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Re: [Pharo-project] #< if at first you dont succeed..
by kend Aug. 15, 2009

Aug. 15, 2009

Schwab,Wilhelm K > You seem determined to have the behavior of Float change when the complex > package is installed, and there are various objections to that from > multiple people; those objections are well founded. My interpretation of the responses I have received is "Change breaks History, we have a strong history" not "these suggestions are worse approximations to mathematics". I accept the first reasoning for Squeak. Squeak supports history (backward compatible) at the expense of, e.g., ANSI Smalltalk closures. Pharo has a slightly different goal set and speaks of "reinventing Smalltalk". I believe the changes I suggested better approximate mathematics and logic. I would prefer to see arguments that I am doing bad math, not that "doing better math is a change that we don't want". Once again, the discussion here implies that the Complex class should be removed from Pharo-Core into its own Package. ====== BTW, I fail too see the logic that (-4 sqrt) raises an exception but that (-3 ln) answers a NaN. I would expect both cases to raise exceptions. Any hints on why this is the case? Perhaps both cases should raise and exception with the option to load a/the Complex package? ====== Thanks again for your thoughtful consideration and input, -KenD

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[Pharo-project] Question about Socket
by Mariano Martinez Peck Aug. 15, 2009

Aug. 15, 2009

Hi folks: I am preparing my SqueakDBX talk for ESUG and I am doing some comparisons between a database driver with an external library trough FFI and a native driver. I know FFI locks the VM until the function it is being invoked, finishes. But I don't know what happens with Sockets. Do sockets lock the hole VM until you obtain a response? Thanks for any light in this field. Best, Mariano

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Re: [Pharo-project] Complex number support discussion
by Ken.Dickey Aug. 15, 2009

Aug. 15, 2009

> I have no power over Ken; he can build what he wants. I would like to see > his energy directed toward creating something we can all use. I suggest a > layered proposal on the wiki and up or down votes on what becomes part of > Pharo. If the vote(s) split, we have benevolent dictators to sort it out. Bill, Many thanks. I had missed the reference to "wiki" on http://pharo-project.org/community and did not see mention on http://pharo-project.org/documentation/faq or http://pharo-project.org/about/organization Up to now I had seen zero references to proper process. In particular, I would have followed http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/HowToContribute rather than dumping code here. I'll be happy to use the wiki for a proposal. Other contributor newbie suggestions welcomed. If nobody tells me I don't know. Thanks again, -KenD

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[Pharo-project] Networking - how much experience/testing is happening?
by Schwab,Wilhelm K Aug. 15, 2009

Aug. 15, 2009

Hello all, Are any of you doing extensive networking with Pharo? IMHO, Seaside connections to a local copy of apache does not really count, since it won't be as likely to see dropped connections and other challenges. I ask because I have LDAPlayer talking to UF's server, and had Pharo lock up something awful. This was over a pre-production vpn connection from home, and on a not-really-supported 64 bit system tricked into running the 32 bit client. I'm not sure how stable all of that is. Still, I had to dust off the end-process button; cmd-. brought up debuggers, but those were unresponsive too. Andreas Raab mentioned a snag with LDAPlayer not reacting well to network errors, so that might have been the problem. Still, I can see the ldap worker thread going nuts, but the UI thread??? If it's a fluke, fine; if this happens in real use, we have a problem. Bill

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[Pharo-project] #< if at first you dont succeed..
by Ken.Dickey Aug. 14, 2009

Aug. 14, 2009

On Aug 14, 2009, at 5:38 PM, Ken.Dickey wrote: > Squeak and Pharo already have some incompatabilities (e.g. not > requiring #initialize after #new). I do agree that dialect > compatibility is a good thing in general. St?phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> > no this is the same in squeak and pharo since 3.7 Right. In this case, Squeak and Pharo together differ from Smalltalk-80, not from each other. Badly phrased. Sorry. -KenD

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Re: [Pharo-project] #< if at first you dont succeed..
by Ken.Dickey Aug. 14, 2009

Aug. 14, 2009

"Schwab,Wilhelm K" <bschwab(a)anest.ufl.edu> > Treating reals as complex (giving them a zero imaginary part) is a bad > idea. Â Reasons include: > > (1) need float and double for FFI ?? > (2) compatibility with other dialects Squeak and Pharo already have some invompatabilities (e.g. not requiring #initialize after #new). I do agree that dialect compatibility is a good thing in general. > (3) avoid wasting space to hold unneeded imaginary parts No need for extra space. Number>>real ^self Number>>imaginary ^0 > Sig is correct to point out that sometimes one wants to do purely real > arithmetic with the domains of various functions restricted as appropriate. > Â Complex numbers should be separate from reals. I think that this might be approached differently. Thought experiment. I have a Smalltalk without negative numbers (How can you take something away from nothing? Screen pixels start at 0@0 I can't draw pixels off-screen! If I get "negative" pixels I have to check every pixel calculation to see if I am on screen or not.). So now I make a package which supplies NegativeNumbers. The argument is that this changes the behavior which people rely on (breaks existing code) and that nobody uses these imaginary negative things anyway. Should one not allow this package? Note that again, for consistency, I suggest that making Complex a package implies removing the current Complex implementation. If a Complex package exists, I expect (-1 sqrt) to give 1i. My intent is for consistency. Packages allow for completeness. Can we both be happy? $0.02, -KenD

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[Pharo-project] combo box?
by Gabriel Brunstein Aug. 14, 2009

Aug. 14, 2009

anybody know how to do a combo box in pharo? any example to look?

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[Pharo-project] Smalltalk Complex
by Ken.Dickey Aug. 14, 2009

Aug. 14, 2009

Coming from Scheme and Lisp, where (sqrt -4) is expected to work, I was surprised to find it "broken" in Squeak when I first tried it out. [Some years ago now]. I noted Smalltalk in a list of languages implementing complex numbers; http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Complex_numbers#Smalltalk Unfortunately, my laptop died and is now in pieces on my desk while I try and resurrect it. Perhaps some kind soul will look at GNU Smalltalk's library and see what they do. Note that GNU Smalltalk files in a 'Complex' package first. Other Smalltalk examples? Thanks much, -KenD

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[Pharo-project] host menu sends deprecated author method
by Michael Roberts Aug. 14, 2009

Aug. 14, 2009

http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=1069. couldn't find an issue on the tracker but i'm sure someone else has seen this? just launch the latest pharo image from the download page and triggered within a few seconds. cs uploaded. thanks, Mike

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[Pharo-project] #< if at first you dont succeed..
by Ken.Dickey Aug. 14, 2009

Aug. 14, 2009

OK, here is a strict version. Complex>>< only compares numbers on the real or imaginal axis and throws an "incomparable" error otherwise. The ComplexTest>>textCompare checks obvious cases. Is this version (more) acceptable? As usual, please feel free to correct (or send me corrections) for better coding style (e.g a shorter/better error message) as well as any dumbness on my part. Cheers, -KenD ------------------------Complex < other "Can only compare with pure real or imaginary parts" ((self imaginary = 0) and: [other imaginary = 0]) ifTrue: [^ self real < other real] ifFalse: [((self real = 0) and: [other real = 0]) ifTrue: [^self imaginary < other imaginary] ifFalse: [ArithmeticError new signal: 'Complex numbers are not generally comparable'.] ] ------------------------

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