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[Pharo-project] Hello squeakers
by stephane ducasse March 27, 2010

March 27, 2010

Dear Squeakers I want to send you a message because I estimate Squeakers and I want to open the door to see how new relationship can be build. So consider that as an open hand - even if my english may let you think otherwise. First, Pharo is not against Squeak. We forked because we believed that we could not make Squeak move in any coherent direction. We are sure that you understand our reasons. Just think a moment about the amount of time and energy we invested in Squeak in the past (I wrote more than anybody else books on squeak, build tutorials, lecture support, videos....- with esug over the years we spent more than 30 kEuros in Squeak related actions) so deciding to go for Pharo was not an easy choice but a necessary one: At one point I was thinking to quit Smalltalk and go to see Ruby and Python for real. Pharo is the only way that I get back my fun in Smalltalk. So what are my dreams? For Pharo ====== We want a clean, lean and fast Smalltalk. An implementation that makes other dynamic language jealous. We want a place where we/you can innovate. We want people to be able to invent THEIR future. We want a place where people can make money with it and build robust applications. Being able to experiment fast is important but for that the system should be clean, robust and flexible. Having a platform for experimentation requires that the platform is not experimental. About innovation I mean in no order: Support for multitouch screen, bootstrappable Smalltalk, immutability bit and its impact, ephemerons, new module system?, first class instance variables, using traits for real (like in ruby where any class can be a model without inheriting from model), VAT-like system?, event system like in AmbiantTalk?, I put ? because some of these should be implemented assessed tested... and understood deeply. About clean Clean network, clean event system, clean object kernel, better compiler (open - we got first class instance variable with no runtime penalties in one afternoon). Clean class builder... Now enough about Pharo. http://www.pharo-project.org/ About Etoys ======== I love Etoys (we translated the book and did more presentations of etoys than most squeakers) but I do not like its implementation. Why? Because it is bad. Any body that looks at it knows it. When I removed Etoys part from Pharo I'm sad but there is no other choices. Now it does not mean that I'm against Etoys and Etoys has the Etoys 40 image (note that we collected in 3.9 most of the etoys fixes with little support from Etoyers which forked way before, we did the same with the fixes of diego of Smalltalk). But again you can judge otherwise. About the ranting or the little war between Squeak and Pharo ====================================== Frankly I'm tired about us ranting against Squeak/andreas/... and the inverse. For example Traits are cool, Javascript and PHP will probably have them as Perl-6, Scala, Fortress. Now Squeak can remove them. I have no problem with that. Seriously this is your decision. People in squeak-dev can freely say negative points about me if this helps. I decided that I will not rant nor get negative feelings about that. I found the red pill :) *I* decided that I want to head to the future. So we will not rant nor make any bad statement about the past anymore. Not even report history or on old facts: if you were there you should remember, else there is the archive :). This is my last mail on the past. Frankly I have the best job I can dream about. I'm lucky just check my h-index for the fun, I have more than most researchers I know. In addition, I loved working and learning from people like lukas, adrian, nicolas, levente, marcus, ..... The next 10 years should be the best of my life and I will take advantage of that. I want to have **10/15** years of pure fun and I will do it. I want and will create positive energy. Look at ESUG we are doing a great job. About cross dialect energy ================= Now the key point of this mail. I **deeply** appreciate the attitude of people like nicolas, levente, and igor that do not bash us and help Pharo but also Squeak. I sent this message mainly because of their attitude. I'm sad to see all this (their) energy duplicated. We cleaned and improved a lot Pharo over the last two years (more than you may think) and we will continue. Squeak could have benefitted from it. Nicolas luckily for you pushed a lot of our fixes in Squeak already. I'm getting the fixes of Squeak that are interesting for Pharo. Now depending on the Squeak vision we could share some common things. May be we can build a better future together but not at all price. You see our goals is to get a clean, lean, flexible and robust system. If you want to share something with us let us know. You know now the vision of Pharo. Squeak may want to compete with us too. This is ok too. If you want to help us building our vision you are welcome. Our logo is a lighthouse and it means that it will stand and last long because it has to guide boats. So we will continue Pharo against tempests and giant waves :) https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/26678/pharoVideo.zip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2LeNBY_5gk The video is really cool (dan this is the one you wanted on waves). Stef

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[Pharo-project] Stateful Traits Literature
by Stefan Marr March 26, 2010

March 26, 2010

Hi: A bit off-topic but I think the experts are here, so: Is there somewhere an overview of all traits proposal related to the handling of state? Possibly with a nice taxonomy and visualization? Thanks Stefan -- Stefan Marr Software Languages Lab Vrije Universiteit Brussel Pleinlaan 2 / B-1050 Brussels / Belgium http://soft.vub.ac.be/~smarr Phone: +32 2 629 2974 Fax: +32 2 629 3525

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[Pharo-project] Student internships at INRIA
by Marcus Denker March 26, 2010

March 26, 2010

Hi, Besides Postdocs, PhDs and Engineers, we are looking for student interns. INRIA has a program for Students to work in a research group as an Intern. Application is open now. http://www-direction.inria.fr/international/PROGRAMMES/internship/indexAPPE… More information in english: http://www-direction.inria.fr/international/Page_Programmes_en.php?prog=int… Subjects: http://www-direction.inria.fr/international/PHP/Internship/CandidatsII.php The ones of RMoD are: - Flexible Modules for Dynamic Languages - Layer Identification and Diagnotics - Trait-based Remodularisation - Minimal Smalltalk Runtime Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

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[Pharo-project] [update 1.1] #11296
by StÃ©phane Ducasse March 26, 2010

March 26, 2010

11296 ----- Issue 2208: Preferences setting * range setting: bad widget height in the SettingBrowser * improve TimeProfiler (MorphTreeMorph example) * remove resurrected Preferences references

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[Pharo-project] Open Monticello http repository d'ont answer
by Dario Trussardi March 26, 2010

March 26, 2010

Hi, i work with pharo1.0-10509. I d'ont understand because but yesterday after some work, when i do the command to open a specific Monticello http repository the image 'do in loop' and don't answer anything. I need to force the image system shutdown . I have test with one hold image and all work fine in the same notebook. I using http repository and i have problem with all http repository. Yesterday i do some work with GMStaticMapGeocoding and begin with this problematic. Now when submit one GMStaticMapGeocoding request i have the same problem. I think to have problem relative to http support ( but i don't know it ). It's possible to have http in wrong state ? I can reset something about connections system in pharo ? Another point : when the pharo user interface don't answer, but for example the kom request go i can interrupt a user interface running process ? On MacBook i press the CMD - but the system don't change . Thanks for any considerations, Dario

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[Pharo-project] Fwd: [squeak-dev] Hello squeakers
by GermÃ¡n Arduino March 26, 2010

March 26, 2010

Sorry, forgot reply-all.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: GermÃ¡n Arduino <garduino(a)gmail.com> Date: 2010/3/26 Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Hello squeakers To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> Hi Stef: I'm one of the guys being in both lists and trying to follow the two things and appreciating things of both and your mail is really very very good on my pov. I also appreciate the effort of people contributing with a positive attitude on Squeak AND Pharo, as the guys you mentioned. And don't forget Dale doing the same and several others. The Smalltalk community itself is so little, more little is the squeak/pharo and I think we can't afford not cooperate among us. I also vote for a long period of fun ahead, doing Squeak/Pharo or Pharo/Squeak :) GermÃ¡n. 2010/3/26 Bert Freudenberg <bert(a)freudenbergs.de>: > On 26.03.2010, at 12:17, stephane ducasse wrote: >> >> Dear Squeakers >> >> I want to send you a message because I estimate Squeakers and I want to open the door to see how new relationship can be build. >> So consider that as an open hand - even if my english may let you think otherwise. >> >> Â Â Â First, Pharo is not against Squeak. We forked because we believed that we could not make Squeak move in any coherent direction. We are sure >> Â Â Â that you understand our reasons. Â Just think a moment about the amount of time and energy we invested in Squeak in the >> Â Â Â past (I wrote more than anybody else books on squeak, build tutorials, lecture support, videos....- with esug over the years we spent more than >> Â Â Â 30 kEuros in Squeak related actions) so deciding to go for Pharo was not an easy choice but a necessary one: At one point I was thinking to quit >> Â Â Â Smalltalk and go to see Ruby and Python for real. Pharo is the only way that I get back my fun in Smalltalk. >> >> Â Â Â So what are my dreams? >> >> For Pharo >> ====== >> Â Â Â We want a clean, lean and fast Smalltalk. An implementation that makes other dynamic language jealous. >> Â Â Â We want a place where we/you can innovate. We want people to be able to invent THEIR future. >> Â Â Â We want a place where people can make money with it and build robust applications. >> >> Â Â Â Being able to experiment fast is important but for that the system should be clean, robust and flexible. >> Â Â Â Having a platform for experimentation requires that the platform is not experimental. >> >> About innovation I mean in no order: >> Â Â Â Support for multitouch screen, bootstrappable Smalltalk, immutability bit and its impact, ephemerons, >> Â Â Â new module system?, first class instance variables, using traits for real (like in ruby where any class can be a model >> Â Â Â without inheriting from model), VAT-like system?, event system like in AmbiantTalk?, >> Â Â Â I put ? because some of these should be implemented assessed tested... and understood deeply. >> >> About clean >> Â Â Â Clean network, clean event system, clean object kernel, better compiler (open - we got first class instance >> Â Â Â variable with no runtime penalties in one afternoon). Clean class builder... >> >> Now enough about Pharo. http://www.pharo-project.org/ >> >> About Etoys >> ======== >> Â Â Â I love Etoys (we translated the book and did more presentations of etoys than most squeakers) but I do not like its implementation. >> Â Â Â Why? Because it is bad. Any body that looks at it knows it. When I removed Etoys part from Pharo Â I'm sad but there is no other choices. Now it >> Â Â Â does not mean that I'm against Etoys and Etoys has the Etoys 40 image (note that we collected in 3.9 most of the etoys fixes with little support Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â from Etoyers which forked way before, we did the same with the fixes of diego of Smalltalk). But again you can judge otherwise. >> >> >> About the ranting or the little war between Squeak and Pharo >> ====================================== >> Â Â Â Frankly I'm tired about us ranting against Squeak/andreas/... and the inverse. For example Traits are cool, Javascript and PHP >> Â Â Â will probably have them as Perl-6, Scala, Fortress. Now Squeak can remove them. I have no problem with that. Seriously this is your decision. >> Â Â Â People in squeak-dev can freely say negative points about me if this helps. I decided that I will not rant nor get negative feelings about that. I >> Â Â Â found the red pill :) >> >> Â Â Â *I* decided that I want to head to the future. So we will not rant nor make any bad statement about the past anymore. Not even report history or >> Â Â Â on old facts: if you were there you should remember, else there is the archive :). This is my last mail on the past. >> Â Â Â Frankly I have the best job I can dream about. I'm lucky just check my h-index for the fun, I have more than most researchers I know. In addition, Â Â Â I loved working and learning from people like lukas, adrian, nicolas, levente, marcus, ..... The next 10 years should be the best of my life and I >> Â Â Â will take advantage of that. Â I want to have **10/15** years of pure fun and I will do it. I want and will create positive energy. Look at ESUG >> Â Â Â we are doing a great job. >> >> About cross dialect energy >> ================= >> Â Â Â Now the key point of this mail. I **deeply** appreciate the attitude of people like nicolas, levente, and igor that do not bash us and help Pharo >> Â Â Â but also Squeak. I sent this message mainly because of their attitude. I'm sad to see all this (their) energy duplicated. We cleaned and improved a >> Â Â Â lot Pharo over the last two years (more than you may think) and we will continue. Squeak could have benefitted from it. Nicolas luckily for you >> Â Â Â pushed a lot of our fixes in Squeak already. I'm getting the fixes of Squeak that are interesting for Pharo. Now depending on the Squeak vision >> Â Â Â we could share some common things. May be we can build a better future together but not at all price. You see our goals is to get a clean, lean, Â Â Â Â flexible and robust system. If you want to share something with us let us know. You know now the vision of Pharo. >> Â Â Â Squeak may want to compete with us too. This is ok too. >> >> If you want to help us building our vision you are welcome. Our logo is a lighthouse and it means that it will stand and last long because it has to guide boats. So we will continue Pharo against Â tempests and giant waves :) >> >> Â Â Â https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/26678/pharoVideo.zip >> Â Â Â http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2LeNBY_5gk >> Â Â Â The video is really cool (dan this is the one you wanted on waves). >> >> Stef > > Thank you, Stef. That's a great peace-offering, and I happily accept. > > I, too, hope that Squeak and Pharo will share as much as possible, even if our visions are not the same, and the paths we choose to get there are different. Squeak takes the slower route, trying to keep strange things like Etoys working while refactoring them, trying to be inclusive of every project from Seaside to Croquet, supporting Traits but making them unloadable, etc. > > It's great to see how fast Pharo is moving forward, although I've only been watching from afar. I just subscribed to your list so my message gets through. No time to get involved, my personal focus is still on Etoys, and Squeak, as time permits. But I'll try to follow a bit more closely :) > > Merci beaucoup! > > - Bert - > > (Squeak Oversight Board member, speaking for myself, but I'm sure this is a relief for everyone in the community) > > > -- ================================================= GermÃ¡n S. Arduino <gsa @ arsol.net> Twitter: garduino Arduino Software & Web Hosting http://www.arduinosoftware.com PasswordsPro http://www.passwordspro.com =================================================

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[Pharo-project] Useless Netwoking classes?
by Bouraqadi Noury March 26, 2010

March 26, 2010

Hi, I'm looking at the Network-Kernel category, and found two classes that seem unused: -ConnectionQueue -InternetConfiguration I checked in the latest PharoCore, and Pharo-Dev. Also, I checked in Pier 1.2. No reference/subclass. If you agree to remove them, how should I provide/package the following code snipet that does the change ? ConnectionQueue removeFromSystem. InternetConfiguration removeFromSystem. Noury http://car.ensm-douai.fr/noury/ -------------- -5th National Conference on Control Architecture of Robots (CAR). Douai, France, 18-19 may 2010 http://car.ensm-douai.fr/CAR2010/ -ESUG 18th International Smalltalk Conference. Barcelona, Spain, 11-17 september 2010 http://www.esug.org/Conferences/2010

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[Pharo-project] Problem with TransformationMorph
by Lukas Renggli March 26, 2010

March 26, 2010

I noticed a problem with transformation morphs and created a bug report: Â http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=2207 The problem seems to be that the transformation morph creates a black rectangle on the rotated clipping bounds. I does not only happen with TextMorphs but also with (some) other morphs. I tried to convert the TextMorph to a SketchMorph and the same happens there. I have no idea how to fix that problem. I need a solution because eCompletion rotates some text by 90, which is currently not possible. | stringMorph transformationMorph | stringMorph := 'vertical text' asMorph. transformationMorph := TransformationMorph new asFlexOf: stringMorph. transformationMorph angle: Float pi / 2. transformationMorph position: 5@5. transformationMorph openInWorld. Lukas -- Lukas Renggli http://www.lukas-renggli.ch

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March 26, 2010

Hi all Gemstone nicely offered to host the equivalent of http://book.seaside.st for Pharo. A not well-skinned version is available at http://book.pharo-project.org The idea is that we do not want to have 100% open wiki but we want to have a web site that the community can use to build a living documentation that can be turned into a book. For that we will need some editors ie people willing to write and take into accounts comments made other on certain topics. I can be one of these but we need more :) You do not have to enroll for everything I dream to have a presentation on how to compile the vm :) for example on mac on linux on Windows Now since I'm bad with pier (Pier is out of my reach) I need people to take over. I succeeded to break the current installation but I would say that this is not my fault :) Stef

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[Pharo-project] FFI: get function address?
by Schwab,Wilhelm K March 26, 2010

March 26, 2010

Hello all, Does Squeak/Pharo FFI offer a way to get the address of a function in a library? The target of interest is probably more of an exported global containing a pointer, but GetProcAddress() worked on Windows, and I am assuming a similar trick will be required on Linux. Bill

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