October 2010 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Fwd: License question
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Oct. 12, 2010

Oct. 12, 2010

Begin forwarded message: > From: Paolo Bonzini <bonzini(a)gnu.org> > Date: October 12, 2010 10:37:35 AM GMT+02:00 > To: "Fitzell, Julian" <jfitzell(a)cincom.com> > Cc: stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr, BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu, paolo.bonzini(a)usi.ch > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] License question > > On 10/12/2010 10:00 AM, Fitzell, Julian wrote: >> Are you sure? I've heard opinions expressed that looking at a library >> and copying the API might constitute a derivative work. > > It's tricky terrain, but the FSF itself did it multiple times with its "provide a free replacement for a non-free package" policy. It's one of the few areas in which you'll hear me saying their evaluation criteria is biased ("if you use this to make a free derivative it's fine, if you use this to make a non-copyleft derivative it's not"). > > However, in this case it doesn't apply. What I suggested is to copy the API of an existing non-copyleft package (Didier Besset's numerical methods) and use it in the GPL'd bindings that BSchwab (I think) wrote for GSL. > > Paolo

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[Pharo-project] Fwd: License question
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Oct. 12, 2010

Oct. 12, 2010

Begin forwarded message: > From: "Fitzell, Julian" <jfitzell(a)cincom.com> > Date: October 12, 2010 10:00:56 AM GMT+02:00 > To: <bonzini(a)gnu.org>, <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > Cc: <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>, <paolo.bonzini(a)usi.ch> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] License question > > Are you sure? I've heard opinions expressed that looking at a library and copying the API might constitute a derivative work. > > I'm not certain if that's correct or not but if you're purposely trying to skirt the terms of the GPL, you might want to make certain. > > Julian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Paolo Bonzini <paolo.bonzini(a)gmail.com> > To: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > Cc: Fitzell, Julian; Wilhelm K Schwab <BSchwab(a)anest.ufl.edu>; Bonzini Paolo <paolo.bonzini(a)usi.ch> > Sent: Tue Oct 12 08:47:56 2010 > Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] License question > > On 10/12/2010 09:35 AM, Paolo Bonzini wrote: > > On 10/11/2010 11:29 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > >>>> Let's go forward in time. NativeBoost, Alien or FFI provide > >>>> callbacks, I do some adaptation on my end, and out comes a pretty > >>>> capable wrapper for the GNU Scientific Library. That sentence > >>>> trivializes a LOT of work :( Details aside, is the wrapper code > >>>> itself affected by GPL > > > > Yes. > > That said, there is a way out. You could have a simple-minded library > which has the same interface as the bindings but is written in pure > Smalltalk. Then, the same thing can run fast under the GPL, or slow > under MIT license. > > I meant to do this exactly for GSL for a long time, making it compatible > with the code from "Object-Oriented Implementation of Numerical Methods" > so that it could act as a fallback. However, I never even started it. > > http://www.amazon.com/Object-Oriented-Implementation-Numerical-Methods-Intr… > > Paolo >

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Re: [Pharo-project] Collaboractive book chapter 10
by Simon Denier Oct. 12, 2010

Oct. 12, 2010

I'm fixing ordering in book chapters For some reasons, two chapters (Customizing Pharo and Pharo Tools) were created as children of Table-Of-Contents, and they pushed everything down. Also I notice that a figure was created as a child of Table-Of-Figures, I have no idea where it should go http://book.pharo-project.org/book/table-of-figures/RepositoryEnvironment On 12 oct. 2010, at 09:07, Norbert Hartl wrote: > I just had a look at the book and wondered why the chapter introduction is chapter 10. Looks like it is supposed to be 1 or 2 > > Norbert > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project -- Simon

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[Pharo-project] Issue 3090: Context not included in ImageSegment when saving morph to file
by Sheridan Mahoney Oct. 12, 2010

Oct. 12, 2010

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[Pharo-project] Collaboractive book chapter 10
by Norbert Hartl Oct. 12, 2010

Oct. 12, 2010

I just had a look at the book and wondered why the chapter introduction is chapter 10. Looks like it is supposed to be 1 or 2 Norbert

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[Pharo-project] Fwd: License question
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Oct. 12, 2010

Oct. 12, 2010

> > On 10/12/2010 09:35 AM, Paolo Bonzini wrote: >> On 10/11/2010 11:29 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >>>>> Let's go forward in time. NativeBoost, Alien or FFI provide >>>>> callbacks, I do some adaptation on my end, and out comes a pretty >>>>> capable wrapper for the GNU Scientific Library. That sentence >>>>> trivializes a LOT of work :( Details aside, is the wrapper code >>>>> itself affected by GPL >> >> Yes. > > That said, there is a way out. You could have a simple-minded library which has the same interface as the bindings but is written in pure Smalltalk. Then, the same thing can run fast under the GPL, or slow under MIT license. > > I meant to do this exactly for GSL for a long time, making it compatible with the code from "Object-Oriented Implementation of Numerical Methods" so that it could act as a fallback. However, I never even started it. > > http://www.amazon.com/Object-Oriented-Implementation-Numerical-Methods-Intr… > > Paolo

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[Pharo-project] Fwd: License question
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Oct. 12, 2010

Oct. 12, 2010

> > Yes. See this question in the GPL FAQ: > > "If a programming language interpreter is released under the GPL, does that mean programs written to be interpreted by it must be under GPL-compatible licenses?" > > Despite the phrasing of the question, it actually includes the relevant answer: > > ---- > However, when the interpreter is extended to provide âbindingsâ to other facilities (often, but not necessarily, libraries), the interpreted program is effectively linked to the facilities it uses through these bindings. So if these facilities are released under the GPL, the interpreted program that uses them must be released in a GPL-compatible way. > > Another similar and very common case is to provide libraries with the interpreter which are themselves interpreted. For instance, Perl comes with many Perl modules, and a Java implementation comes with many Java classes. These libraries and the programs that call them are always dynamically linked together. > > If you choose to use GPL'd Perl modules or Java classes in your program, you must release the program in a GPL-compatible way, regardless of the license used in the Perl or Java interpreter that the combined Perl or Java program will run on. > ---- > > GSL is the "facilities" in this case. So the first paragraph means that the bindings themselves are under the GPL. > > So the bindings are a "GPL'd module" in the second/third paragraph, and the third paragraph means that any program using the GSL bindings is also under the GPL. > > Paolo

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[Pharo-project] Problem with inspector
by morod Oct. 12, 2010

Oct. 12, 2010

Hi i'm new to smalltalk and Pharo and my inspector show instead of Why? Thanks

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Re: [Pharo-project] Xtreams port to Squeak - second wave
by mkobetic＠gmail.com Oct. 12, 2010

Oct. 12, 2010

Hi Nicolas, "Nicolas Cellier"<nicolas.cellier.aka.nice(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi again, > I now have ported two more packages > - Xtreams-Transforms > - Xtreams-Substreams > and their tests This is great! I loaded your code into Pharo 1.1 and things seem to be working quite well. There was a complaint about missing SharedQueue2, I just created a dummy subclass of SharedQueue with that name and things seemed to load fine. XTRecyclingCenter seems to be subclass of XTWriteStream, it should be Object subclass, maybe a typo ? > I did not have any portability problem with those... > But that's because I did not handle the Character encoder/decoder. > Consequently, I have 8 tests failing (the Base64 related tests) I was thinking, we could implement just 'encoding: #ascii' quite easily, to make this reasonably usable at least for applications that are fine with that. We're actually contemplating about implementing our own encoders for Xtreams too. The VW ones are tied to the classic streams more than we like. You might have noticed some rather hairy parts in the encoding streams yourself, where we're trying to work around some of the issues it creates. The advantage of reusing the existing encoders was that there are quite a few of those available, so reimplementing all that would be a drag. But we can come up with a scheme where we can reimplement at least the common ones and in VW we can still preserve hooking into the old ones for the rest. I can give that a try on VW side in the meantime so you could get those for free. > Plus 4 other tests failing because of my poor implementation of > #after:do: (forking processes in a SUnit TestCase can't be that > obvious). I looked at this, and I think this is how #after:do: should look like: after: aDelay do: aBlock "Evaluate the argument block delayed after the specified duration." | watchdog | watchdog := [ aDelay wait. aBlock value. ] newProcess. watchdog priority: Processor userInterruptPriority. watchdog resume. This would assume that the 2 tests calling #timeout:server:client: would use a Delay instance instead of a Duration, which I'd be fine with. However making that change doesn't quite get the tests running. It's blowing up with a DNU on the 'output close' bit in #terminate:server:client: with output being nil, which I'm having trouble figuring out. I can't find who could possibly be nilling it out. I'm somewhat struggling finding my way around the Pharo tools. The test seems to otherwise pass but the DNUs from the background process isn't nice. Also when I just click on the test in the TestRunner, I actually get four DNUs, not just one as I would expect. So I'm kinda stuck, not sure how to move forward without help from someone who knows his way around Pharo. I also get odd failure from #testWriteCollectingMultipleBufferSize, which seems to run fine (against collection) when I run the equivalent in a workspace, but strangely fails when running via the #timeout:server:client: construct, i.e. when client and server run in separate processes. Hm, now that I think of it, they sure could fail if something preempts the client, server processes at the right moment. I'll have to rethink that again. > Now, the easy part of the port (copy/paste) is almost ended. > Once we manage a compatible way to handle pragmas, PEG Parser should > port quite easily too. I wouldn't worry about the Parser stuff at this point. > Then, the harder work begins: > - File/Socket/Pipe > - Pointers (in External Heap) I wouldn't worry, about the external heap stuff either. It's neat, but probably not something many people will miss. > - Character encoding/decoding I'll see if I can help with this from the VW side. > - Compression/Decompression Is Zlib linked into the VM in Squeak too ? The compression streams are written directly against the ZLib API, so there aren't any VW specific dependencies other than how those calls are made. Similarly the crypto streams go directly against the EVP API in LibCrypto in OpenSSL, so as long as we can abstract over how those are called, the stream implementation should work as is. > If you think you can help in any of these, please tell. If you could compile a list of changes that you'd like us to adopt on the VW side, I'd certainly look at that. I did read your posts but it's not entirely clear what you'd like to handle on Squeak side and what on VW side. A fileout would be best to avoid any confusion, but a description is fine too. I'm also unclear about the become: discussion. Don't write streams in Squeak become: the underlying collection when they grow it ? Cheers, Martin

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Oct. 11, 2010

I would really like to have the same behavior than the squeak system ie having the source modification send to the list. I could not see how to set it up on squeaksource. May be this is not the same version running. Stef

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