- Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-project] The future of Squeak & Pharo
by Janko MivÅ¡ek June 28, 2009

June 28, 2009

Bert Freudenberg pravi: > Randal L. Schwartz wrote: >> At this point, I'd be leaning back towards squeak central >> reintegrating Pharo, >> given that Etoys already forked. > Even disregarding what the Pharo people would think about the idea, > doesn't that argument go both ways? As in "given that Pharo already > forked, Etoys can now be reintegrated to Squeak"? Hardly. Pharo deals with lower levels than EToys, EToys works in top of that core, being Pharo or Squeak. That's why I see Randal's suggestion reasonable and a nice refinement of GÃ¶ran's original "merge" idea. Then one should just adjust EToys on top, or I'm too naive and don't see some technical problem here? Best regards Janko -- Janko MivÅ¡ek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

1 0

Re: [Pharo-project] The future of Squeak & Pharo
by Janko MivÅ¡ek June 28, 2009

June 28, 2009

Ian Trudel pravi: > GÃ¶ran Krampe: >> Not sure what you mean there. > > Squeak is hardly approachable to newcomers (either seasoned > programmers or simple new ones). Gaining popularity explicitly means > to have newcomers. It's not possible if they can't understand what's > going on. > >> Personally I like the colors. I also don't equal "normal" with >> "professional". But such is taste! > > We could certainly debate on tastes but it's perfectly fine that you > like the current colour scheme. However, you're not alone using Squeak > and we have to consider other tastes. > I just mean something approachable (normal look-and-feel), where > people will feel comfortable from the day they start using Squeak > through every other following days. > A professional look-and-feel is probably more about simplicity and > usability. It doesn't need to have colours by truck load. Something > that one can spend countless hours looking at without eyes popping out > of their sockets. And it's about everything... for example, Squeak has > these childish window buttons and so on... it's NOT that cool, far > from being trendy. Why would we get stubborn to keep such things? It > looks like a toy, Squeak sometimes feels like a toy. When I squeeze > Squeak, it squeaks. Just saying... =) I completely agree with Ian here. If Squeak wants to be considered for serious development, but also to attract developers from other communities and newcomers, it must have the look&feel which is close to theirs. This not mean that it must be the same, no, just that it follows the established look&feel standards elsewhere. Current Squeak is far away from that, while Pharo is marching well into a more standard look&feel direction. This is actually one of main reasons I'm attracted to Pharo. Also because they listen to such proposals! But this don't mean that EToys can stay more colorful, no, let it be on top of that more "traditionally professional" base. Why to mix two so different audiences into one image? Janko > And, unless some of us are graphic designers, why not just focus on > something simple, usable and approachable? That's definitively not out > of reach. > >> Note that talking about what we "need" and what other people "want" is not >> really that fruitful. We get what we *do*, or in other words - if someone >> feels it is important enough to spend time on it - it will get done. Noone >> works on something because *someone else* told him to. > > It seems to me that we are crying for direction as a community. Squeak > seems to be lost. Consequently, need, want, do, etc... it's just not > happening. Don't get me wrong, but it's just that you make it sounds > like everything can be done without a plan. And some of the things we > could want requires a lot of work hours and man power. It's not going > to happen overnight. > >>> requirements of my distributors, which makes it overly challenging for >>> me to consider Squeak as our platform of development. >> Elaborate? > > Please, Igor and I have talked a little bit about this. He will > certainly bring that on board's table. Anyway, GÃ¶ran, I hope to be > able to share a complete list at later time. I am not done reviewing > the requirements. It's also challenging to know the status of projects > in Squeak and what has to be done. > > >>> Squeak doesn't need a killer app. It needs to be spruced up and put >>> back on track. Honey moon is over, it's time to get real. >> Hehe, I really don't agree. :) >> >> Squeak *is* real. We already have our killer app (Seaside). We do need to >> clean shit up though (and I am not talking about UI primarily) and get the >> improvement process working. Currently Squeak.org is getting smashed (again, >> I don't have hard numbers, but I think I am right) by Pharo when it comes to >> hard, concrete, nitty gritt work getting done. > > Squeak has a killer app named Seaside. > Ruby has a killer app named Ruby On Rails. > Both are web frameworks, which kills which? > > It doesn't really matter. It's not even about merits. Ruby is still > more approachable language and better documented. And I find it almost > amusing to have a killer app for the web, when one of the strength of > Squeak is multimedia. No, no, I am not trying to flame war here... > just trying to expose few things in order that we can openly discuss > about them. > > Whether you agree or not, Squeak doesn't seem to gain in popularity > and people are flocking out to other forks. That means Squeak is doing > something wrong. Wrong enough to overcome all the "done right". =) > > Regards, > Ian > -- Janko MivÅ¡ek AIDA/Web Smalltalk Web Application Server http://www.aidaweb.si

1 0

[Pharo-project] Pharo image crashes the VM
by Lukas Renggli June 28, 2009

June 28, 2009

Somebody reported on the Seaside bug tracker about a Seaside One-Click image (based on a recent Pharo image) that crashes when trying to open it. http://code.google.com/p/seaside/issues/detail?id=393 I reproduced the problem on my machine and got the crash-log below. Seems to be somehow related to 'primitiveSetPixelSizes' in 'FT2Plugin'. Anybody has an idea what that could be? And how that could be solved? Cheers, Lukas ===================================== Process: Squeak VM Opt [2368] Path: /Applications/Squeak/Squeak 4.1.1beta2U-2.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak VM Opt Identifier: org.squeak.Squeak Version: Squeak VM 4.1.1b2 (4.1.1b2) Code Type: X86 (Native) Parent Process: launchd [129] Date/Time: 2009-06-28 11:39:58.825 +0200 OS Version: Mac OS X 10.5.7 (9J61) Report Version: 6 Anonymous UUID: 29E322B2-1485-4CD8-8566-727E56F50F71 Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGBUS) Exception Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at 0x0000000000000014 Crashed Thread: 0 Thread 0 Crashed: 0 de.impara.FT2Plugin 0x15299ffb FT_Request_Size + 47 (ftobjs.c:2352) 1 de.impara.FT2Plugin 0x1529a13c FT_Set_Pixel_Sizes + 90 (ftobjs.c:2448) 2 de.impara.FT2Plugin 0x1529510c primitiveSetPixelSizes + 172 (FT2Plugin.c:1653) Thread 1: 0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x910642e6 semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 10 1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x910962af _pthread_cond_wait + 1244 2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91097b33 pthread_cond_timedwait_relative_np + 47 3 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x93817d96 TSWaitOnConditionTimedRelative + 246 4 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x93817b76 TSWaitOnSemaphoreCommon + 422 5 ...ple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 0x938489ac TimerThread + 74 6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91095155 _pthread_start + 321 7 libSystem.B.dylib 0x91095012 thread_start + 34 Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (32-bit): eax: 0x00000000 ebx: 0x1529506c ecx: 0x00000340 edx: 0xbfffe6dc edi: 0x000db0f0 esi: 0x0085e800 ebp: 0xbfffe6b8 esp: 0xbfffe690 ss: 0x0000001f efl: 0x00010297 eip: 0x15299ffb cs: 0x00000017 ds: 0x0000001f es: 0x0000001f fs: 0x00000000 gs: 0x00000037 cr2: 0x00000014 Binary Images: 0x1000 - 0x11dfe7 +org.squeak.Squeak Squeak VM 4.1.1b2 (4.1.1b2) <32d82d42f52666d1933dd0072ca15de2> /Applications/Squeak/Squeak 4.1.1beta2U-2.app/Contents/MacOS/Squeak VM Opt 0x15279000 - 0x15279ff0 +com.google.GearsEnabler ??? (1.0) <20412f1ba06afbcd2c45b57bb0af5e68> /Library/InputManagers/GearsEnabler/GearsEnabler.bundle/Contents/MacOS/GearsEnabler 0x1527e000 - 0x1527effe +org.xlife.InquisitorLoader 3.2 (58) <e4877ee4582562d98c95d447c8f77397> /Library/InputManagers/Inquisitor/Inquisitor.bundle/Contents/MacOS/Inquisitor 0x15283000 - 0x15285fff +net.culater.SIMBL 0.8.2 (8) /Library/InputManagers/SIMBL/SIMBL.bundle/Contents/MacOS/SIMBL 0x15291000 - 0x152eefd3 +de.impara.FT2Plugin 2.2.2c52 (2.2.2c52) /Applications/Squeak/Squeak 4.1.1beta2U-2.app/Contents/Resources/FT2Plugin.bundle/Contents/MacOS/FT2Plugin 0x8fe00000 - 0x8fe2db43 dyld 97.1 (???) <100d362e03410f181a34e04e94189ae5> /usr/lib/dyld 0x90003000 - 0x90003ffd com.apple.Accelerate.vecLib 3.4.2 (vecLib 3.4.2) /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/vecLib 0x90004000 - 0x90137fef com.apple.CoreFoundation 6.5.6 (476.18) <2d52bab73660117571bd6486dc318f8e> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation 0x90440000 - 0x9046ffe3 com.apple.AE 402.3 (402.3) <b13bfda0ad9314922ee37c0d018d7de9> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/AE.framework/Versions/A/AE 0x90d2b000 - 0x90d58feb libvDSP.dylib ??? (???) <4daafed78a471133ec30b3ae634b6d3e> /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/libvDSP.dylib 0x90d59000 - 0x90e13fe3 com.apple.CoreServices.OSServices 227 (227) <30cebcb68b1b571df7d77474e0c31556> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OSServices.framework/Versions/A/OSServices 0x90e14000 - 0x90e22ffd libz.1.dylib ??? (???) <a98b3b221a72b54faf73ded3dd7000e5> /usr/lib/libz.1.dylib 0x90e23000 - 0x90e23ff8 com.apple.Cocoa 6.5 (???) <a1bc9247cf65c20f1a44d0973cbe649c> /System/Library/Frameworks/Cocoa.framework/Versions/A/Cocoa 0x90e24000 - 0x90e5efe7 com.apple.coreui 1.2 (62) /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/CoreUI.framework/Versions/A/CoreUI 0x90e5f000 - 0x90e6fffc com.apple.LangAnalysis 1.6.4 (1.6.4) <bc7eb703ddc37bf85adf93e35efd3947> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LangAnalysis.framework/Versions/A/LangAnalysis 0x90e70000 - 0x90e80fff com.apple.speech.synthesis.framework 3.7.1 (3.7.1) <273d96ff861dc68be659c07ef56f599a> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechSynthesis.framework/Versions/A/SpeechSynthesis 0x90ee0000 - 0x90fc1ff7 libxml2.2.dylib ??? (???) <2f6b294896866822330a8888b7f53b75> /usr/lib/libxml2.2.dylib 0x90fc2000 - 0x90fceff9 com.apple.helpdata 1.0.1 (14.2) /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/HelpData.framework/Versions/A/HelpData 0x91002000 - 0x9101aff7 com.apple.CoreVideo 1.6.0 (20.0) <dd60118bac9aefaf88d9ab44558f05c4> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreVideo.framework/Versions/A/CoreVideo 0x9101b000 - 0x9101bfff com.apple.Carbon 136 (136) <4177916bbf70e0ddc446f94001d54c95> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Carbon 0x9101c000 - 0x9105afff libGLImage.dylib ??? (???) <a6425aeb77f4da13212ac75df57b056d> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLImage.dylib 0x9105b000 - 0x91062fff com.apple.agl 3.0.9 (AGL-3.0.9) <2f39c480cfcee9358a23d61b20a6aa56> /System/Library/Frameworks/AGL.framework/Versions/A/AGL 0x91063000 - 0x911caff3 libSystem.B.dylib ??? (???) <b47c8e6e45aef620730710a732bf1930> /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib 0x911cb000 - 0x911e3fff com.apple.openscripting 1.2.8 (???) <0129d2f750f5ddcb92f4acf8a3541952> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/OpenScripting.framework/Versions/A/OpenScripting 0x9134d000 - 0x913a9ff7 com.apple.htmlrendering 68 (1.1.3) <1c5c0c417891b920dfe139385fc6c155> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HTMLRendering.framework/Versions/A/HTMLRendering 0x913c8000 - 0x913defff com.apple.DictionaryServices 1.0.0 (1.0.0) <7d20b8d1fb238c3e71d0fa6fda18c4f7> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/DictionaryServices.framework/Versions/A/DictionaryServices 0x91481000 - 0x91b21fe3 com.apple.CoreGraphics 1.409.3 (???) <25dceb14af3455b768f56e8765ecf3ca> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/CoreGraphics 0x91b55000 - 0x91b55ffa com.apple.CoreServices 32 (32) <373d6a888f9204641f313bc6070ae065> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices 0x91c05000 - 0x91fc3fea libLAPACK.dylib ??? (???) /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/libLAPACK.dylib 0x91ff9000 - 0x924cafbe libGLProgrammability.dylib ??? (???) <7f18294a7bd0b6afe4319f29187fc70d> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLProgrammability.dylib 0x9251c000 - 0x925a3ff7 libsqlite3.0.dylib ??? (???) <3334ea5af7a911637413334154bb4100> /usr/lib/libsqlite3.0.dylib 0x925a4000 - 0x929b4fef libBLAS.dylib ??? (???) /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/libBLAS.dylib 0x929ba000 - 0x92d57fef com.apple.QuartzCore 1.5.8 (1.5.8) <a28fa54346a9f9d5b3bef076a1ee0fcf> /System/Library/Frameworks/QuartzCore.framework/Versions/A/QuartzCore 0x92d58000 - 0x92dfcfec com.apple.CFNetwork 438.10 (438.12) <fde64bbb20532794396fb21911ccaa98> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CFNetwork.framework/Versions/A/CFNetwork 0x92dfd000 - 0x92ea4feb com.apple.QD 3.11.56 (???) <a94d0f5438b730e88e5efdb233295c52> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD 0x92f22000 - 0x92f2ffe7 com.apple.opengl 1.5.10 (1.5.10) <5a2813f80c9441170cc1ab8a3dac5038> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/OpenGL 0x93025000 - 0x93027fff com.apple.securityhi 3.0 (30817) <40562b85d99118354c974e76c32fa6fb> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI 0x93028000 - 0x930a5feb com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 3.1.2 (3.1.2) <5a4e6329f8dbca5dcd70924525afd24a> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreAudio.framework/Versions/A/CoreAudio 0x930a6000 - 0x930f7ff7 com.apple.HIServices 1.7.0 (???) <01b690d1f376e400ac873105533e39eb> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices 0x931c2000 - 0x93308ff7 com.apple.ImageIO.framework 2.0.4 (2.0.4) <b407f06ff9b6893899e2e399cb65c953> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/ImageIO 0x9333c000 - 0x9333cffd com.apple.vecLib 3.4.2 (vecLib 3.4.2) /System/Library/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/vecLib 0x93351000 - 0x93403ffb libcrypto.0.9.7.dylib ??? (???) <9d714c92872a93dd127ea8556b2c8945> /usr/lib/libcrypto.0.9.7.dylib 0x93436000 - 0x934b5ff5 com.apple.SearchKit 1.2.1 (1.2.1) <f28f8dd0f155a6453411a0c9b5702764> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/Versions/A/SearchKit 0x934b6000 - 0x934bffff com.apple.speech.recognition.framework 3.7.24 (3.7.24) <da2d8411921a3fd8bc898dc753b7f3ee> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SpeechRecognition.framework/Versions/A/SpeechRecognition 0x934c0000 - 0x9373cfe7 com.apple.Foundation 6.5.8 (677.24) <aa84b0383891378c348ffa4a94853082> /System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation 0x9373d000 - 0x937edfff edu.mit.Kerberos 6.0.13 (6.0.13) <804bd1b3f08fb57396781f012006367c> /System/Library/Frameworks/Kerberos.framework/Versions/A/Kerberos 0x937ee000 - 0x93ac8ff3 com.apple.CoreServices.CarbonCore 786.11 (786.13) <9e2d85d52e5e2951aa4dd53c48ccc52f> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonCore.framework/Versions/A/CarbonCore 0x93ac9000 - 0x93bb1ff3 com.apple.CoreData 100.2 (186.1) <8fb61e1714a4b8d587ce97605ad32547> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreData.framework/Versions/A/CoreData 0x93be9000 - 0x93c32fef com.apple.Metadata 10.5.2 (398.25) <e0572f20350523116f23000676122a8d> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata 0x93c33000 - 0x93d13fff libobjc.A.dylib ??? (???) <400e943f9e8a678eea22a1d1205490ee> /usr/lib/libobjc.A.dylib 0x93d14000 - 0x93d14ffd com.apple.Accelerate 1.4.2 (Accelerate 1.4.2) /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Accelerate 0x93d15000 - 0x93d2affb com.apple.ImageCapture 5.0.2 (5.0.2) /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture 0x93d2b000 - 0x93e64ff7 libicucore.A.dylib ??? (???) <cac059ebdac7d9a63ee0f7a648c9f6cf> /usr/lib/libicucore.A.dylib 0x93e65000 - 0x93ebeff7 libGLU.dylib ??? (???) <a3b9be30100a25a6cd3ad109892f52b7> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLU.dylib 0x93edc000 - 0x93f07fe7 libauto.dylib ??? (???) <2e44c523b851e8e25f05d13a48070a58> /usr/lib/libauto.dylib 0x93f08000 - 0x93f27ffa libJPEG.dylib ??? (???) <b822342bcc764c83d4557a8b67fa0c1c> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libJPEG.dylib 0x93f28000 - 0x93f28ffc com.apple.audio.units.AudioUnit 1.5 (1.5) /System/Library/Frameworks/AudioUnit.framework/Versions/A/AudioUnit 0x93f29000 - 0x94727fef com.apple.AppKit 6.5.7 (949.46) <a80f8cb62f6bdcb3bed3c8675d55881d> /System/Library/Frameworks/AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit 0x94728000 - 0x947b2fe3 com.apple.DesktopServices 1.4.8 (1.4.8) <3065de6531ce839c7cb5b6dd70e03f4f> /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/DesktopServicesPriv.framework/Versions/A/DesktopServicesPriv 0x947b3000 - 0x94846ff3 com.apple.ApplicationServices.ATS 3.7 (???) <a535fc4982d3acff6530ec25c402e679> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/ATS 0x94847000 - 0x94b4ffff com.apple.HIToolbox 1.5.5 (???) <b17766e3d8800a73f534c41f624f5ac4> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox 0x94f0a000 - 0x94f4bfe7 libRIP.A.dylib ??? (???) <69bd09fcd8d8b235cee7a405290d6818> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libRIP.A.dylib 0x94f4c000 - 0x94f58ffe libGL.dylib ??? (???) /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib 0x9503b000 - 0x95056ffb libPng.dylib ??? (???) <0d6b991afc831ea06f2958e5933d33dd> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib 0x95057000 - 0x95057ffb com.apple.installserver.framework 1.0 (8) /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/InstallServer.framework/Versions/A/InstallServer 0x95110000 - 0x95117fe9 libgcc_s.1.dylib ??? (???) <e280ddf3f5fb3049e674edcb109f389a> /usr/lib/libgcc_s.1.dylib 0x95118000 - 0x95195fef libvMisc.dylib ??? (???) /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/libvMisc.dylib 0x95270000 - 0x95270ff8 com.apple.ApplicationServices 34 (34) <ee7bdf593da050bb30c7a1fc446eb8a6> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices 0x95271000 - 0x95597fe2 com.apple.QuickTime 7.6.2 (1327) <3754e41d846b7948f96c9ec4c690b520> /System/Library/Frameworks/QuickTime.framework/Versions/A/QuickTime 0x95598000 - 0x9565fff2 com.apple.vImage 3.0 (3.0) /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vImage.framework/Versions/A/vImage 0x95660000 - 0x95664fff libGIF.dylib ??? (???) <7714ae24eb64b48fa719fb99bcbe34f3> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libGIF.dylib 0x956a7000 - 0x956e9fef com.apple.NavigationServices 3.5.2 (163) <72cdc9d21f6690837870923e7b8ca358> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/NavigationServices.framework/Versions/A/NavigationServices 0x956ea000 - 0x956f1ffe libbsm.dylib ??? (???) <fa7ae5f1a621d9b69e7e18747c9405fb> /usr/lib/libbsm.dylib 0x956f2000 - 0x956f3ffc libffi.dylib ??? (???) <eaf10b99a3fbc4920b175809407466c0> /usr/lib/libffi.dylib 0x95719000 - 0x95723feb com.apple.audio.SoundManager 3.9.2 (3.9.2) <df077a8048afc3075c6f2d9e7780e78e> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonSound.framework/Versions/A/CarbonSound 0x95724000 - 0x9574cff7 com.apple.shortcut 1.0.1 (1.0) <131202e7766e327d02d55c0f5fc44ad7> /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/Shortcut.framework/Versions/A/Shortcut 0x9574d000 - 0x95771fff libxslt.1.dylib ??? (???) <0a9778d6368ae668826f446878deb99b> /usr/lib/libxslt.1.dylib 0x95772000 - 0x95805fff com.apple.ink.framework 101.3 (86) <d4c85b5cafa8027fff042b84a8be71dc> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink 0x95806000 - 0x95811fe7 libCSync.A.dylib ??? (???) <9e3544fe087bb4dc760b7afe0850dd6c> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libCSync.A.dylib 0x95812000 - 0x9586cff7 com.apple.CoreText 2.0.4 (???) <f0b6c1d4f40bd21505097f0255abfead> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText 0x9586d000 - 0x958caffb libstdc++.6.dylib ??? (???) <f75e5133d72769de5ce6c06153fc65f6> /usr/lib/libstdc++.6.dylib 0x958cb000 - 0x958cefff com.apple.help 1.1 (36) <1a25a8fbb49a830efb31d5c0a52939cd> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help 0x958cf000 - 0x958d7fff com.apple.DiskArbitration 2.2.1 (2.2.1) <2664eeb3a4d0c95a21c089892a0ae8d0> /System/Library/Frameworks/DiskArbitration.framework/Versions/A/DiskArbitration 0x958f0000 - 0x95927fff com.apple.SystemConfiguration 1.9.2 (1.9.2) <eab546255ac099b9616df999c9359d0e> /System/Library/Frameworks/SystemConfiguration.framework/Versions/A/SystemConfiguration 0x95928000 - 0x95af9ffb com.apple.security 5.0.5 (36371) <c13e0bb1acfdcf94be4d3ee118ef190e> /System/Library/Frameworks/Security.framework/Versions/A/Security 0x95b17000 - 0x95b40fff libcups.2.dylib ??? (???) <1b0435164b9dc6c773d0b1f24701e554> /usr/lib/libcups.2.dylib 0x95c36000 - 0x95c54fff libresolv.9.dylib ??? (???) <9ed809256ce8913cddc3269c2e364654> /usr/lib/libresolv.9.dylib 0x96c31000 - 0x96c33ff5 libRadiance.dylib ??? (???) <82d606c49f5dc77231f9d0e2be9ed6ab> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libRadiance.dylib 0x96cf2000 - 0x96cf9ff7 libCGATS.A.dylib ??? (???) <211348279493364e9920adc86484cedd> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libCGATS.A.dylib 0x96cfd000 - 0x96d3cfef libTIFF.dylib ??? (???) <d4bcc9b9c508e53849d2d46bb6900922> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libTIFF.dylib 0x96d3d000 - 0x96d43fff com.apple.print.framework.Print 218.0.3 (220.2) <5b7f4ef7c2df36aff9605377775781e4> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print 0x96f02000 - 0x96f07fff com.apple.CommonPanels 1.2.4 (85) <c135f02edd6b2e2864311e0b9d08a98d> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CommonPanels.framework/Versions/A/CommonPanels 0x96f08000 - 0x96fd3fff com.apple.ColorSync 4.5.1 (4.5.1) /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ColorSync.framework/Versions/A/ColorSync 0x96fde000 - 0x97130ff3 com.apple.audio.toolbox.AudioToolbox 1.5.2 (1.5.2) /System/Library/Frameworks/AudioToolbox.framework/Versions/A/AudioToolbox 0x971a4000 - 0x9721eff8 com.apple.print.framework.PrintCore 5.5.4 (245.6) <03d0585059c20cb0bde5e000438c49e1> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore 0x973af000 - 0x973b3fff libmathCommon.A.dylib ??? (???) /usr/lib/system/libmathCommon.A.dylib 0x973b4000 - 0x97440ff7 com.apple.LaunchServices 290.3 (290.6) <bdba267184df88bd5b8e2116ea903872> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/LaunchServices.framework/Versions/A/LaunchServices 0x97441000 - 0x974cdff7 com.apple.framework.IOKit 1.5.2 (???) <97b9f9d584f48891377f0481b9104434> /System/Library/Frameworks/IOKit.framework/Versions/A/IOKit 0xfffe8000 - 0xfffebfff libobjc.A.dylib ??? (???) /usr/lib/libobjc.A.dylib 0xffff0000 - 0xffff1780 libSystem.B.dylib ??? (???) /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib ===================================== -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

2 1

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] The future of Squeak & Pharo (was Re: [ANN] Pharo MIT license clean)
by GÃ¶ran Krampe June 28, 2009

June 28, 2009

Hi! Casimiro de Almeida Barreto wrote: > Em 28-06-2009 07:23, GÃ¶ran Krampe escreveu: >> (...) >> Possibly true, but Smalltalk, Squeak, Etoys and even Croquet have been >> around for quite some time now - and we haven't seen any real >> explosion yet. Croquet was meant to "explode" but hasn't. So I am not >> holding my breath for "the day Squeak gets popular" :) >> > I guess there are several issues when "explosion" (in the sense of wide > acceptance & popularity) is a target for a project. I'll enumerate some > of them that came to my mind: Note that *I* don't really care for any "explosion". I was merely saying that waiting for it to happen in order to gain something from it - is probably foolish :) [SNIP of 1-5] Note: I don't agree with that list, but I get your point. > IMHO Squeak.org "stillness" is happening because a point was reached > when boring work is necessary. IMHO the board should be looking for Nah, how come Pharo is doing all those things then?? I don't agree. > corporate support in order to have resources to support the "boring > work". As an example: some years ago there was momentum for the use of I generally do not agree with those that think "corporate support" or "paid work" is the solution. Sorry, I just don't. I just want a Squeak that I can use and help improve and that has a reasonable commit process, some nice goals and a reasonable leadership. :) I don't want a company deciding what happens with Squeak. Definitely not. > Again, a key issue is that perhaps there is just not enough people to > support splitting projects. Again, IMHO that is one the issues that > complicated the life of croquet. Not to mention that much of croquet > related to 3D optimization and acceleration in cross platform > environment... That I can agree with - we are quite few. >> Oh, and a final note: >> >> But what if Squeak.org is abandoned and everyone moves to Pharo, what >> is so bad about letting that happen? It is NOT bad. But I think we >> could do it in a smoother way and actually turn this into something >> *positive*. The merge could be turned into a real BOOST to Squeak/Pharo. > If everybody goes to Pharo it won't necessarily be a problem. The > problem will be if key people stand in one side or the other. Right... So I didn't disagree with *everything* you wrote :) regards, GÃ¶ran

1 0

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] The future of Squeak & Pharo (was Re: [ANN] Pharo MIT license clean)
by GÃ¶ran Krampe June 28, 2009

June 28, 2009

Hi! Ian Trudel wrote: > 2009/6/28 GÃ¶ran Krampe <goran(a)krampe.se>: >> Possibly true, but Smalltalk, Squeak, Etoys and even Croquet have been >> around for quite some time now - and we haven't seen any real explosion yet. >> Croquet was meant to "explode" but hasn't. So I am not holding my breath for >> "the day Squeak gets popular" :) > > Sometimes being popular means doing normal things. Smalltalk is an > unusual programming language (in the sense of mainstream) with an > overly eccentric environment in Squeak. Then there are Croquet, Etoys, > and so on. It's hardly a break through if it's only "more" eccentric > than eccentric. Don't you think? Not sure what you mean there. > The look-and-feel is designed for children. It's colourful, joyful, it > bleeps and blink. How many professional developers are children? How > many children are on this list? Enough with that already! Can we have > a normal look-and-feel? A professional look-and-feel. =) Personally I like the colors. I also don't equal "normal" with "professional". But such is taste! > Squeak is stuck in some time warp, where the surrounding world is on > stand still. It should however consider that we are living in 2009 and > have needs of 2009. We need a different usability, developer tools and > we have different goals. Note that talking about what we "need" and what other people "want" is not really that fruitful. We get what we *do*, or in other words - if someone feels it is important enough to spend time on it - it will get done. Noone works on something because *someone else* told him to. > For example, Squeak hardly support the > requirements of my distributors, which makes it overly challenging for > me to consider Squeak as our platform of development. Elaborate? > Squeak doesn't need a killer app. It needs to be spruced up and put > back on track. Honey moon is over, it's time to get real. Hehe, I really don't agree. :) Squeak *is* real. We already have our killer app (Seaside). We do need to clean shit up though (and I am not talking about UI primarily) and get the improvement process working. Currently Squeak.org is getting smashed (again, I don't have hard numbers, but I think I am right) by Pharo when it comes to hard, concrete, nitty gritt work getting done. regards, GÃ¶ran

2 1

Re: [Pharo-project] [squeak-dev] The future of Squeak & Pharo (was Re: [ANN] Pharo MIT license clean)
by GÃ¶ran Krampe June 28, 2009

June 28, 2009

Hi! StÃ©phane Rollandin wrote: > My point of view: > > Pharo people weren't happy with the way Squeak was developed, so they > started their own project and now its development goes well: good for > them. It seems like a lot of people are actually interested and working > in Pharo; again: good for them. "Them" is the wrong word. It is rather "a lot of us". And "good for us". > Now I do like Squeak better, so I stayed here (beside, it would be a > hell of a work to port my code to Pharo, with all the "cleaning up" that > happened there). There is always work in porting over to new versions of Squeak. If we cross pollinate then you will end up facing the exact same issue. And also, you can always "lag" a release or two - quite common for larger projects. > Why should I even consider letting Squeak die, or > merging it into Pharo? Because if the "trend" I am perceiving (I may be wrong) continues then there will be very few of us left working on the Squeak 3.10 lineage under the Squeak.org flag. And the fewer there are the more likely they will jump over too. > Of course cross-pollination between the two > project is something worth reaching for, but I can't see how Squeak > doing harakiri is an adequate response to this challenge. Well, if you consider a merge to be harakiri - then I agree it sounds frightening :) > Squeak development slowed down quite a bit. So what ? That's something > we can discuss here in squeak-dev. No urge to surrender to Pharo IMHO. IMHO this kind of phrasing and thinking - "urge to surrender" etc, is the wrong way of looking at it. It is not some kind of war! Remember that before Pharo was started all those developers were working on Squeak. We are ALL Squeakers. We ALL want Squeak in the large sense to move on and improve. We all want a good solid base to do our work in, and a nice community to share. We all want fast turnaround on bug fixes and contributions etc. I just want us to do the *smart* thing here. regards, GÃ¶ran

1 0

[Pharo-project] [ANN] Pharo MIT license clean
by Adrian Lienhard June 28, 2009

June 28, 2009

Hi all, With the latest update, #10343, we have reached an important step towards Pharo 1.0. There is no method left in Pharo-core that is not license clean [1]. Methods from people that did not sign the agreement or did not release their code under SqueakL were removed or rewritten. There is a wiki page that describes how I did the audit [2]. Thanks to Gabriel for his help. Cheers, Adrian [1] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/ResultofRelicensing [2] http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/LicenseCleanEffort ___________________ http://www.adrian-lienhard.ch/

10 14

Re: [Pharo-project] FFI problem
by Mariano Martinez Peck June 28, 2009

June 28, 2009

On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Andreas Raab <andreas.raab(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > >> Download latest Windows VM (Squeak 3.11.2) from Pharo webpage. Then >> evaluate ScriptLoader loadFFI and try to run FFI tests. The image will >> crash! >> > > Interesting. This appears to be a Pharo-only problem. I ran the FFI tests > using the 3.11.2 VM on the current 3.10.2 release image and they works fine. > I've also ran the test against a 3.10.2 closure converted image (on the > off-chance that it might be closure related) and the tests pass too. So I > don't really think it's an FFI problem. You'll probably have to ask Pharo > people to help you with the problem; the FFI appears to be fully functional > on both pre- and post-closure images. > Ok. Pharo people is in this mail. Let's wait if someone can help us. I don't know why in mi Windows machine the dump file is not generated :( Benoit St-Jean can you attach the complete dump file? I tried this in Linux and it doesn't crash my image. So, only windows :( Cheers, Mariano > > Cheers, > - Andreas >

2 1

[Pharo-project] World menu on right-click only
by Janko MivÅ¡ek June 27, 2009

June 27, 2009

Dear Pharoers, Noticing that you already managed to cleanup a lot of usability mess, what if you start tackling this one too: - main World menu on left-click is not intuitive, we all expect such menus on right-click instead. But there actually is a World menu on right-click, just that it contains a stuff I never ever used yet. This probably means that it is not very important and it can rather go to submenus, while the top menu level can actually contain the stuff from left-click World menu. Joining both menus seems therefore possible and that way you'll be one step closer to the normal world on usability terms. Just a few thoughts for a post 1.0 episode .... Janko -- Janko MivÅ¡ek Svetovalec za informatiko Eranova d.o.o. Ljubljana, Slovenija www.eranova.si tel: 01 514 22 55 faks: 01 514 22 56 gsm: 031 674 565

2 1

[Pharo-project] Fwd: [Seaside] [Ann] Meteoroid, a MVC framework for the web using Comet
by Andrey Larionov June 27, 2009

June 27, 2009

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: santiago robles <santiagorobles(a)gmail.com> Date: Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 19:19 Subject: Re: [Seaside] [Ann] Meteoroid, a MVC framework for the web using Comet To: Seaside - general discussion <seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> Hello, we are working on a new version of Meteoroid which includes more tests, more fancy examples and some bug fixes. Besides that, I am working on a port to Squeak/Pharo. Currently, it works on Seaside2.8 with Swazoo2.1, but there are some problems to fix yet. I am doing it in my free time so I will finish it in a few weeks, but any help is more than welcome. Taking advantage this mail, I have some questions that can help me to do it quicker. 1)I am interested on making the port to the same versions of Swazoo (version 2.2) and Seaside (version 2.8), that are the same versions that we use in the Meteoroid VW version. Is there any Seaside-Adapters-Swazoo for Swazoo2.2 and Seaside2.8? because I couldn't find it, the ones I found were for Seaside2.9 and Swazoo2.2. 2)Anyone knows if is there any ValueModel port for Squeak or Pharo? I hope my answer fill your expectations. Santiago Robles 2009/6/25 Sungjin Chun <chunsj(a)embian.com> > > Me too. :-) > > On Jun 25, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Andrey Larionov wrote: > >> Can you export sources from STORE and put in some place for interested >> in porting parties? >> Thanks. >> >> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 17:09, santiago robles<santiagorobles(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> Thanks for your answers. I am one of the people who made Meteoroid. >>> Yes, it is for VisualWorks only. For the moment, we are not going to make a >>> port to Squeak, because we are focussed on adding a layer which will bind >>> ValueModels and HTML widgets to abstract more the idea of Comet. >>> Maybe, if we finish this layer quickly we will make a port to Squeak/Pharo + >>> Swazoo. We can also help others to port it into Squeak if somebody is >>> interested. We think that port it to Squeak/Pharo + Swazoo will not be very >>> difficult, except for the Announcement part because we have to select an >>> Announcement implementation for Squeak/Pharo (and we do not know which is >>> "the right one"). >>> Cheers, >>> Santiago Robles >>> >>> 2009/5/21 "S.J.Chun" <chunsj(a)embian.com> >>>> >>>> Only for VW? not for squeaak, right? >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> seaside mailing list >>>> seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >>>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> seaside mailing list >>> seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> seaside mailing list >> seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org >> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside >> > > _______________________________________________ > seaside mailing list > seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org > http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside _______________________________________________ seaside mailing list seaside(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/seaside

1 0