>> I think that you are raising a valid point, and I actually agree with it. >>> >>> But I think there is another side of the coin as well. >>> >>> I think that right now we are in between worlds and this is not quite beneficial. Switching to GitHub is a significant effort, and treating it as business as usual will not work. That is why I think it is so important that we committed to the move for Pharo 7 and that we invest in the infrastructure. But, this will not be enough either if we do not get people to exercise it as soon as possible. >> Doru, there are also holes in the tool set that are not being addressed ... there are a number of critical tools that need to be created and I don't see anyone working on them .... >> >> I went through this transition 5 years ago with my tool set and with the proper set of tools approach the difficult transition will be a bit easier ... >> >> As it stands Pharo is standing with one foot in two boats ... there are the old Monticello tools and the new Git/Filetree tools and what is needed is a tool or two that can unify to both tool sets so that the transition between the two can be seamless ... these two sets of tools are not complicated and there working implementations that can be adapted to Pharo or used as a fairly detailed guide ... >> >> The confusion and frustration that I see now is not a surprise to me ... I wrote" the emails" at the beginning of this year because I saw that Pharo was finally reaching a critical point in its move to integrate git into the mainstream development environment and I knew that these types of issues were going to come up where Monticello and Git were going to create friction --- friction that can be reduced by creating some simple "unifying tools" ... >> >> I want to help, I have tried to help and I am still willing to help, but I cannot write the tools for Pharo ... >> >> Dale >> >

1 0

pillar highlight text in code
by Nicolai Hess Nov. 6, 2016

Nov. 6, 2016

Can we highlight a piece of code? In the updated PBE (Reflection chapter) there is the text: "Change the definition of Integer>>>factorial by inserting the underlined expression as shown below" But I can not see the "underline" in the code example. Is it even possible to add such text properties to a "code-style" formatted text ? BTW, the method name is wrong (in both places) Integer>>#factorial not Integer>>>factorial

2 5

About balkanisation
by stepharo Nov. 6, 2016

Nov. 6, 2016

Hi I would like that you think a bit about our community and that there is a value in using common tools to share and develop common libraries. Because to me it feels like we are getting balkanize. It may look super cool and be hyper trendy to use github (because like that you can say that you use latest hyper cool features), but I would like to ask especially people building libraries to pay attention that it is important that other people can contribute back easily and that there is an easy way to load/contribute. Today I experienced Bloc - I cannot load code and I cannot contribute. - I saw mdl with a mixture between smalltalkhub and github (sounds super hyper cool) and I saw paul not being able to contribute :( Yes you can say that monticello sucks yes it is terrible yes we all fell like Cobol programmers but at the end of the day. Yes the herb is always greener elsewhere. Yes yes yes. Let us take some facts. We managed pharo and moose with it over the last 8 years successfully and Pharo and moose are not 5 packages together from what I can see. So pay attention about the decision you take. Now we will provide git support (this is 8 months that nicolas is exclusively working/thinking/dreaming about that) and that we are doing experiments (Guille is managing the bootstrap in github). Now when everybody will have its own little project lost on github (I do not count the amount of time I do not find pillar on github because I forget that it is called pillar-markup), what will we do. So we need an infrastructure to handle this and christophe is working on this. I think that you should consider the accidental complexity as something that we can minimise by using patterns and common practices. Now you can think that I'm an idiot and that I have no vision (be my guest) but we should pay attention because we are a small community. Stef

3 2

[Bloc] Hierarchy of BiEvent
by Denis Kudriashov Nov. 6, 2016

Nov. 6, 2016

Hi. I look at dev version of Bloc and have questions about events. There is duplicated hierarchy of OSEvent and BlEvent. For example for OSKeyDownEvent and OSMouseButtonPressEvent there are same events from Block: BlKeyDownEvent and BlMouseDownEvent. Bloc of course add many new events like BlDragEvent and BlDblClickEvent. But why we not manage all events equally? why we need this distinction? Also I was so much surprized about keyboard modifiers. In OS there is OSStateModifiers with smart boolean states like leftShiftPressed, leftAltPressed which are decoded from integer bits of raw SDL event. And in Bloc it is BlKeyModifiers which are created from OSStateModifier. And here is most amazing thing: BlKeyModifiers encode smart boolean flags about keys back into integer bits. So we have: SDL event int => OSStateModifiers booleans => BlKeyModifiers int Why it is done like this? And currently BlKeyModifiers lost many states from OSStateModifiers.

5 17

[pharo-project/pharo-core]
by GitHub Nov. 6, 2016

Nov. 6, 2016

Branch: refs/tags/60283 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

1 0

[pharo-project/pharo-core] f762ef: 60283
by GitHub Nov. 6, 2016

Nov. 6, 2016

Branch: refs/heads/6.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: f762ef77698b79b65063b877c34bf9c3f1004e73 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/f762ef77698b79b65063b877… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2016-11-06 (Sun, 06 Nov 2016) Changed paths: M Polymorph-Widgets.package/extension/SystemWindow/instance/configureForUnembedding.st M Polymorph-Widgets.package/extension/SystemWindow/instance/isEmbedded.st A Refactoring-Core.package/RBSourceRegexRefactoring.class/instance/private/parseSelector_.st M Refactoring-Core.package/RBSourceRegexRefactoring.class/instance/transforming/transform.st R ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script60282.st A ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script60283.st R ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update60282.st A ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update60283.st M ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st M Tool-Catalog.package/CatalogProject.class/instance/accessing/fullDescription.st Log Message: ----------- 60283 19299 Missing border after dragging out of a window group https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19299 18286 Provide notice of missing package description in CatalogBrowser https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18286 19309 RBSourceRegexRefactoring calls not existing method on RBClass https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19309 http://files.pharo.org/image/60/60283.zip

1 0

Squeaksource.com is down
by David T. Lewis Nov. 5, 2016

Nov. 5, 2016

The squeaksource.com service is down due to a failure in the squeaksource image. Cause of failure and estimated time to fix are not yet known. Recovery may require rebuilding from a backup image from 5 October 2016, so additional downtime and possible loss of account data are likely. All actual files are intact on the server and no data loss is anticipated. Dave

1 1