- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-dev] System and user processe
by Max Leske June 21, 2016

June 21, 2016

>> On 06/19/2016 05:03 AM, Max Leske wrote: >> Hi, >> >> In Pharo and Squeak we have no separation between processes that >> belong to the IDE, tools etc. and processes that are spawned as part >> of an application. Iâd like to know your opinion on the following >> (rough) idea: >> >> 1. We introduce two subclasses of Process: SystemProcess and >> UserProcess 2. We define #isSystemProcess and #isUserProcess 3. We >> introduce #newSystemProcess and #newUserProcess 4. We deprecate >> #newProcess and delegate to #newUserProcess (thereby modifying all >> users of #forkXXX to yield instances of UserProcess) >> >> Of the following Iâm less sure: 5. We introduce #forkSystemProcess >> et. al >> >> Iâve tried this out in Pharo 6 and there seem to be no problems with >> the VM. The benefit would be improved separation between system and >> user space. It would allow us to implement stuff for processes in >> general (e.g. for the debugger) which we do not want to affect system >> processes like the UI process or the background process. One concrete >> example: the process browser could hide all system processes and make >> them visible on demand (that would greatly improve the view because >> you can now better find your own processes). >> >> >> Iâm looking forward to your comments. >> >> Cheers, Max >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 3:32 AM, Tony Garnock-Jones <tonyg(a)ccs.neu.edu> wrote: >> Hi Max, >> >> Perhaps a notion of process grouping might make sense? Following the >> zero-one-infinity principle, having exactly two kinds of process seems a >> bit odd. >> >> Having process grouping would lead to a tree of processes. >> >> For example, the outermost level could be "system" processes, of which >> one was a group containing all "user" processes. >> >> Or, the outermost level could have two children, one group of "system" >> procs, one of "user" procs; or, ... >> >> The "current process group" would be a kind of dynamic parameter, and >> newly-forked processes would by default become siblings of the forker in >> the current group. >> >> Regards, >> Tony > > This sounds like a good idea. It would make it easier for a user of > multiple applications in one image to properly kill one. For this > reason, perhaps there should be some impediment on apps adding > processes adding the System Process group(??) > > cheers -ben Yes. Thatâs why in my proposal the default is to create a user process. Cheers, Max

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Re: [Pharo-dev] System and user processe
by Max Leske June 21, 2016

June 21, 2016

> Hi Max, > > Perhaps a notion of process grouping might make sense? Following the > zero-one-infinity principle, having exactly two kinds of process seems a > bit odd. I agree. I just wanted to get the idea out there without proposing a complete POSIX process model. And I found it interesting that we actually could use subclasses without needing special support from the VM. > > Having process grouping would lead to a tree of processes. > > For example, the outermost level could be "system" processes, of which > one was a group containing all "user" processes. > > Or, the outermost level could have two children, one group of "system" > procs, one of "user" procs; or, ... > > The "current process group" would be a kind of dynamic parameter, and > newly-forked processes would by default become siblings of the forker in > the current group. > > Regards, > Tony I think that grouping makes a lot of sense. However, the current model has also served us well, maybe exactly because it is simple. Adding a lot of complexity will not necessarily make things better (especially for newcomers). Maybe thereâs a middle ground where high level processes maintain a very simple API (like Chris proposed) and where you donât have to know about process groups (those processes might just go into a default group, essentially what you describe with âcurrent process group"). Really not sureâ¦ Cheers, Max > > > > On 06/19/2016 05:03 AM, Max Leske wrote: > Hi, > > In Pharo and Squeak we have no separation between processes that > belong to the IDE, tools etc. and processes that are spawned as part > of an application. Iâd like to know your opinion on the following > (rough) idea: > > 1. We introduce two subclasses of Process: SystemProcess and > UserProcess 2. We define #isSystemProcess and #isUserProcess 3. We > introduce #newSystemProcess and #newUserProcess 4. We deprecate > #newProcess and delegate to #newUserProcess (thereby modifying all > users of #forkXXX to yield instances of UserProcess) > > Of the following Iâm less sure: 5. We introduce #forkSystemProcess > et. al > > Iâve tried this out in Pharo 6 and there seem to be no problems with > the VM. The benefit would be improved separation between system and > user space. It would allow us to implement stuff for processes in > general (e.g. for the debugger) which we do not want to affect system > processes like the UI process or the background process. One concrete > example: the process browser could hide all system processes and make > them visible on demand (that would greatly improve the view because > you can now better find your own processes). > > > Iâm looking forward to your comments. > > Cheers, Max

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Re: [Pharo-dev] System and user processe
by Max Leske June 21, 2016

June 21, 2016

> Max Leske wrote >> Hi, >> >> In Pharo and Squeak we have no separation between processes that belong to >> the IDE, tools etc. and processes that are spawned as part of an >> application. Iâd like to know your opinion on the following (rough) idea: >> >> 1. We introduce two subclasses of Process: SystemProcess and UserProcess >> 2. We define #isSystemProcess and #isUserProcess >> 3. We introduce #newSystemProcess and #newUserProcess >> 4. We deprecate #newProcess and delegate to #newUserProcess (thereby >> modifying all users of #forkXXX to yield instances of UserProcess) >> >> Of the following Iâm less sure: >> 5. We introduce #forkSystemProcess et. al >> >> Iâve tried this out in Pharo 6 and there seem to be no problems with the >> VM. The benefit would be improved separation between system and user >> space. It would allow us to implement stuff for processes in general (e.g. >> for the debugger) which we do not want to affect system processes like the >> UI process or the background process. One concrete example: the process >> browser could hide all system processes and make them visible on demand >> (that would greatly improve the view because you can now better find your >> own processes). >> >> >> Iâm looking forward to your comments. >> >> Cheers, >> Max > > Hi Max, > > I like the idea. Let's see... > > System processes in Squeak could be: > - the timer interrupt watcher > - the event tickler > - the low space watcher > - the user interrupt watcher > - the idle process > > I am not so sure about: > - the WeakArray finalization process (still needed for Ephemerons?) > > Then we have the UI framework(s). The frameworks' processes could be user > processes or system processes, too? Hmm... for Morphic, there is only one. > Stepping is implemented with the same UI process. Applications that spawn > other (user) processes work around Morphic anyway. > > Tweak uses (or used) many processes to execute scripts. So, the Tweak UI has > a set of related processes, not just a single UI process. > > MVC has only one process running but creates/terminates processes when > switching controllers. > > If you play a MIDI or a Sound, should that process also be a system process, > right? Hmm... > > Interactive debugging is tricky only with respect to the current UI > framework because you want to be able to also debug that frameworks code and > its applications. While writing the debugger in that framework, too. So, it > is above the level of processes but at the level of the UI framework (resp. > projects). At least in Squeak. > > Hmm... for a filter in the process browser, a simple flag would be enough. > No need to add subclasses. So, whout be the benefits of distinguishing > between UserProcess and SystemProcess at process creation time? How to > decide? Might it be related to additional warnings? Calling "Smalltalk > snapshot: true andQuit: true" from a process in an endless loop might be > detected if you do that from within a UserProcess. :-D > > Maybe introduce restrictions/warnings at the level of message dispatch for > UserProcesses? Hmmâ¦ You essentially get my point. For the process browser a flag would be enough, yes, but thatâs not really OO, is itâ¦ :) Anyway, I see a couple of âdirectâ benefits: - better implementation of user interrupt handling (user processes can always be interrupted) - kill all user processes (system will keep running) - different low space settings for system and user processes (yes, that would probably require a VM change, but stillâ¦) - system processes could be prevented from starving (e.g. a user process must yield at least every n milliseconds) ... > > Best, > Marcel > >

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[pharo-project/pharo-core]
by GitHub June 21, 2016

June 21, 2016

Branch: refs/tags/60102 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

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[pharo-project/pharo-core] 77d8c9: 60102
by GitHub June 21, 2016

June 21, 2016

Branch: refs/heads/6.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 77d8c9c50617f8a7a1778ea13a62b5ce41b49f31 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/77d8c9c50617f8a7a1778ea1… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2016-06-21 (Tue, 21 Jun 2016) Changed paths: M FileSystem-Disk.package/FilePluginPrims.class/instance/encoding primitives/decode_.st M FileSystem-Disk.package/FilePluginPrims.class/instance/encoding primitives/encode_.st M FileSystem-Disk.package/ManifestFileSystemDisk.class/class/meta-data - dependency analyser/manuallyResolvedDependencies.st M Kernel.package/InstructionStream.class/instance/private/nextPc_.st M Kernel.package/InstructionStream.class/instance/scanning/scanFor_.st M Reflectivity-Tools.package/HaltOnceIconStyler.class/instance/defaults/iconBlock_.st M Reflectivity-Tools.package/HaltOnceIconStyler.class/instance/defaults/iconLabelBlock_.st R ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script60101.st A ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script60102.st R ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update60101.st A ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update60102.st M ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st Log Message: ----------- 60102 18544 Replace Old encoders by new Zn encoders in FileSystem-Disk https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18544 18549 Halt Icon Styler doesnt allow disabling the haltonce https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18549 18547 EncoderForSistaV1 bug fix https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18547 http://files.pharo.org/image/60/60102.zip

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[pharo-project/pharo-core] 54018e: 60101
by GitHub June 21, 2016

June 21, 2016

Branch: refs/heads/6.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 54018e830c145b3cdbb74c7cf6b6bbdd83acf56b https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/54018e830c145b3cdbb74c7c… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2016-06-21 (Tue, 21 Jun 2016) Changed paths: R Kernel-Rules.package/FloatReferencesRule.class/instance/running/check_forCriticsDo_ifNone_.st A Kernel-Rules.package/FloatReferencesRule.class/instance/running/check_forCritiquesDo_ifNone_.st A Kernel-Rules.package/OverridesDeprecatedMethodRule.class/README.md A Kernel-Rules.package/OverridesDeprecatedMethodRule.class/class/accessing/uniqueIdentifierName.st A Kernel-Rules.package/OverridesDeprecatedMethodRule.class/class/testing/checksMethod.st A Kernel-Rules.package/OverridesDeprecatedMethodRule.class/definition.st A Kernel-Rules.package/OverridesDeprecatedMethodRule.class/instance/accessing/group.st A 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[pharo-project/pharo-core]
by GitHub June 21, 2016

June 21, 2016

Branch: refs/tags/60101 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

1 0

System and user processes
by Max Leske June 21, 2016

June 21, 2016

Hi, In Pharo and Squeak we have no separation between processes that belong to the IDE, tools etc. and processes that are spawned as part of an application. Iâd like to know your opinion on the following (rough) idea: 1. We introduce two subclasses of Process: SystemProcess and UserProcess 2. We define #isSystemProcess and #isUserProcess 3. We introduce #newSystemProcess and #newUserProcess 4. We deprecate #newProcess and delegate to #newUserProcess (thereby modifying all users of #forkXXX to yield instances of UserProcess) Of the following Iâm less sure: 5. We introduce #forkSystemProcess et. al Iâve tried this out in Pharo 6 and there seem to be no problems with the VM. The benefit would be improved separation between system and user space. It would allow us to implement stuff for processes in general (e.g. for the debugger) which we do not want to affect system processes like the UI process or the background process. One concrete example: the process browser could hide all system processes and make them visible on demand (that would greatly improve the view because you can now better find your own processes). Iâm looking forward to your comments. Cheers, Max

2 2

[pharo-project/pharo-core]
by GitHub June 21, 2016

June 21, 2016

Branch: refs/tags/60100 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

1 0

[pharo-project/pharo-core] 6b13f1: 60100
by GitHub June 21, 2016

June 21, 2016

Branch: refs/heads/6.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 6b13f1fe9dd663ed03f8875f7fe047665ed62f1e https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/6b13f1fe9dd663ed03f8875f… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2016-06-21 (Tue, 21 Jun 2016) Changed paths: A ConfigurationOfFuel.package/ConfigurationOfFuel.class/instance/versions-2/version216_.st M Fuel.package/FLHookPrimitiveCluster.class/instance/serialize%2Fmaterialize/clusterSerializeStepWith_.st M FuelPlatform.package/FLPharo11Platform.class/class/private-extensions-methodcontext/tempNamed_.st A FuelTests.package/FLPluggableSubstitutionTest.class/instance/running/testSubstituteCharacterInPresenceOfSomeCharacter.st A FuelTests.package/FLPluggableSubstitutionTest.class/instance/running/testSubstituteTrueInPresenceOfTheTrueInstance.st A FuelTests.package/FLPluggableSubstitutionTest.class/instance/running/testSubstituteUndefinedObjectInPresenceOfNil.st A FuelTests.package/FLPluggableSubstitutionTest.class/instance/running/testSubstitute_inPresenceOf_.st M Nautilus.package/AbstractNautilusUI.class/definition.st R Nautilus.package/AbstractNautilusUI.class/instance/accessing/classifier.st M Nautilus.package/AbstractNautilusUI.class/instance/menus behavior/categorizeAllUncategorizedMethods.st A Nautilus.package/Nautilus.class/class/accessing/methodClassifierClass.st A Nautilus.package/Nautilus.class/class/accessing/methodClassifierClass_.st M Nautilus.package/Nautilus.class/definition.st A Nautilus.package/Nautilus.class/instance/accessing/classifier.st A Nautilus.package/Nautilus.class/instance/accessing/classifier_.st R ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script60099.st A ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script60100.st R ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update60099.st A ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update60100.st M ScriptLoader60.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st Log Message: ----------- 60100 18545 Update Fuel https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18545 18535 Nautilus should be open to support different method categorizer https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/18535 http://files.pharo.org/image/60/60100.zip

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