- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Sorry - Please Stay!!!
by sean＠clipperadams.com April 22, 2018

April 22, 2018

> Well, I guess I don't belong here anymoreâ¦ Please don't let one personality define our community. I'm sure there are a lot of people, like me, who appreciate your perspective and efforts. Steph has said the same thing to me multiple times about talking vs. action and I've worked on hundreds of issues. It can be frustrating, but I certainly believe it's worth it because while not perfect, Pharo is the closest to my Dynabook dream with enough of a community around it to have good up-to-date libraries around it, etc. GT, Roassal, Grafoscopio, and the new AI stuff are getting really exciting. Let's focus on inventing the future! _____________________________________ Sent from http://forum.world.st

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question re. meaning of 'self' in a method used for testing
by Gregg Williams April 22, 2018

April 22, 2018

HiâIâm a beginner in Pharo and am working my way through Pharo by Example 5.0 (PbE) and Learning OOP and TDD with Pharo (LOTWP). Iâm currently going through 7.4 Designing a test, in LOTWP, which covers testing whether a string has no repeated characters, adding the method String >> isIsogramSet. GramCheckerTest, a class for testing, has the following methods: â isograms "list of isograms; used for testing" ^ #('pharo' 'pathfinder' 'xavier' 'lumberjacksâ) testAllIsogramSet "using each word in list named 'isograms'" self isograms do: [ :word | self assert: word isIsogramSet ] â Here are my questions: 1) These two methods are defined on the instance side (the Class button is *not* selected). If so, what is the receiver when they are used? 2) In testAllIsogramSet, why do you need âselfâ? After all âisogramsâ is a data structure, and its message is âdo:â 3) As an add-on to 2), what does âselfâ refer to? The class GramCheckerTest? If so, wouldnât that make testAllIsogramSet a class method? But testAllIsogramSet doesnât appear in the class browser when I click the Class button when the Class pane shows GramCheckerTest. Thanks for any help you might give/point me to regarding this.

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#(foo bar baz) min
by Herbert VojÄÃk April 22, 2018

April 22, 2018

Hi all! Somehow intuitively I presume the subject line to return #bar, but it fails with ByteString not knowing min:, in Pharo 6.1. Is it a bug, bug fixed in Pharo 7, or a feature? Herby

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min:max:
by Hilaire April 22, 2018

April 22, 2018

Hi, Out of curiosity. I always found the #min:max: confusing and lost in its expressiveness. One should write: Â Â Â 10 min: 48 max: 12 to expect 12. but logically one (at least me) may want to express it as: Â Â Â 10 min: 12 max: 48 Then when reading its source code, it is even more confusing: min: aMin max: aMax Â Â Â ^ (self min: aMin) max: aMax Are not the argument names inversed in their meaning, if any? Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

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Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?
by Stephane Ducasse April 22, 2018

April 22, 2018

We know where we go (we have a roadmap) and this is always the same and we are getting there. Tell me one smalltalk that is bootstrapped. And only bad OOP programmers count number of classes!!!! Now I will not reply to provocation. So I just trashed this thread because it goes nowhere. Sorry constructivism criticisms from people that already commited and helped is something positive. But in this thread I only read in inverse and I will let you with it and keep my good energy for it . Stef On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 7:53 AM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > Cc: > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2018 05:53:46 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Where do we go now ? > Hello guys, > > Just a quick word to get some things straight because, quite frankly, I really don't know where we're heading. > > When Pharo started, the goal was to depart from Squeak and do a *major clean up* of all the code, especially Morphic. The promise of a new, clean & lean Smalltalk attracted a lot of people. And then... > > I'm looking at the Pharo 7.0 image right now and I just don't get where we're heading. Every Pharo release gets bigger, and bigger, and bigger. I don't mind the environment getting bigger if it adds functionalities or new tools but that's not quite the case here. LOTS of stuff is just duplicated. > > Do we really need 2 code completion classes (NECController, NOCController) ? Do we really need 2 system browsers (Nautilus, Calypso)? Do we really need 2 compilers (OpalCompiler, Compiler) ? Do we really need 8 delay schedulers (DelayMicrosecondScheduler, DelayMillisecondScheduler, DelayNullScheduler, DelayExperimentalSpinScheduler, DelaySpinScheduler, DelayTicklessScheduler, DelayExperimentalCourageousScheduler, DelayExperimentalSemaphoreScheduler) ? Do we really need 2 inspectors (GTInspector, EyeInspector) ? Do we really need 2 workspaces (GTPlayground, Workspace) ? Et cetera. Et cetera. Et cetera. I could go on, and on, and on... > > Pharo 5.1 had 5885 classes. Pharo 6.1 had 6481 classes. Pharo 7.0 alpha has 7612 classes. Can you see a trend? > > Pharo 5.1 had 416 preference settings. Pharo 6.1 had 494 preference settings. Pharo 7.0 alpha has 662 preference settings. Can you see a trend? > > Pharo 5.1 had a 27.44 MB image. Pharo 6.1 had a 35.18 MB image. Pharo 7.0 alpha has a 47.97 MB image. Can you see a trend? > > Add to that the fact that Pharo is a nightmare when you want to port code. Just with the 7.0 release, 61 classes will be deprecated (and lots more to come if you search for the string "deprecated" into the code, most of the time hidden in the comments of the soon-to-be-deprecated-in-Pharo-8-I-guess classes). > > You have code that deals with sockets, should you use the old Socket classes or convert everything to Zodiac? And why do we keep both "frameworks" in the image ? Pharo hasn't been backward compatible with "old socket classes" a looooooong time ago anyway! > > You have code that deals with dependencies, should you use the old dependents mechanism or convert everything to announcements? > > UI speaking, what framework should anyone use ? Athens? Something else? > > You have code that deals with streams, should you use the old stream classes or convert everything to Zinc ? And why do we keep both "frameworks" in the image ? Pharo hasn't been backward compatible with the old stream classes a looooooong time ago anyway! > > So what's the plan? For instance, should I keep using the Nautilus Browser or I should switch to the Calypso browser and get used to it because Nautilus will be deprecated? Or should I just don't care because a third system browser will be added in Pharo 8 just because "it's cool, let's add this one too!" ? > > Couldn't we just decide on what's "official" and what's a goodie or an external optional tool/package/framework the same way all other Smalltalks do? If you say Calypso is the official & supported browser, fine! Then just get Nautilus out of the image, create a nice loadable package for it and if someone prefers Nautilus, they'll just have to load it into the image, the same way VW has a gazillion optional tools/packages/frameworks you can load from a parcel! > > Whenever I get asked a simple question by a newbie like "Oh, which system browser should I use?", quite frankly, I don't know what to answer. Did we include Calypso to deprecate Nautilus later? Is Calypso just a proof of concept? Is it just an optional tool? What about all those delay schedulers? > > "I loaded this code from SqueakSource and it just doesn't work". Should I help the guy to fix it or just tell him to convert all the code to the corresponding framework in Pharo? > > Perhaps a little bit of clarity and details about what's coming and what's the plan would be beneficial to a lot of us. > > > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > Instagram: Chef_Benito > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) >

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[ANN] Agile Artificial Intelligence: Programming Neural Networks in Pharo
by Alexandre Bergel April 22, 2018

April 22, 2018

Hi! It is now time to share an early version of a new book. https://agileartificialintelligence.github.io <https://agileartificialintelligence.github.io/> Feedback is very welcome. Kind regards, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

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Re: [Pharo-users] [squeak-dev] min:max:
by Ben Coman April 21, 2018

April 21, 2018

On Sat, 21 Apr 2018, Ben Coman wrote: > > On 21 April 2018 at 03:51, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Out of curiosity. >> >> I always found the #min:max: confusing and lost in its >> expressiveness. >> >> One should write: >> >> 10 min: 48 max: 12 >> >> to expect 12. >> >> but logically one (at least me) may want to express it as: >> >> 10 min: 12 max: 48 >> >> Then when reading its source code, it is even more confusing: >> >> min: aMin max: aMax >> ^ (self min: aMin) max: aMax >> >> Are not the argument names inversed in their meaning, if any? >> >> >> I would agree. I see most use by Color like... >> >> Color>>adjustBrightness: brightness >> "Adjust the relative brightness of this color. (lowest value is >> 0.005 so that hue information is not lost)" >> >> ^ self class >> h: self hue >> s: self saturation >> v: (self brightness + brightness min: 1.0 max: 0.005) >> alpha: self alpha >> >> Trying to read that twists my brain. >> >> >> I can understand the intent from the implementation >> min: aMin max: aMax >> ^ (self min: aMin) max: aMax >> >> but that message might more properly be #min:thenMax: >> However something like >> (self brightness + brightness boundedBy: 0.005 and: 1.0) >> (self brightness + brightness boundedMin: 0.005 max: 1.0) >> seems more intention revealing. >> >> >> Altering #min:max semantics would make awful portability, >> but perhaps it should forward to a new method to make it clear the other >> is preferred. >> >> Would the Squeak community be amenable to a similar change? >> I'd be happy to contribute the changes to the Squeak Inbox. >> > On 21 April 2018 at 17:56, Levente Uzonyi <leves(a)caesar.elte.hu> wrote: > Squeak has #clampLow:high: for this reason. > > Thanks Levente. Thats a good one. With similar usage clamping signals in electronics, this is worthwhile to adopt. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/21758/Replace-min-max-with-clampLow-High cheers -ben

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Time limit to execute a test
by Hilaire April 21, 2018

April 21, 2018

Hi, I have a test taking more than the 10 seconds limit to execute completely. I tried to adjust this limit but failed to get it taken in consideration. I tried from 3 places: - in the test method itself - in TestCase setUp - in a dedicated TestResources The adjustment seems to alway been too late, the limit is still at 10s. To adjust the limit I did as following, for example in a dedicated TestResource: setUp Â Â Â "Some recursive scripts need more time to execute completely" Â Â Â defaultTimeLimitBackup := TestCase defaultTimeLimit. Â Â Â TestCase defaultTimeLimit: 60 seconds. tearDown Â Â Â TestCase defaultTimeLimit: defaultTimeLimitBackup From the debugger raised at the test fail, I can see the DefaultTimeLimit is correctly set to 60s. If I adjust this time limit before executing test case, for example from the settings browser, it is going fine. But I will prefer adjust it programmatically. Any idea? Thanks Hilaire -- Dr. Geo http://drgeo.eu

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Migrating Seaside book to Pillar on github
by Stephane Ducasse April 21, 2018

April 21, 2018

Hi I decided to start to migrate the Seaside book to Pillar and make it a community-oriented book. I will work regularly on it and offer it as a gift to the community. https://github.com/SquareBracketAssociates/DynamicWebDevelopmentWithSeaside If some of you want to join the effort, you are welcome. Stef

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Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?
by Andrei Stebakov April 20, 2018

April 20, 2018

That would definitely help if Pharo shed some of its elitism with fancy names. Then it would have much more appeal for the masses (and definitely increase popularity of Smalltalk) but it is the intent of the community, that's the question. On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 4:09 PM, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users < pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > Cc: "sean(a)clipperadams.com" <sean(a)clipperadams.com> > Bcc: > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 20:09:43 +0000 (UTC) > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ? > I concur with Sean's comments. The problem is not using names : the > problem is for new users. > > A very quick look at what's in Pharo 7 shows the following names : Iceberg, > Ombu, Calypso, Flashback, Nautilus, Renraku, Zodiac, Shift, Zinc, Hermes, > Beacon, Cargo, Hermes, Opal, Shoreline, Epicea, Balloon, BlueInk, > Commander, Fuel, Glamorous, Glamour, Gofer, Hiedra, Metacello, Moose, Ring, > Rubric, Shout, Spec, etc... > > How many Pharo *users* (not regular contributors!) know what those > tools/frameworks/packages do ??? Make the test and tell us how many out of > 30 names you were able to identify correctly ! > > Unless we *clearly* publicize/describe what those names are, there's no > way in a thousand years you could tell that BlueInk is not a package > dealing with fonts (that was my first guess) ! > > Newcomers and (developers in general) expect a few things. For instance, > there's a gazillion UI frameworks out there and, most of the time, the name > used for them is one of a famous painter. VisualWorks had Chagall for > instance. > > Or you'd expect some kind of hint from the name, e.g. XStreams, > ScriptManager, RefactoringBrowser. > > Or somethings as simple as Regex, the regex package from Bykov. Or > Announcements from the same guy. > > Or names that reveals something from an etymology standpoint, e.g. > TelePharo. > > The simple fact that someone had to create a file to describe all those > names/projects/framework on GitHub tells us a lot (https://github.com/ > AdamSadovsky/pharo-family/blob/master/catalog.txt) ! > > Unless we make it *EXTRA* clear and easily searchable and obvious what > those names represent, it's just more confusion for the newcomer. > > Do you know what Celery is? Probably not! But if I ask you the same > question for RabbitMQ, ActiveMQ, MQSeries, StormMQ, SnakeMQ, IronMQ, > ZeroMQ, MQTT and MSMQ, you probably figured out it's related to message > queues, right? Well, Celery is also related to message queues... See? > > There's nothing worse or more confusing than a bad/weird/unrelated name. > For example, the biggest company in Canada is called "Canadian Tire". If > you think you're gonna end up in a place specialized in tires, you're off > for a big surprise !!!! > > On the other end of the spectrum, you have something like iTunes. > Everybody knows iTunes. And I guess, even if you didn't know, you can > kinda easily guess it's related to music. Your grandma might not exactly > remember the name but she'll remember "Was it xTunes? zTunes? yTunes? It > was something 'tunes', to music" ! > > And comparing other "names" with Pharo names makes no sense. Nike, > Hibernate, Jenkins, Docker and Oracle cannot be compared to Epicea, > BlueInk, Flashback and Opal. They just don't have the same visibility and > public exposure. That is hopefully a problem that will vanish as Pharo > gets more and more attention and users and gets known more and more. But > in the meantime, those names merely help us differentiate implementations > of solutions, for us the *regulars*. > > Was it really that hard to replace the old workspace with Workspace2 or > WhateverWorkspace ? Or even better : get rid of the old Workspace and > replace it with Playground while retaining the name "Workspace" ??? Did we > really need to call it Playground and confuse every new Smalltalker out > there that has seen the term "Workspace" for Dolphin, Smalltalk/X, > VisualAge, VisualWorks, ObjectStudio, GNU Smalltalk, Amber, PharoJS, > Smalltalk MT and every other Smalltalk around *EXCEPT* Pharo? > > Why are we trying to complicate things when we could just make it > soooooooooooooo simple? > > Let's make it easy for **newcomers** to get their way around and know what > the named tools/frameworks do. Get rid of duplicate tools (do we need more > than one kind of Inspector? Do we need 2 compilers? Do we need 8 Delay > schedulers? Do we need 2 system browsers? Do we need the duo > Workspace/Playground) ? Make these extra tools available somewhere it can > be loaded from if a user *really* wants them in their image, but let's keep > those OUT of the image! > > > > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > Instagram: Chef_Benito > IRC: lamneth > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > > On Friday, April 20, 2018, 10:09:13 a.m. EDT, Sean P. DeNigris < > sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > > > Stephane Ducasse-3 wrote > > I like when developers are talking about names: > > They use a mac and not a computer, they were nike, lewis and not shoes > > and pants.... > > So guys can we focus our energy on positive things. > > IHMO this is certainly a positive subject because it highlights the > as-yet-to-be-resolved tension regarding understandability of the system > between having a unique name (good for googling, distinguishing between > versions) and a name that reveals what the project does/is for. What is the > plan to resolve this because it is a real problem? > > Nike and Levis are designed to stand on their own in front of the consumer > market. Is this true of Nautilus, Calypso, or Epicea? > > A more relevant example of products that are geared to be presented to > consumers as /part of/ another more-uniquely-named product come to mind: OS > release codenames: > - Mac - OS X 10.11: El Capitan and macOS 10.12: Sierra. Note that they > didn't just invent a random-seeming fabricated name and tell people to get > over it, they also provide a number which situates it in its domain. > - Interestingly Windows has moved back to boring release numbers and has > dropped the fantasy names > > Possible solutions: > - Make project tags /the primary view for new users when searching the > system. There is a lot of talk about students and having to explain > confusing things to them. Would it not be more straightforward to look for > a > "Class Browser" or "SCM" category?! > - If projects are designed just-for-pharo, maybe borrow another trick from > OS X - have a codename for development (like Fuji for Sierra) and then > change it to something more generic on release, like Browser3, although now > that we seem to be keeping tools in their own project repos, that might be > problematic > > I summary, IMHO it is important to provide both: > - A clear, searchable, pragmatic way to navigate/understand the system > - As well as the unique, google-able, but usually undescriptive way we have > > now > > > > ----- > Cheers, > > Sean > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > > >

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