January 2012 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] Which COG VM?
by Marcus Denker Jan. 31, 2012

Jan. 31, 2012

On Jan 22, 2012, at 10:50 AM, Johan Brichau wrote: > > I think somebody that maintains the website needs to replace the VM that is linked on the download page with the latest VM built in Jenkins. > > I had the same issues but when I switched to the latest built on Jenkins, I had no issues anymore. > We need to once and for all finish to have a *complete* continous integration setup... we really should push towards that, else the on-click will be always out of date. Now there are lots of tiny trivial unimportant steps to go there that somehow never get done... I have put this on my TODO list, but it will take a while, sadly. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

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Re: [Pharo-project] Enthousiasm is the main currency among developers
by Marcus Denker Jan. 31, 2012

Jan. 31, 2012

On Jan 31, 2012, at 12:10 PM, Frank Shearar wrote: > On 31 January 2012 14:44, S Krish <krishnamachari.sudhakar(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> I agree whole heartedly after a month of Pharo being used as a tool for >> newbies. >> >> a) Crashes... Make sure to run an up-to-date vm and image (and yes, the downloads are not up to date...) And it's important that people report problems. If problems are not reported, it is as if they would not exist. >> b) Bugs in basic functionality: Morphic as well as in other places Morphic is just crap. But what can we do else than slowly fixing what we see? >> c) The User Guide is not in synch with the current stable Pharo.. in simple >> images of browsers.. We just can't update pharo by example for every release... the day has just 24 hours. But it is true that the version right now is far too old. (based on a horibly slow 1.0 with a completely different browser...) In general there are two options: -> give up and do something else -> fix the problems, step by step. -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

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Re: [Pharo-project] OneClick on website's first page?
by Marcus Denker Jan. 31, 2012

Jan. 31, 2012

On Jan 26, 2012, at 2:01 PM, Janko MivÅ¡ek wrote: > Hi guys, > > For newcommers it would be really good to put a "Stable Pharo OneClick" > on the first place of Downloads section on first page at > http://www.pharo-project.org. > But that we have? No? http://www.pharo-project.org/pharo-download -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

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Re: [Pharo-project] Future of SCM (was Smalltalk for small projects only?)
by Janko MivÅ¡ek Jan. 31, 2012

Jan. 31, 2012

Hi guys, This idea about realtime non-invasive notifications of others activity in the group is actually interesting and quite close what we are seeing in realtime web apps recently. I namelly see the Facebook-like business collaboration as a growing trend and one of more interesting innovations there is how to get notified without being disturbed, non-invasive therefore. I think we can copy some ideas from there to our tools too. Janko S, GÃ¶ran Krampe piÅ¡e: >>> - Real time collaboration. If we can sit in a shared (in some >>> controlled fashion) development environment in some kind >>> of real time model, then lots of merging and conflicts would just say >>> PUFF and go up in smoke. We are beginning to see >>> this now with the new IDEs running "on the web" because suddenly it >>> gets very natural to experiment in that direction. >> Real-time collaboration in the sense of getting code updates from >> other developers immediatedly is probably not very >> helpful, as it would distract a lot. > Code changes is one thing you probably want to *control* (which is why I > wrote "in some controlled fashion") but some examples of stuff you > really would like to get "immediately" are: > > - Developer X is modifying "your" code. No, not committed yet - but > perhaps you should talk to X :) > > - Visual queue/notification that developer X just managed to break your > unit tests > > - Developer X is right now writing new code that references classes that > you in turn have modified in your uncommitted code... or sending > messages whose implementations you in turn have modified in your > uncommitted code. > > ...and so on, there are numerous "tell tales" that there will be > interesting issues down the road - and these signals could be exposed to > the developers in various ways. Open your mind - it is not all about > sharing commits of code :) -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

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[Pharo-project] Artifacts Mirroring
by Camillo Bruni Jan. 31, 2012

Jan. 31, 2012

hi everyone, I thought about mirroring the fresh artifacts from our jenkins server to the google-code site. Like this we would have at least a second place to download fresh builds even if the jenkins site is down again. What do you think?

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[Pharo-project] End of startup script behavior
by Sven Van Caekenberghe Jan. 31, 2012

Jan. 31, 2012

Guys, Maybe I missed this, but did something change with the behavior at the end of a startup script between 1.3 and 1.4 ? It used to be that the image kept on running unless you asked it to quit explicitly, now it seems that the image automatically quits unless you keep it busy. Can someone confirm this ? Was this intentional ? What would be the recommended way to keep the image open ? Somehow something like [ (Delay forDuration: 1 hour) wait ] repeat. seems so silly, but it works. Thx, Sven

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[Pharo-project] Following context execution
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Jan. 31, 2012

Jan. 31, 2012

Hi I would like to write some tests about MethodContext and BlockClosure activation. To start I wanted to write a simple invocation and step in from context to context. I could manually annotate the code with thisContext and store the resulting contexts somewhere. But does anybody has some magic information so that I can reuse the debugger logic? Stef

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[Pharo-project] Help with markdown is coming...
by Igor Stasenko Jan. 31, 2012

Jan. 31, 2012

a bit messy, because Camillo is a bad guy! ;) -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko.

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Re: [Pharo-project] PseudoContext?
by Marcus Denker Jan. 30, 2012

Jan. 30, 2012

On Jan 29, 2012, at 6:02 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi > > I have the impression that PseudoContext is not used anymore. At least compact class array and special object array > do not use it anymore. So what is the use for this class? > I think it was only used by Ian's original Jitter... which means 10 years unused. We should remove it. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://marcusdenker.de

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[Pharo-project] Fwd: [vwnc] Smalltalk for small projects only?
by Janko MivÅ¡ek Jan. 30, 2012

Jan. 30, 2012

-------- Prvotno sporoÄilo -------- Zadeva: Re: [vwnc] Smalltalk for small projects only? Datum: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:27:31 +0000 Od: Niall Ross <niallfr(a)btinternet.com> Dear Janko, (tried to send this to Pharo and squeak mailing lists as well as well as vwnc and you - got a hiccough; trying again just to vwnc and you). The largest Smalltalk project I've experienced was Kapital. They were approaching 70 developers in 4 locations in 2005 and IIUC are larger now. They use an in-house process based on Envy. Frequent rebuilding of images is forced by aging of Envy repositories, properly committed stuff being copied over. Thus developers are obliged to use correct process or lose code. I described the process briefly in a secondary talk (not my main one) at ESUG 2004, and Jan Monclair gave more recent info at ESUG 2008 and ESUG 2009 (see my reports on the ESUG website). A developer I knew there had practical experience of a rival's attempt to replicate their achievement in Java, using comparable resources, that crashed and burned. I've worked in two teams of 15 - 20 developers (one on a single site, one at two sites), each of which were verifiably matching systems maintained by ~100 developers in rivals. These were both in the insurance domain. In one of these, Envy-based, each developer rebuilt their image each day - the process took quite a few minutes but was valuable. In the other, images were eternal (yes, I do mean that!); it would take a long time to describe their process and even longer to convince readers that, contrary to what I at first thought and what most of you will think, it was a viable development process. All the other Smalltalk teams I've worked in, prior to coming to Cincom, were in single figures and used Store or Envy. One of them was verifiably rivalling a sytem of 10s of people in another language. Conclusions: 1) As your Smalltalk project gets large, you will need to put process and tools in place on top of what Envy, or Store, or, as Dale says, Monticello and Metacello, give you out-of-the-box at the moment. (It is news to me if Java projects of 200 people do not find the same, but I defer to those with more - which means any - experience of being in a 200-person Java project to correct me if that is not so - or is less so in some important respect.) It would be good if Smalltalk projects that find themselves growing into this area could get a tool/add-on that conveyed existing experience and solutions instead of having to re-roll their own superstructure on existing tools. (In Cincom, we are attempting to use our own development-process and build-process-improvement work to achieve this.) 2) Combining Kapital experience with the ratio one can justify between 'Smalltalk developers needed to do' and 'Java developers needed to do', persuades me that there is no limit on the complexity of problem Smalltalk can attack relative to its rivals. 3) I agree with Dale that making the minumum image smaller is the way to go. (Again, we wish to do this in VW; as always, such efforts progress slowly in background while we meet immediate requirements.) Yours faithfully Niall Ross -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Aida/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

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