April 2018 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

treemap of memory use for an object?
by PAUL DEBRUICKER April 23, 2018

April 23, 2018

Hi, With Roassal is it possible to make a treemap (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treemapping) of the memory use of an object and its instVars? I have a leak and am not sure where and its not one or two objects AFAIK.... Thanks Paul

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What next for Pharo vm?
by henry April 23, 2018

April 23, 2018

I was thinking the vm is able to run more than one bytecode set. Why couldnât our vm support both Pharo and Java bytecodes? Sent from ProtonMail Mobile

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Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?
by Joe Shirk April 23, 2018

April 23, 2018

I've been a lurk-fan for a long time but this brings up something that distressed me. Richard Eng, Smalltalk Renaissance hero loves to say Smalltalk's grammar/syntax fits on a postcard. But the vocabulary doesn't. There is nothing English-like about the always expanding bewildering library namespaces. GT what? Oh a newbie might eventually figure out it means Glamorous Toolkit. These are meaningless brands. In this drive to come up with creative names for "just objects" that explain nothing at all, Smalltalk is becoming like Java or PHP hell. Just look at those examples through the eyes of a novice. The purity is nowhere to be found. :( On Apr 13, 2018 1:56 AM, "Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users" < pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Cc: Bcc: Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 05:53:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Where do we go now ? Hello guys, Just a quick word to get some things straight because, quite frankly, I really don't know where we're heading. When Pharo started, the goal was to depart from Squeak and do a *major clean up* of all the code, especially Morphic. The promise of a new, clean & lean Smalltalk attracted a lot of people. And then... I'm looking at the Pharo 7.0 image right now and I just don't get where we're heading. Every Pharo release gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger. I don't mind the environment getting bigger if it adds functionalities or new tools but that's not quite the case here. LOTS of stuff is just duplicated. Do we really need 2 code completion classes (NECController, NOCController) ? Do we really need 2 system browsers (Nautilus, Calypso)? Do we really need 2 compilers (OpalCompiler, Compiler) ? Do we really need 8 delay schedulers (DelayMicrosecondScheduler, DelayMillisecondScheduler, DelayNullScheduler, DelayExperimentalSpinScheduler, DelaySpinScheduler, DelayTicklessScheduler, DelayExperimentalCourageousScheduler, DelayExperimentalSemaphoreScheduler) ? Do we really need 2 inspectors (GTInspector, EyeInspector) ? Do we really need 2 workspaces (GTPlayground, Workspace) ? Et cetera. Et cetera. Et cetera. I could go on, and on, and on... Pharo 5.1 had 5885 classes. Pharo 6.1 had 6481 classes. Pharo 7.0 alpha has 7612 classes. Can you see a trend? Pharo 5.1 had 416 preference settings. Pharo 6.1 had 494 preference settings. Pharo 7.0 alpha has 662 preference settings. Can you see a trend? Pharo 5.1 had a 27.44 MB image. Pharo 6.1 had a 35.18 MB image. Pharo 7.0 alpha has a 47.97 MB image. Can you see a trend? Add to that the fact that Pharo is a nightmare when you want to port code. Just with the 7.0 release, 61 classes will be deprecated (and lots more to come if you search for the string "deprecated" into the code, most of the time hidden in the comments of the soon-to-be-deprecated-in-Pharo-8-I-guess classes). You have code that deals with sockets, should you use the old Socket classes or convert everything to Zodiac? And why do we keep both "frameworks" in the image ? Pharo hasn't been backward compatible with "old socket classes" a looooooong time ago anyway! You have code that deals with dependencies, should you use the old dependents mechanism or convert everything to announcements? UI speaking, what framework should anyone use ? Athens? Something else? You have code that deals with streams, should you use the old stream classes or convert everything to Zinc ? And why do we keep both "frameworks" in the image ? Pharo hasn't been backward compatible with the old stream classes a looooooong time ago anyway! So what's the plan? For instance, should I keep using the Nautilus Browser or I should switch to the Calypso browser and get used to it because Nautilus will be deprecated? Or should I just don't care because a third system browser will be added in Pharo 8 just because "it's cool, let's add this one too!" ? Couldn't we just decide on what's "official" and what's a goodie or an external optional tool/package/framework the same way all other Smalltalks do? If you say Calypso is the official & supported browser, fine! Then just get Nautilus out of the image, create a nice loadable package for it and if someone prefers Nautilus, they'll just have to load it into the image, the same way VW has a gazillion optional tools/packages/frameworks you can load from a parcel! Whenever I get asked a simple question by a newbie like "Oh, which system browser should I use?", quite frankly, I don't know what to answer. Did we include Calypso to deprecate Nautilus later? Is Calypso just a proof of concept? Is it just an optional tool? What about all those delay schedulers? "I loaded this code from SqueakSource and it just doesn't work". Should I help the guy to fix it or just tell him to convert all the code to the corresponding framework in Pharo? Perhaps a little bit of clarity and details about what's coming and what's the plan would be beneficial to a lot of us. ----------------- BenoÃ®t St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean Instagram: Chef_Benito IRC: lamneth Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)

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Sorry - Please Stay!!!
by sean＠clipperadams.com April 22, 2018

April 22, 2018

> Well, I guess I don't belong here anymoreâ¦ Please don't let one personality define our community. I'm sure there are a lot of people, like me, who appreciate your perspective and efforts. Steph has said the same thing to me multiple times about talking vs. action and I've worked on hundreds of issues. It can be frustrating, but I certainly believe it's worth it because while not perfect, Pharo is the closest to my Dynabook dream with enough of a community around it to have good up-to-date libraries around it, etc. GT, Roassal, Grafoscopio, and the new AI stuff are getting really exciting. Let's focus on inventing the future! _____________________________________ Sent from http://forum.world.st

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question re. meaning of 'self' in a method used for testing
by Gregg Williams April 22, 2018

April 22, 2018

HiâIâm a beginner in Pharo and am working my way through Pharo by Example 5.0 (PbE) and Learning OOP and TDD with Pharo (LOTWP). Iâm currently going through 7.4 Designing a test, in LOTWP, which covers testing whether a string has no repeated characters, adding the method String >> isIsogramSet. GramCheckerTest, a class for testing, has the following methods: â isograms "list of isograms; used for testing" ^ #('pharo' 'pathfinder' 'xavier' 'lumberjacksâ) testAllIsogramSet "using each word in list named 'isograms'" self isograms do: [ :word | self assert: word isIsogramSet ] â Here are my questions: 1) These two methods are defined on the instance side (the Class button is *not* selected). If so, what is the receiver when they are used? 2) In testAllIsogramSet, why do you need âselfâ? After all âisogramsâ is a data structure, and its message is âdo:â 3) As an add-on to 2), what does âselfâ refer to? The class GramCheckerTest? If so, wouldnât that make testAllIsogramSet a class method? But testAllIsogramSet doesnât appear in the class browser when I click the Class button when the Class pane shows GramCheckerTest. Thanks for any help you might give/point me to regarding this.

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#(foo bar baz) min
by Herbert VojÄÃk April 22, 2018

April 22, 2018

Hi all! Somehow intuitively I presume the subject line to return #bar, but it fails with ByteString not knowing min:, in Pharo 6.1. Is it a bug, bug fixed in Pharo 7, or a feature? Herby

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min:max:
by Hilaire April 22, 2018

April 22, 2018

Hi, Out of curiosity. I always found the #min:max: confusing and lost in its expressiveness. One should write: Â Â Â 10 min: 48 max: 12 to expect 12. but logically one (at least me) may want to express it as: Â Â Â 10 min: 12 max: 48 Then when reading its source code, it is even more confusing: min: aMin max: aMax Â Â Â ^ (self min: aMin) max: aMax Are not the argument names inversed in their meaning, if any? Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

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Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?
by Stephane Ducasse April 22, 2018

April 22, 2018

We know where we go (we have a roadmap) and this is always the same and we are getting there. Tell me one smalltalk that is bootstrapped. And only bad OOP programmers count number of classes!!!! Now I will not reply to provocation. So I just trashed this thread because it goes nowhere. Sorry constructivism criticisms from people that already commited and helped is something positive. But in this thread I only read in inverse and I will let you with it and keep my good energy for it . Stef On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 7:53 AM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 05:53:46 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Where do we go now ? > Hello guys, > > Just a quick word to get some things straight because, quite frankly, I really don't know where we're heading. > > When Pharo started, the goal was to depart from Squeak and do a *major clean up* of all the code, especially Morphic. The promise of a new, clean & lean Smalltalk attracted a lot of people. And then... > > I'm looking at the Pharo 7.0 image right now and I just don't get where we're heading. Every Pharo release gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger. I don't mind the environment getting bigger if it adds functionalities or new tools but that's not quite the case here. LOTS of stuff is just duplicated. > > Do we really need 2 code completion classes (NECController, NOCController) ? Do we really need 2 system browsers (Nautilus, Calypso)? Do we really need 2 compilers (OpalCompiler, Compiler) ? Do we really need 8 delay schedulers (DelayMicrosecondScheduler, DelayMillisecondScheduler, DelayNullScheduler, DelayExperimentalSpinScheduler, DelaySpinScheduler, DelayTicklessScheduler, DelayExperimentalCourageousScheduler, DelayExperimentalSemaphoreScheduler) ? Do we really need 2 inspectors (GTInspector, EyeInspector) ? Do we really need 2 workspaces (GTPlayground, Workspace) ? Et cetera. Et cetera. Et cetera. I could go on, and on, and on... > > Pharo 5.1 had 5885 classes. Pharo 6.1 had 6481 classes. Pharo 7.0 alpha has 7612 classes. Can you see a trend? > > Pharo 5.1 had 416 preference settings. Pharo 6.1 had 494 preference settings. Pharo 7.0 alpha has 662 preference settings. Can you see a trend? > > Pharo 5.1 had a 27.44 MB image. Pharo 6.1 had a 35.18 MB image. Pharo 7.0 alpha has a 47.97 MB image. Can you see a trend? > > Add to that the fact that Pharo is a nightmare when you want to port code. Just with the 7.0 release, 61 classes will be deprecated (and lots more to come if you search for the string "deprecated" into the code, most of the time hidden in the comments of the soon-to-be-deprecated-in-Pharo-8-I-guess classes). > > You have code that deals with sockets, should you use the old Socket classes or convert everything to Zodiac? And why do we keep both "frameworks" in the image ? Pharo hasn't been backward compatible with "old socket classes" a looooooong time ago anyway! > > You have code that deals with dependencies, should you use the old dependents mechanism or convert everything to announcements? > > UI speaking, what framework should anyone use ? Athens? Something else? > > You have code that deals with streams, should you use the old stream classes or convert everything to Zinc ? And why do we keep both "frameworks" in the image ? Pharo hasn't been backward compatible with the old stream classes a looooooong time ago anyway! > > So what's the plan? For instance, should I keep using the Nautilus Browser or I should switch to the Calypso browser and get used to it because Nautilus will be deprecated? Or should I just don't care because a third system browser will be added in Pharo 8 just because "it's cool, let's add this one too!" ? > > Couldn't we just decide on what's "official" and what's a goodie or an external optional tool/package/framework the same way all other Smalltalks do? If you say Calypso is the official & supported browser, fine! Then just get Nautilus out of the image, create a nice loadable package for it and if someone prefers Nautilus, they'll just have to load it into the image, the same way VW has a gazillion optional tools/packages/frameworks you can load from a parcel! > > Whenever I get asked a simple question by a newbie like "Oh, which system browser should I use?", quite frankly, I don't know what to answer. Did we include Calypso to deprecate Nautilus later? Is Calypso just a proof of concept? Is it just an optional tool? What about all those delay schedulers? > > "I loaded this code from SqueakSource and it just doesn't work". Should I help the guy to fix it or just tell him to convert all the code to the corresponding framework in Pharo? > > Perhaps a little bit of clarity and details about what's coming and what's the plan would be beneficial to a lot of us. > > > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > Instagram: Chef_Benito > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) >

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[ANN] Agile Artificial Intelligence: Programming Neural Networks in Pharo
by Alexandre Bergel April 22, 2018

April 22, 2018

Hi! It is now time to share an early version of a new book. https://agileartificialintelligence.github.io <https://agileartificialintelligence.github.io/> Feedback is very welcome. Kind regards, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

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Re: [Pharo-users] [squeak-dev] min:max:
by Ben Coman April 21, 2018

April 21, 2018

On Sat, 21 Apr 2018, Ben Coman wrote: > > On 21 April 2018 at 03:51, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Out of curiosity. >> >> I always found the #min:max: confusing and lost in its >> expressiveness. >> >> One should write: >> >> 10 min: 48 max: 12 >> >> to expect 12. >> >> but logically one (at least me) may want to express it as: >> >> 10 min: 12 max: 48 >> >> Then when reading its source code, it is even more confusing: >> >> min: aMin max: aMax >> ^ (self min: aMin) max: aMax >> >> Are not the argument names inversed in their meaning, if any? >> >> >> I would agree. I see most use by Color like... >> >> Color>>adjustBrightness: brightness >> "Adjust the relative brightness of this color. (lowest value is >> 0.005 so that hue information is not lost)" >> >> ^ self class >> h: self hue >> s: self saturation >> v: (self brightness + brightness min: 1.0 max: 0.005) >> alpha: self alpha >> >> Trying to read that twists my brain. >> >> >> I can understand the intent from the implementation >> min: aMin max: aMax >> ^ (self min: aMin) max: aMax >> >> but that message might more properly be #min:thenMax: >> However something like >> (self brightness + brightness boundedBy: 0.005 and: 1.0) >> (self brightness + brightness boundedMin: 0.005 max: 1.0) >> seems more intention revealing. >> >> >> Altering #min:max semantics would make awful portability, >> but perhaps it should forward to a new method to make it clear the other >> is preferred. >> >> Would the Squeak community be amenable to a similar change? >> I'd be happy to contribute the changes to the Squeak Inbox. >> > On 21 April 2018 at 17:56, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)caesar.elte.hu> wrote: > Squeak has #clampLow:high: for this reason. > > Thanks Levente. Thats a good one. With similar usage clamping signals in electronics, this is worthwhile to adopt. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21758/Replace-min-max-with-clampLow-High cheers -ben

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