January 2009 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] Using pharo in a course?
by Marco D'Ambros Jan. 31, 2009

Jan. 31, 2009

Hi all! I will start teaching a course about software engineering and web development, and I decided to do it with seaside. I was wondering whether to use pharo or squeak... which are the benefits and drawbacks of pharo with respect to squeak, in the context of a bachelor course? The students know about object oriented programming but don't about smalltalk, so in the first weeks we will teach smalltalk. Any suggestions? Thanks and cheers Marco D'Ambros

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[Pharo-project] Etoy removal next
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Jan. 31, 2009

Jan. 31, 2009

> > > > Hi > > I worked in the train on removing more etoy classes and I will > produce a release today. > > StakcMorph > ScriptTableButton > UnscriptedPlayer > UniClassSupport in Object class > > Stef > > >

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[Pharo-project] [ENH] Literal Byte Arrays
by Lukas Renggli Jan. 31, 2009

Jan. 31, 2009

I committed a patch that adds literal byte arrays to Pharo, with the same syntax as most other Smalltalk do (VW, VASt, GST). http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=468 I would appreciate if somebody could review the change, as it would be very useful for Seaside and solves reoccurring headaches. In my image I have almost 50 places where even the Pharo base code could profit from this extension, these places can be identified using the search expression: `#literal asByteArray I can provide a refactoring at a later point, if desired. The change is simple and loads through Monticello, even if this is modifying the scanner on the fly. Cheers, Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

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Re: [Pharo-project] About ObjectScanner
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Jan. 31, 2009

Jan. 31, 2009

> > > > Hi all > > Does anybody know or use ObjectScanner, it looks to me like a way > to loading uniclass. So far it has no user and would be a good > candidate to live. > > Stef > > >

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Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] Re: newDelta >0 failed in sqUnixMemory
by John M McIntosh Jan. 30, 2009

Jan. 30, 2009

mmm, let me clarify. I currently use Apple's GCC 4.0.1 <i686-apple- darwin9-gcc-4.0.1> that works fine for macintel, 3.3 is required for decent performance on powerpc. The version that I worked with Michael on was the LLVM GCC 4.2 and or GCC 4.2. Michael I believe tried GCC 4.3 Michael said: "after managing to build the VM with the recommended setup I tried with newer GCCs (3.45 and 4.3), both significantly slower. GCC 3.45 about 50%, GCC 4.3 about 80% of GCC 2.95." With 4.0.1 the compiler optimizations tweaks in the macintosh carbon VM build give it a good 10%? better than the defaults optimizations. However that presupposes -mtune=prescott -march=pentium-m which one can get away with on the macintosh platform, versus the bazillion cpu choices & clones on the Wintel side. On 30-Jan-09, at 9:37 AM, Andreas Raab wrote: > John M McIntosh wrote: >> Yes, I can't recall it was what 50% of the performance of a 3.x >> compile out of the box, and after *much* >> tweaking of compiler flags it was mmm just 20% slower.. Well >> certainly the performance impact was measured in 10 of percent. > > So what do you use today? gcc 4? And how does it stack up > performance-wise against a Windows VM on the same box? I personally > wouldn't mind moving forward but the results in the past were so > godawful that I haven't tried in a long time. > > Cheers, > - Andreas > >> On 30-Jan-09, at 4:33 AM, Michael Rueger wrote: >>> >>> John McIntosh and I actually spent some time a few ago compiling >>> VMs on >>> Windows and MacOS with the newest GCCs and ran into a bunch of >>> problems, >>> especially concerning performance. I had to put the work on the back >>> burner for now, but switching to newer compilers will take a bit of >>> extra work at some point. >>> >>> Michael >> -- >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> ===================================================================== >> John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> >> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> = >> ===================================================================== -- = = = ======================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com = = = ========================================================================

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Re: [Pharo-project] Using pharo in a course?
by michael_atkisson＠comcast.net Jan. 30, 2009

Jan. 30, 2009

Not to add any pressure or be annoying, but what is the current estimate of when 1.0 will be released? I am just curious. -------------- Original message -------------- From: StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > Use pharo (better UI). > Once we will have pharo 1.0 we will work on pharo by example. > Seaside is now developed using pharo. > > Stef > > > On Jan 29, 2009, at 5:53 PM, Marco D'Ambros wrote: > > > Hi all! > > > > I will start teaching a course about software engineering and web > > development, and I decided to do it with seaside. > > I was wondering whether to use pharo or squeak... which are the > > benefits and drawbacks of pharo with respect to squeak, in the context > > of a bachelor course? > > The students know about object oriented programming but don't about > > smalltalk, so in the first weeks we will teach smalltalk. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Thanks and cheers > > Marco D'Ambros > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Pharo-project mailing list > > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: [Pharo-project] newDelta >0 failed in sqUnixMemory
by Provoost, P (Paul) Jan. 30, 2009

Jan. 30, 2009

I have the same problem when compiling the vm on OpenSolaris 2008-11 using the SUN compilers. So please do some more testing with the 4.3.2. version, after all we cannot stick to old compilers, can we? Regards, Paul Provoost. On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Andreas Raab <andreas.raab(a)gmx.de> wrote: >> Since you're compiling the VM yourself, you might want to add a guard that >> catches the condition and prints out the environmental values (oldLimit, >> delta, newSize, newDelta). I would suspect that this is a signed/unsigned >> issue with memory being allocated somewhere close to the 2GB barrier and >> then flipping from positive to negative. Since newSize and newDelta are >> declared int, this could easily happen. Damien Cassou wrote: > I've just downgraded gcc to 3.4 (instead of 4.3.2) and it seems to > work fine. Do you want me to do more testing with the 4.3.2 version? -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st _____________________________________________________________ This email (including any attachments to it) is confidential, legally privileged, subject to copyright and is sent for the personal attention of the intended recipient only. If you have received this email in error, please advise us immediately and delete it. You are notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. Although we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this email, we cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage arising from the viruses in this email or attachments. We exclude any liability for the content of this email, or for the consequences of any actions taken on the basis of the information provided in this email or its attachments, unless that information is subsequently confirmed in writing. If this email contains an offer, that should be considered as an invitation to treat. _____________________________________________________________

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Re: [Pharo-project] [ENH] Literal Byte Arrays
by Bill Schwab Jan. 30, 2009

Jan. 30, 2009

Lukas, I had pretty much resigned to going without this - not sure why given how much I grip about other stuff :) There are indeed efficiency considerations, but it's also a big step in compatibility. THANKS!!! Bill Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D. University of Florida Department of Anesthesiology PO Box 100254 Gainesville, FL 32610-0254 Email: bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu Tel: (352) 273-6785 FAX: (352) 392-7029 >>> renggli(a)gmail.com 01/30/09 4:55 AM >>> > so do I understand correctly that your point is to replace > asByteArray by #[] Yes, instead of writing #( 1 2 3 ) asByteArray you write #[ 1 2 3 ] Which is much faster and saves memory, as no conversion and no copying happens at runtime. All Smalltalk dialects (with the exception of GemStone) support this syntax. Pharo should have it too. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project

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Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] newDelta >0 failed in sqUnixMemory
by Damien Cassou Jan. 30, 2009

Jan. 30, 2009

On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Andreas Raab <andreas.raab(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Since you're compiling the VM yourself, you might want to add a guard that > catches the condition and prints out the environmental values (oldLimit, > delta, newSize, newDelta). I would suspect that this is a signed/unsigned > issue with memory being allocated somewhere close to the 2GB barrier and > then flipping from positive to negative. Since newSize and newDelta are > declared int, this could easily happen. Here is the result of: fprintf(stderr, "oldLimit=%p\ndelta=%d\nnewSize=%d\nnewDelta=%d\n"); oldLimit=0x80562b8 delta=-1077506096 newSize=0 newDelta=423027548 squeak: /tmp/squeak-svn/platforms/unix/vm/sqUnixMemory.c:175: uxGrowMemoryBy: Assertion `newDelta >= 0' failed. Does it help? -- Damien Cassou http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st

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[Pharo-project] Multilingual tests
by Michael Rueger Jan. 30, 2009

Jan. 30, 2009

Hi all, are there any other tests available for the Multilingual stuff other than "MultilingualTests-TextConversion"? Would like to avoid re-inventing the wheel... Michael

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