April 2011 - Pharo-dev - lists.pharo.org

[Pharo-project] [update 1.2] #12351
by Marcus Denker April 27, 2011

April 27, 2011

12351 ----- Issue 4078: New TextEditor mouse selection broken -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

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[Pharo-project] Backward compatibility [WAS] Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] PharoDev-1.3-13173
by Mariano Martinez Peck April 27, 2011

April 27, 2011

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:25 AM, Ted F.A. van Gaalen <tedvga(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Hi Marcus > As I wrote, I am thinking from the perspective > of an application developer, a typical pharo-user ? > imagine that I/we have hundreds of > apps written, will they run unchanged > say 5 years from now? > Probably not. We would like to improve the system and clean it. Unfortunately, sometimes there is no other way than loosing backward compatibility. What do you prefer? Pharo choose a better system. If you/companies do not even collaborate with updating your code (don't say even fixing bugs or submitting code) ...then don't expect anything from Pharo. Pharo is open-source, free and it is build in the free time. And I think Pharo is not the only one....out there most of the languages change a lot between versions, Python, blah. Cheers Mariano > > Regards > Ted > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> > wrote: > > > > On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ted F.A. van Gaalen wrote: > > > >> Good morning Mariano > >> > >> This is something I wrote to Adrian Lienhard, > >> when an image did not run, straight out of the box > >> so to speak, because of VM differences > >> Some thoughts about reliability, and, very important > >> IMHO, upward compatibility. > >> > >> Thanks & Regards > >> Ted > >> > >>>>> > >> ? > >> I did expect that, nota bene working with > >> the Seaside supplied one-click image and > >> the virtual machine supplied with it, > >> provided on the Seaside.st site itself, > >> that everything is (and remains) > >> 100% upward compatible, > >> no matter what VM is or will be used in the future. > > > > This is impossible and, in the end, not a good idea. > > > > We can not be compatible forever, was this would mean > > that we can not improve anything. > > > > e.g. imagine someone would fix the VM to be better. > > (e.g. a modern object format). > > > > Do you really request to then *not* do this change because > > this VM could not run old images? (and new images would > > not run on old VMs?). > > > > Do you want to have a Future or be compatible to the Past? > > > > Marcus > > > > > > -- > > Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de > > INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD. > > > > > > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

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Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [ANN] PharoDev-1.3-13173
by Mariano Martinez Peck April 27, 2011

April 27, 2011

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 10:59 AM, Ted F.A. van Gaalen <tedvga(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Good morning Mariano > > This is something I wrote to Adrian Lienhard, > when an image did not run, straight out of the box > so to speak, because of VM differences > Some thoughts about reliability, and, very important > IMHO, upward compatibility. > > Good morning > Thanks & Regards > Ted > > >>> > ? > I did expect that, nota bene working with > the Seaside supplied one-click image and > the virtual machine supplied with it, > provided on the Seaside.st site itself, > that everything is (and remains) > 100% upward compatible, > no matter what VM is or will be used in the future. > > Unfortunatly that's now of the the goals of Pharo. You have two real/practical ways: 1) don't make progress, stay in the museum (like stef says), and live happy with that. 2) Improve, make progress, and unfortunatly, make some incompatibility to the past. Pharo choose 2). Please, for further discussion, use another thread with a clear subject, not this one. > So, that application builders are assured that > the things they create will run unchanged > for even years to come. In an industrial > environment, this is vital. > Not necessary. Several mainstream languages changes a lot among different versions and people just update their code. > > For example: on IBM mainframes. many > Cobol or PL/1 programs/modules made more than > 30 years ago run unchanged and without recompilation/linking. > This is actually an industrial requirement, without it e.g. > the complete IT environment of banks etc. would collapse. > Even your bank account very probably relies on modules > programmed way back in the seventies.. > ( i won't mention the chaos with years of legacy code here, > but this could also occur years later with Smalltalk apps) > > but back to image compatibility > As a workaround, wouldn't it be a good idea: > - if some shell script on the Seaside hosting site somehow scans/checks > the image and start it with an appropriate VM either COG or another? > or: > provide a standard unchanged clean Seaside image in the file directory > as default, so the only thing one has to do is to load Monticello > package(s) into it? > yes, maybe. Ask seaside people :) Pharo images can be used iwth both VMs > > This is written from the somewhat traditional, industrial > and pragmatic perspective of a typical application developer, > who is not really involved in the more underlying system "details" :o) > > It would be almost a night mare in a large production environment > if e.g. classes are removed where applications rely on. > It would mean and unnecessary rewriting of a lot of code. > > That's the problem. It is not "unnecessary". In fact, it IS necessary if you want to make progress, clean, improve, etc. > Please observe: No pun or harsh negative criticism intended here, > I do really appreciate what is currently > going on with Smalltalk! > > No problem, any feedback is welcome :) we can always discuss. > I''ll copy this to Pharo-users, > currently seen that Mariano is touching a bit similar things. > > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor.girba(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > Thanks, Mariano! > > > > We will move the latest Moose development build to this Pharo version > next week. > > > > Cheers, > > Doru > > > > > > On 27 Apr 2011, at 10:21, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > >> Hi. IMPORTANT: This is not the final 1.3 release, it just one simple > snapshot and one point. We all want a rock-solid Pharo 1.3 release, but that > doesn't happens automagically. We all need to start using and testing the > image before they are release. It is for the better of all of us. The more > we test the more stable will be the release. So...we need your help. What > you can do? > >> > >> 1) test test test test test. Use it. Take this image and use it for your > regular work. > >> 2) report bugs: http://www.pharo-project.org/community/issue-tracking > >> 3) propose fixes: http://code.google.com/p/pharo/wiki/HowToContribute > >> 4) Fix errors/failures tests > >> 5) Load your OWN packages and projects now. Don't wait until Pharo1.3 is > released and then ask "uuhh what happened to XXX? you removed? ohhh but I > use it". > >> 6) Do you maintain Metacello configurations? ok, if you test your > project and works correctly in Pharo 1.3, please update (or create if you > don't yet have it) the #stable, > >> 7) Do you maintain packages included in Pharo? please check we are > using the correct versions > >> 8) I would like to see people testing AidaWeb, Magma, Fuel, Moose, > DBXTalk, Seaside and all its friends, Zinc, FileSystem, etc, etc, etc. > >> > >> Pharo-1.3-13173 should work with Interpreter VM and with Cog. For Cog I > recommend to download the last one from Eliot's page: > http://www.mirandabanda.org/files/Cog/VM/ > >> > >> Two little warnings: > >> - The Transcript is read only....and it will probably be roll backed to > the previous one > >> - if text editing looks weird....it is Lukas's fault ;) > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTMX1f8Lu5w > >> > >> Ok, the image is here: > https://gforge.inria.fr/frs/download.php/28517/Pharo-1.3-13173.zip > >> > >> And it was build by Hudson: > https://pharo-ic.lille.inria.fr/hudson/view/Pharo/job/Pharo%201.3/111/ > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> -- > >> Mariano > >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > >> > > > > -- > > www.tudorgirba.com > > > > "Sometimes the best solution is not the best solution." > > > > > > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

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Re: [Pharo-project] [Pharo-users] [ANN] PharoDev-1.3-13173
by Marcus Denker April 27, 2011

April 27, 2011

On Apr 27, 2011, at 10:59 AM, Ted F.A. van Gaalen wrote: > Good morning Mariano > > This is something I wrote to Adrian Lienhard, > when an image did not run, straight out of the box > so to speak, because of VM differences > Some thoughts about reliability, and, very important > IMHO, upward compatibility. > > Thanks & Regards > Ted > >>>> > ? > I did expect that, nota bene working with > the Seaside supplied one-click image and > the virtual machine supplied with it, > provided on the Seaside.st site itself, > that everything is (and remains) > 100% upward compatible, > no matter what VM is or will be used in the future. This is impossible and, in the end, not a good idea. We can not be compatible forever, was this would mean that we can not improve anything. e.g. imagine someone would fix the VM to be better. (e.g. a modern object format). Do you really request to then *not* do this change because this VM could not run old images? (and new images would not run on old VMs?). Do you want to have a Future or be compatible to the Past? Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

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[Pharo-project] About testing that ensure works
by StÃ©phane Ducasse April 27, 2011

April 27, 2011

Hi guys in RPackage there is a method named withOrganizer:do: defined as follows and I would like to test it to understand really if it does what it says. withOrganizer: aNewOrganizer do: aBlock "Perform an action locally to aNewOrganizer. Does not impact any other organizers." | old shouldRegisterAtTheEnd| [ old := self organizer. shouldRegisterAtTheEnd := false. old hasRegistered ifTrue: [ old unregister. shouldRegisterAtTheEnd := true. ]. self organizer: aNewOrganizer. aBlock cull: aNewOrganizer.] ensure: [ self organizer: old. shouldRegisterAtTheEnd ifTrue: [ self organizer register. ]. aNewOrganizer unregister. ] So I wrote two tests testWithDoIsCorrectlyReinstallingDefault "self debug: #testWithDoIsCorrectlyReinstallingDefault" | current empty | current := RPackageOrganizer default. empty := RPackageOrganizer basicNew initialize. RPackage withOrganizer: empty do: [ self assert: (SystemAnnouncer announcer hasSubscriber: empty). self deny: (SystemAnnouncer announcer hasSubscriber: current)]. self assert: (SystemAnnouncer announcer hasSubscriber: current). self deny: (SystemAnnouncer announcer hasSubscriber: empty) and testWithDoIsCorrectlyReinstallingDefaultEvenIfHalt "self debug: #testWithDoIsCorrectlyReinstallingDefaultEvenIfHalt" | current empty | current := RPackageOrganizer default. empty := RPackageOrganizer basicNew initialize. RPackage withOrganizer: empty do: [ self error. self assert: (SystemAnnouncer announcer hasSubscriber: empty). self deny: (SystemAnnouncer announcer hasSubscriber: current)]. self assert: (SystemAnnouncer announcer hasSubscriber: current). self deny: (SystemAnnouncer announcer hasSubscriber: empty) Now I would like to make sure that I raise an error or whaever to make sure that the ensure: block argument is executed. Does anybody have an idea how I can do that. because self error does not work. Stef

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[Pharo-project] pseudo class
by Sean Allen April 27, 2011

April 27, 2011

i've been poking around trying to figure out what pseudo class does in pharo and haven't really been successul. can someone give me some basic background on the role it serves?

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Re: [Pharo-project] Fix proposed to make alt+t open a transcript in PharoCore 1.3
by Marcus Denker April 27, 2011

April 27, 2011

On Apr 25, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Damien Cassou wrote: > http://code.google.com/p/pharo/issues/detail?id=4093 > We should role back to the old transcript... all of the many problems with transcript will then be fixed. Marcus -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

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Re: [Pharo-project] [Vm-dev] Re: A possible Cog bug (was: Re: [squeak-dev] Direct implementation of shift/reset in Smalltalk)
by Eliot Miranda April 27, 2011

April 27, 2011

Hi Levente, 2011/4/26 Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)elte.hu> > > Hi Eliot, > > On Tue, 26 Apr 2011, Eliot Miranda wrote: > > Hi Levente, >> try out the latest VMs. They don't fix the bugs, but do change the >> symptoms. e.g. in >> >> c := [ 3 + PartialContinuationNotification signal ] >> on: PartialContinuationNotification >> do: [ :not | not continuation ]. >> c value: 4. "==> 7" >> >> there is now an MNU of #+ since 3 has been replaced by a MethodContext. >> >> So if I could ask you could dig in again, that would help. >> > > the symptoms are much better now. The cause of the MNU seems to be that the > copied contexts have some "junk" at their indexable slots. Implementing > ContextPart >> #copyTo: as below solves (hides) the problem. > > ContextPart >> copyTo: aContext > "Copy self and my sender chain down to, but not including, aContext. > End of copied chain will have nil sender." > > | copy | > self == aContext ifTrue: [ ^nil ]. > copy := self copy. > "Cog doesn't copy the temps properly, so copy them here." > 1 to: self size do: [ :i | copy at: i put: (self at: i) ]. > sender ifNotNil: [ copy privSender: (sender copyTo: aContext) ]. > ^copy > > To reproduce the "junk" copying bug, evaluate the following: > > | context | > context := thisContext copy. > { context. context copy } explore > > The first context's first slot will be nil, while the second context's > first slot will point to the sender context. Actually the indexable slots > are filled with the values of the fixed slots, that's why the sender context > is at the first indexable slot of the second context. Here's an example with > more indexable slots: > > | context a b c d e | > context := thisContext copy. > a := b := c := d := e := context. > { context. context copy } explore. > { a. b. c. d. e } "This is here to avoid compiler complaints." > Hmm... the above behavior is intentional and correct in that to speed up context-to-stack mapping Cog makes no guarantee to preserve the values of temporary values after a context has returned. You'll notice that the entire closure scheme is centered around this, in that temporaries that must outlive their dynamic extent for the correct working of blocks are either copied into blocks (as copied values) or stored into remote temp vectors, hence breaking any dependence on the temporaries in enclosing contexts. If you can live with this restriction then instead of stating "Cog doesn't copy the temps properly, so copy them here." in your reimplementation of copyTo: it would be more accurate to state "Cog doesn't preserve non-closed-over temps beyond their dynamic extent, so copy them here." or some such. Note that Cog /does/ preserve arguments. However, I've clearly still got some bug because look at the following. In the copy the arguments ba1 & ba2 (1 & 2) are in the wrong place on the stack. Sigh... [:ba1 :ba2| | context a b c d e | context := thisContext copy. a := b := c := d := e := context. { context. context copy } explore. { a. b. c. d. e } "This is here to avoid compiler complaints."] value: 1 value: 2 > > > Levente > > >> thanks! >> >> best, >> Eliot > > >

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[Pharo-project] Monticello doesn't always call all class side #initalize ?? [WAS] Re: a problem with Zinc on Pharo 1.1.1
by Mariano Martinez Peck April 26, 2011

April 26, 2011

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 9:31 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)beta9.be>wrote: > > On 26 Apr 2011, at 20:39, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > > > Second, I've seen that problem too. I am sure that when loading a new > version of a certain package, some class side #initialize are not called. > When? which ones? I have no idea. > > > > I couldn't reproduce it. Can you? > > I can't figure it out either, but I haven't really looked deeply into it. > > As far as I can tell it just doesn't work: I guess #initialize is only > called when the class is new or maybe when its definition is changed, maybe > when the #initialize method changes, but certainly not all the time when you > load new(er) versions of methods of that class. Maybe that is too much to > expect, I don't know, it would be handy. > > So when your #initialize calls say #initializeConstants and only that > method is changed, you have a problem. > > Maybe somebody else knows ? > > Sven > > > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

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[Pharo-project] [update 1.3] #13173
by Marcus Denker April 26, 2011

April 26, 2011

13173 ----- Issue 4094: Object>>chooseUniqueClassName can be removed Issue 2177: Generalize stream protocol #readInto:startingAt:count: -- Marcus Denker -- http://www.marcusdenker.de INRIA Lille -- Nord Europe. Team RMoD.

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