May 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo is exploding
by Marcus Denker May 16, 2012

May 16, 2012

On May 16, 2012, at 10:01 AM, Fernando Olivero wrote: > I've recently read the book on UI usability [1], were the author > states that after ten years of performing user evaluations and > studies, he can assert that "people stick to the first thing that > works". > > Maybe that's the reason behind this aversion to change. > Another idea is that it's an instantiation of the Innovators Dilemma? http://www.amazon.com/The-Innovators-Dilemma-Revolutionary-Essentials/dp/00… What he shows in the book is that if you ask your customers, they never want change. But your competitor (especially new one) that does not listen to your customers and does exactly what they where against will in the end take all your business. Because the people that where against all change have no problem to abandon the unchaning thing when something better comes along. Requesting "no change" will *not* give you layality. "You did not want change so you can't now use the better new stuff, you have to stay with the system you *requested* to stay as it is". No. The exact same people that request "no change" will move to the better, too. It's a real dilemma. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

2 1

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo is exploding
by Fernando Olivero May 16, 2012

May 16, 2012

I've recently read the book on UI usability [1], were the author states that after ten years of performing user evaluations and studies, he can assert that "people stick to the first thing that works". Maybe that's the reason behind this aversion to change. I totally agree with Marcus and others, Pharo1.3 is FROZEN. So why work on the BLEEDING EDGE, if you cant cope with a changing system. Fernando [1] Dont make me think, Steve Kruger. On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > On May 16, 2012, at 9:23 AM, Pavel Krivanek wrote: > >> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 11:29 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse >> <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: >>>>> It depends. Pharo 2.0 is UNSTABLE. It says it everywhere. If you want to do >>>>> seriuous development you won't beusing Pharo 2.0, will you? ;) >>>> >>>> I talked about that few days ago with GermÃ¡n. The problem is not in >>>> using of unstable version. The problem is that it is very easy to stop >>>> to be in touch with Pharo now and within one year when the current >>>> unstable version will become stable the developers will face to very >>>> different system. That is one of the reason why GermÃ¡n choose Cuis for >>>> his current projects. Developers want simple predictable system. >>> >>> Absolutely wonderful. So what people wants just the same. Ok but this is not Pharo. >>> And and and again again again and again who is concerned by RPackage vs PackageInfo, >>> systemNotifier vs. announcement, better monticello, better canvas, better Zincâ¦. >>> I find that a totally false argument. >> >> I will quote GermÃ¡n (I hope he will not mind): "lot and lot of >> things... Lot of new things each day. > > Part of that is that I started the project "tweet something about Pharo every day". > some 15 months? ago... my idea was that we need to make public what > happens because most people's perception was : Smalltak is dead. > > If people want I can stop. > >> Not time to stabilize nothing. > > Pharo 1.4 is frozen. We just fix bugs. The same with 1.3. Or even 1.2... > >> Is needed such acceleration? ... My point is, I'm trying to move a >> business with Smalltalk and the acceleration of Pharo is well know by >> me (from other companies) and sooner or later, impact in my job and >> I'm a very LITTLE software house can't migrate my products all the >> time." >> > You should *not* migrate. That's the idea. Just as one uses a (in the future > unchanging Cuis, I am sorry to hear that), you can use an unchaning Pharo 1.4, > or 1.3. > Only when your project needs it, (because you actively with manpower develop it > for a longer time), you can move to a new version. > >> We simply have to accept that some developers can have this feelings >> and try to find a way how to limit it. I think that some official >> Pharo blog (maybe written by Esteban) would be very helpful. Some kind >> of not very extensive technical information source that will help >> people to stay in touch with Pharo progress. That will explain what is >> being changed in Pharo and why. I think that developers than will see >> the changes like positive not as alien ones. >> > > What I think is problematic: Peopler are against Change. But when somone > nevertheless does it, build a great system, the same people that did not allow > us to move will gladly abandon the old system for the new system. > Cuis is a good example. According to the Philosophy of German, it should not exist. > > Maybe we should partition the *mailinglist* by stable and unstable? > This way people using the stable don't see the noise and can focus... > > Â Â Â Â Marcus > > -- > Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de > >

2 1

[Pharo-project] Implementors of...
by Hilaire Fernandes May 16, 2012

May 16, 2012

Tried from Nautilus: Why when asking 'implementors of ' in the method menu, I only got the implementor of this method. Am I doing something wrong? Look like the browser need a lot of love. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo -- http://www.drgeo.eu

7 10

[Pharo-project] Smalltalkhub needs your quick in the ass :)
by StÃ©phane Ducasse May 16, 2012

May 16, 2012

Hi guys Nicolas released internally a new version of smalltalkhub and everyday he finds a good reason not to announce it. So please do us a favorâ¦ create some projects and push your code there so that nicolas gets the feel of a alive and kicking smalltalkhub :) Stef

8 12

[Pharo-project] SSO - CAS Client in Smalltalk ?
by CÃ©drick BÃ©ler May 16, 2012

May 16, 2012

Hi all, I'd like to develop some web apps for our university but one prerequisite is to use the Central Authentication Service [1]. It's an open source authentication service and I wonder if somebody has ever worked with it and if there are any client available. Do you have any experience and/or pointers ? If not, I may dog into the protocol and see what I can do. I've spotted PHP implementation and also Ruby [2]. I think that could be a nice addition to Zinc even if not as widespread as OAuth/OpenID stuffs. TIA CÃ©drick [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Authentication_Service [2] https://github.com/rubycas/rubycas-client

5 11

[Pharo-project] New Cuis mail list
by Juan Vuletich (mail lists) May 16, 2012

May 16, 2012

Hi Folks, There's a new mail list for discussion about Cuis Smalltalk at http://www.jvuletich.org/mailman/listinfo/cuis_jvuletich.org . Everybody is welcome. Language is English. In any case, if you want to talk about Cuis in Spanish, the 'official' place is squeakRos(a)gruposyahoo.com.ar . Cheers, Juan Vuletich

1 0

[Pharo-project] ANN: Moose apprentice course - June 2-3
by Tudor Girba May 15, 2012

May 15, 2012

Hi, I am happy to announce that I will organize the first Moose apprentice public course. This is an introductory course on how to use the Moose analysis platform for putting humane assessment into practice. It is dedicated to software engineers, and the concepts covered include model navigation, querying techniques, code metrics, and visualizations. The course sessions are accompanied by hands-on exercises. Here is the official announcement: http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/free-moose-apprentice-course-june-2-3… Cheers, Doru p.s. I am announcing this course here, because it can be interesting for the Smalltalk community (and Pharo in particular) in two ways: - learn how to use Moose in assessment scenarios, and - given that the course typically reaches non-Smalltalk programmers, it can be a good advertisement for Smalltalk (they actually get to program Smalltalk) -- www.tudorgirba.com "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair, you will end up with a messy haircut."

1 0

[Pharo-project] Problem with RPackage and MCPackage integration
by Mariano Martinez Peck May 15, 2012

May 15, 2012

Hi guys. I am experimenting with exporting Monticello packages with Fuel. What I am doing so far is I download somehting with metacello, then I query all the needed packages and its order and then I serialize that. To do that, I am using (PackageInfo named: 'XXX') and then I ask #classes or #extensionMethods. The problem is that #extensionMethods is incredible slow: extensionMethods ^ (Smalltalk allClassesAndTraits, (Smalltalk allClasses collect: [:c | c class])) gather: [:classOrTrait | self extensionMethodsForClass: classOrTrait] .... I THINK that RPackage store extension methods and tehrefor I guess it could be much faster. The problem I have now with RPackage is this. I have a MCPackage called 'Fuel'. And then I have different categories inside that package such as 'Fuel-Core', 'Fuel-Clusters'. 'Fuel-Stream', etc. (MCPackage named: 'Fuel') correspondingRPackage classes -> () (RPackageOrganizer default packageNamed: 'Fuel') classes -> () so i am getting an empty collection instead of the classes. If I enter to a category, it is fine, for example: (RPackageOrganizer default packageNamed: 'Fuel-Clusters') classes -> a Set(FLGlobalSendCluster FLGlobalClassCluster FLObjectCluster FLCluster FLVariablesMapping FLWordObjectCluster FLIteratingCluster FLGlobalValueCluster FLVariableObjectCluster FLBitsObjectCluster FLGlobalCompiledMethodCluster FLPrimitiveCluster FLGlobalAssociationCluster FLPositiveSmallIntegerCluster FLGlobalCluster FLPointerObjectCluster FLWellKnownObjectsCluster FLMethodContextCluster FLSmallIntegerCluster FLUInt16Cluster FLGlobalClassSideCluster FLByteObjectCluster FLSubstitutionCluster FLNegativeSmallIntegerCluster FLHookPrimitiveCluster FLFixedObjectCluster FLWeakVariableObjectCluster) so...how can I get a RPackage for my MCPackage/PackageInfo called 'Fuel' ? thanks -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

2 1

[Pharo-project] Copying classes: breaking contract or not?
by Mariano Martinez Peck May 15, 2012

May 15, 2012

Hi guys. The last literal of a instance-side compiled method always points to the SAME (#==) association of the class in Smalltalk global. The literals of a compiled method that refer to class variables refer to the same association (#==) of the classPool of its class: self assert: ((GRPlatform class >> #current) literalAt: 1) == (GRPlatform classPool associationAt: #Current). -> true However, if I do a copy of the class: | copy | copy := GRPlatform copy. self assert: ((copy class >> #current) literalAt: 1) == (copy classPool associationAt: #Current). this is not true anymore. Of course, you can see this because of the Class >> #copy implementation: So my question is....is #copy breaking the contract (and therefore it has to be fixed) or this is not mandatory for the system (as it is with the last literal pointing to classes)? Thanks, -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

5 10

Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo on Stackexchange
by Marcus Denker May 15, 2012

May 15, 2012

On May 15, 2012, at 1:18 PM, Frank Shearar wrote: > On 15 May 2012 12:10, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: >> On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> With the dev mailing list slowly getting out of control ;) we should think of >>> means of communication with the masses! >>> >>> I created stackexchange proposal which needs YOUR support: >>> >>> http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/40717/pharo?referrer=gXC4FWspxSud… >>> >>> we need now: >>> - 60 Followers >>> - 40 questions with some answers! >>> >> It seems that this will not work: someone is tagging all questions as >> "can be asked on Stackoverflow" >> and requests to close the area. >> >> So I think we will have to install our own thing instead. > > If what you want is something other than a QA site, absolutely. > > If you want a QA place, I don't see why people can't just use SO: > there are already 113 questions tagged "pharo" there, and all people > need do is... just ask your question there. It's one more thing you > don't need to write/install/maintain, and one LESS thing for you to > track: lists, RSS feeds, newsgroups, QA sites, ... I did not have an account on StackOverflow until 1 hour ago. It's one more thing in itself, and I don't see how a big mess of questions helps of all topics in the world will help us. We need somethign focussed. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

5 4