December 2013 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[pharo-project/pharo-core]
by GitHub Dec. 16, 2013

Dec. 16, 2013

Branch: refs/tags/30649 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

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[pharo-project/pharo-core] 0711d3: 30649
by GitHub Dec. 16, 2013

Dec. 16, 2013

Branch: refs/heads/3.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: 0711d3b70687b34bb4fc77ea13e041ce25ad8098 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/0711d3b70687b34bb4fc77ea… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2013-12-16 (Mon, 16 Dec 2013) Changed paths: A AST-Core.package/RBProgramNode.class/class/accessing/formatterClass_.st M FileSystem-Disk.package/DiskStore.class/instance/private/rootNode.st M Nautilus.package/AbstractNautilusUI.class/instance/group/addNewGroup.st A ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script302.st A ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update30649.st M ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st M StartupPreferences.package/extension/SettingBrowser/instance/exportAllSettings_by_withBasename_.st Log Message: ----------- 30649 11437 export settings in 3.0 cause a startup error when loading settings https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/11437 12431 DNU on Export Settings in Settings https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12431 12416 File Permissions on Root not working https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12416 12306 adding a group does not display it https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12306 http://files.pharo.org/image/30/30649.zip

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Re: [Pharo-dev] Tell me about your workflow
by GOUBIER Thierry Dec. 16, 2013

Dec. 16, 2013

Bad news. Roassal package directory has 355 entries (343 classes + a few extensions) and I don't see much of a slow down (on 3.0). It's not instantaneous, but with a bit of feedback, it doesn't seems long. I'll do some profiling. Thierry ________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de GOUBIER Thierry Date d'envoi : jeudi 12 dÃ©cembre 2013 17:07 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : [PROVENANCE INTERNET] Re: [Pharo-dev] Tell me about your workflow Thanks for the pointers. I'll look at Seaside/Moose/Mondrian and Roassal, because I need code I can load and save in an image without destroying the very image I use to test (which would happen if I load Pharo10 stuff in a 3.0 image ;) ). Thierry ________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org] de la part de Yuriy Tymchuk [yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com] Date d'envoi : jeudi 12 dÃ©cembre 2013 16:24 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Tell me about your workflow So if you want something big and with a lot of commits you can use Pharo* in general. Pharo10 has the most versions and Pharo30Inbox is the largest one. If you want some other projects then you heve to take a look at Seaside30, Mondrian, Moose, Glamour or Roassal. Uko On 12 Dec 2013, at 16:20, Yuriy Tymchuk <yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com<mailto:yuriy.tymchuk@me.com>> wrote: Pharo10 on SmalltalkHub is humongous. You can definitely do a stress test with it :) Uko On 12 Dec 2013, at 15:43, GOUBIER Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr<mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: I would need a large project, composed of one or more packages, with more than 150~200 classes, which triggers the slow read and writing times Sebastian experience. And, probably, to be complete, a long and complex commit history in git (> 100 commits). I'll keep in mind the idea of creating one randomly ;) Thierry ________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org<mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org>] de la part de Yuriy Tymchuk [yuriy.tymchuk(a)me.com<mailto:yuriy.tymchuk@me.com>] Date d'envoi : jeudi 12 dÃ©cembre 2013 15:37 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Tell me about your workflow Are you interested in a package or a project? I can provide you information based on size, etcâ¦ Uko On 12 Dec 2013, at 15:30, GOUBIER Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr<mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: I gave up running gitfiletree on 1.4 :( It's possible to use gitfiletree from a 2.0 or a 3.0 image to browse your git repository, but testing the writing will be an issue. My best chance would be to find a large enough package I can use on 2.0 or 3.0 to test and profile. Does anybody has a large enough package which could fit? Anything that doesn't require a NDA to read it, of course. Is Roassal large enough? Thierry ________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org<mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org>] de la part de Sebastian Sastre [sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com<mailto:sebastian@flowingconcept.com>] Date d'envoi : jeudi 12 dÃ©cembre 2013 12:12 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Tell me about your workflow gee the big code package is airflowing which I have, quite conservatively, running on #14438 images I load filetree like this: Gofer new url: 'http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/FileTree'; package: 'ConfigurationOfFileTree'; load. ((Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfFileTree) project version: #'stable') load. and it never complained let me know On Dec 12, 2013, at 3:53 AM, GOUBIER Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr<mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: If you would be ready to profile a package save on your repository, it would be great. In the mean time, I'll make available a special gitfiletree package to test. Which version of Pharo you are using? 2.0 or 3.0? Regards, Thierry ________________________________ De : Pharo-dev [pharo-dev-bounces(a)lists.pharo.org<mailto:pharo-dev-bounces@lists.pharo.org>] de la part de Sebastian Sastre [sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com<mailto:sebastian@flowingconcept.com>] Date d'envoi : mercredi 11 dÃ©cembre 2013 17:09 Ã : Pharo Development List Objet : Re: [Pharo-dev] Tell me about your workflow ok, if saving is dumping all, then 3 is confirmed? After the first commit, I'd say so. about 2, I don't know. I'm available to make tests and measure results have a nice trip, keep us tuned about any progress On Dec 11, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr<mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: Yes, you're right in the general case. But a solution to that general problem will take time to be implemented (time I lack at the moment, sadly) and if the main gain is a few % because it's writing the version file and the metadata for methods which are the "slow" factors, then we'll have worked hard for nothing. If you want to help, I'd really like to see either 2- or 3- confirmed. I can produce a special gitfiletree to remove writing the metadata, that you can try on a large project temporary copy; if the slow writing (and reading) is confirmed, then this is 3- (But I'm leaving on a trip tomorrow early, so I have no idea of when I'll have the time to do that :( ). Thierry Le 11/12/2013 16:44, Sebastian Sastre a Ã©crit : Without entering in details, a cause for slow package write is dumping all every time. For that strategy, we already have the image save which is magically fast. So, if we make something to scan the code and write only when it's different from what's on disk, then we would be preventing tons of redundant writes sebastian <https://about.me/sebastianconcept> o/ On Dec 11, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr<mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: Le 11/12/2013 16:27, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : ah, and IMHO the problem is not about reading... is about writing (if it has to write the metadata each time...). But, personnaly, I don't know if this is the reason for the lack of performance... I have three hypothesis for Sebastian problem: 1 - Slow read time for version metadata - Confirmed because of the 16 seconds wait time for reading the package metadata in the repository browser. 2 - Slow metadata write 3 - Slow package write I have an implemented solution for 1-, a very easy to implement for 2-, and none yet for 3- So I'd really like to check if 3- is confirmed ;) Thierry Esteban On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com<mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> wrote: Thierry, I know there is a working version... let me search... (5 mins later) here: https://github.com/rjsargent/CypressReferenceImplementation Dale says Richard made a metadata-less version. We should take a look at that. Esteban On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr<mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr><mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>> wrote: Esteban, Sebastian, In the filetree code, you will find a format without metadata, but it's not in use anymore. If you use gitfiletree, it will write the metadata for compatibility reasons with filetree, but it will never read it back. I'm pushing code to make filetree robust to absence of metadata, but I haven't worked on it for a while. gitfiletree has solved the problem of a slow metadata read. It does not solve any performance problem associated with writing, yet. Thierry Le 11/12/2013 16:12, Esteban Lorenzano a Ã©crit : I know there is a version of filetree without metadata (more compelling for projects that will never use other formats). Dale told me that there was a preview somewhere, but I didn't tested yet (lack of time) and now I cannot find the mail... Dale, can you re-send the link? cheers, Esteban On Wed, Dec 11, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com<mailto:sebastian@flowingconcept.com> <mailto:sebastian@flowingconcept.com> <mailto:sebastian@flowingconcept.com> <mailto:sebastian@__flowingconcept.com <mailto:sebastian@flowingconcept.com>>> wrote: I should breath before I type, but you probably already got that I meant /redundant writes/ (not reads)... Anyway.. I was talking with Esteban and he mentions some kind of compatibility metadata. If I'm going to give a leap of faith to filetree repos to save code why should I care about mcz compatibility? Paying a toll for no reason is evil. Maybe we could make that optional so those who don't extract value from that feature can opt-out? sebastian <https://about.me/__sebastianconcept <https://about.me/sebastianconcept>> o/ On Dec 11, 2013, at 12:44 PM, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com<mailto:sebastian@flowingconcept.com> <mailto:sebastian@flowingconcept.com> <mailto:sebastian@flowingconcept.com> <mailto:sebastian@__flowingconcept.com <mailto:sebastian@flowingconcept.com>>> wrote: Hi Thierry On Dec 11, 2013, at 12:43 PM, Goubier Thierry <thierry.goubier(a)cea.fr<mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr> <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr <mailto:thierry.goubier@cea.fr>__>> wrote: I have packages (in the order of hundreds of classes) and save delays and package click delays are starting to demand patience in a way that doesn't feel like the right path Which operations ? I didn't remember noticing much with 179 classes on a laptop without a SSD. choose one. Just for clicking the package that will should you UUID, version and author I need to wait ~16 seconds. Sounds like a lot of overhead for reading a small .json file. But the write is the most worrisome All that is with a SSD disk, otherwise save delays would be /way/ beyond unacceptable I'd like to know more, and understand the reason, for sure. As far as I know, filetree will rewrite the whole package to disk everytime... and maybe optimising that could be the solution. Well, that explains a lot. Writing all every time is the lazy thing that's okay for a prototype and temporary code in a proof of concept but that massive redundant reads certainly doesn't sounds like pro software. Specially for SSD's which has a limited quantity of writes Thierry sebastian <https://about.me/__sebastianconcept <https://about.me/sebastianconcept>> o/ -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 <tel:%2B33%20%280%29%201%2069%2008%2032%2092> <tel:%2B33%20%280%29%201%2069%__2008%2032%2092> / 83 95 -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 <tel:%2B33%20%280%29%201%2069%2008%2032%2092> / 83 95 -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95 -- Thierry Goubier CEA list Laboratoire des Fondations des SystÃ¨mes Temps RÃ©el EmbarquÃ©s 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex France Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

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SO: meta key swapping
by Max Leske Dec. 16, 2013

Dec. 16, 2013

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20611685/is-there-a-way-to-swap-control-…

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Objective Smalltalk
by askoh Dec. 16, 2013

Dec. 16, 2013

"Objective-Smalltalk is a re-imagining of Objective-C for the 21st century. Like Objective-C, it blends features from Smalltalk and C, but instead of adding some Smalltalk features to C, it adds ideas from Objective-C to Smalltalk. It is intended as a full-stack language capable of complementing or replacing Objective-C for iOS and Mac OS X programming as well as replacing most scripting language use in those environments. It is not Smalltalk-80 compatible." http://objective.st/ Has anyone seen this? When will it be ready to use? Thanks, Aik-Siong Koh -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Objective-Smalltalk-tp4730424.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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[pharo-project/pharo-core]
by GitHub Dec. 16, 2013

Dec. 16, 2013

Branch: refs/tags/30648 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

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[pharo-project/pharo-core] c81360: 30648
by GitHub Dec. 16, 2013

Dec. 16, 2013

Branch: refs/heads/3.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: c81360f70ac01ef4835a0484d451cf453c05a329 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/c81360f70ac01ef4835a0484… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2013-12-16 (Mon, 16 Dec 2013) Changed paths: M KernelTests.package/JobTest.class/instance/tests/testCurrent.st M Monticello.package/MCVersionNotification.class/instance/error handling/notify_.st R MonticelloFileTree-Core.package/FileTreeUrl.class/README.md R MonticelloFileTree-Core.package/FileTreeUrl.class/class/constants/schemeName.st R MonticelloFileTree-Core.package/FileTreeUrl.class/definition.st R MonticelloFileTree-Core.package/FileTreeUrl.class/instance/as yet unclassified/mcRepositoryAsUser_withPassword_.st R Network-Mail.package/MailComposition.class/class/instance creation/initialize.st R Network-Mail.package/MailComposition.class/class/instance creation/unload.st A Network-Mail.package/MailComposition.class/class/smtp server/isSmtpServerSet.st A Network-Mail.package/MailComposition.class/class/smtp server/setSmtpServer.st A Network-Mail.package/MailComposition.class/class/smtp server/setSmtpServer_.st A Network-Mail.package/MailComposition.class/class/smtp server/smtpServer.st M Network-Mail.package/MailComposition.class/definition.st M Network-Mail.package/MailComposition.class/instance/access/smtpServer.st A ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script301.st A ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update30648.st M ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st Log Message: ----------- 30648 12435 skip JobTest>#testCurrent to check https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12435 12403 FileTreeUrl should be deprecated https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12403 12433 clean up references to deprecated MailSender https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12433 http://files.pharo.org/image/30/30648.zip

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zeroMQ
by Norbert Hartl Dec. 16, 2013

Dec. 16, 2013

Is anyone using zeroMQ with pharoor knows what is the status of zeroMQ support? thanks, Norbert

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[pharo-project/pharo-core]
by GitHub Dec. 16, 2013

Dec. 16, 2013

Branch: refs/tags/30647 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

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[pharo-project/pharo-core] f4873d: 30647
by GitHub Dec. 16, 2013

Dec. 16, 2013

Branch: refs/heads/3.0 Home: https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core Commit: f4873d006a2f1f63125a811e4e56d57e50c9e9c6 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/f4873d006a2f1f63125a811e… Author: Jenkins Build Server <board(a)pharo-project.org> Date: 2013-12-16 (Mon, 16 Dec 2013) Changed paths: A OpalCompiler-Core.package/CCompilationContext.class/class/accessing/warningAllowed.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/CCompilationContext.class/class/accessing/warningAllowed_.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/CCompilationContext.class/definition.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/CCompilationContext.class/instance/accessing/warningAllowed.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/CompilationContext.class/class/accessing/warningAllowed.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/CompilationContext.class/class/accessing/warningAllowed_.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/CompilationContext.class/definition.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/CompilationContext.class/instance/accessing/warningAllowed.st A OpalCompiler-Core.package/OCASTTranslator.class/class/initialize/initialize.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/OCASTTranslator.class/definition.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/OCASTTranslator.class/instance/visitor-double dispatching/visitMessageNode_.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/OCSemanticWarning.class/instance/accessing/errorNotification.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/OpalCompiler.class/class/options/defaultOptions.st M OpalCompiler-Core.package/OpalCompiler.class/instance/public access/compile.st A ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - scripts/script300.st A ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - updates/update30647.st M ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st M Settings-Compiler.package/CompilerSystemSettings.class/class/settings/compilerSettingsOn_.st Log Message: ----------- 30647 12366 Merge Opal Repo with image https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12366 12166 Add Settings to turn off compiler warnings https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/12166 http://files.pharo.org/image/30/30647.zip

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