- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

[FOSDEM] Grafoscopio
by Santiago Bragagnolo Feb. 7, 2020

Feb. 7, 2020

Fosdem organization uploaded the videos on grafoscopio :). Maybe it would be nice to spread it through our medias https://video.fosdem.org/2020/AW1.126/open_research_pocket_infrastructures.… https://video.fosdem.org/2020/AW1.126/open_research_pocket_infrastructures.… Santiago

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Pharo 8.0 via get.pharo.org
by Konrad Hinsen Feb. 7, 2020

Feb. 7, 2020

Hi everyone, it looks like get.pharo.org suffers from some confusion about its own files. Here's what happens when I try to download the stable VM for macOS: url https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 | bash [8:01:43] % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed 100 5320 100 5320 0 0 110k 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 112k Downloading the latest pharoVM: http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: new name: replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [{ENTER}] replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [if [ "$OS] replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [" == "win] ... Closer inspection reveals that the script I get from https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 downloads the zip file http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip which contains Pharo.app, not the VM to run from the command line. This looks like a bug, but not in Pharo. So... what's the right place to report such a bug? Cheers, Konrad.

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Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"
by Sven Van Caekenberghe Feb. 7, 2020

Feb. 7, 2020

BenoÃ®t, Stop this non-sense, please. For somebody, intelligent, with decades experience in using some Smalltalk implementation, who has been on this list for years, you have a very hard time reading and understanding what is being said, and you know it. The whole reason Pharo exists is to break free from the constraints of other people's ideas of what Smalltalk is and should remain to be. We don't want that, it is a simple as that. We will help and support anybody doing anything with Pharo, as we have always done. In open source, you cannot go some mailing list and tell people what should be done and endlessly discuss about that: just do it yourself. Sven > On 6 Feb 2020, at 10:00, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk" > Date: 6 February 2020 at 10:00:04 GMT+1 > To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > > > Then I have a question... and I'm not being sarcastic here! > > As Pharo users, are we allowed to suggest ideas from other environments, even other languages or projects? > > If I think we should implement something similar to VisualWork's MemoryPolicy in Pharo, where should I discuss that? > > If I see package XYZ in Python that I think would be worth porting to Pharo, where should I discuss that? > > If there are features in the Atom editor that are worth considering & cool for Pharo, where should I discuss that? > > If I have ideas/places/means to promote Pharo or give it exposure, where should I discuss that? > > If VisualAge has a nice config map to interface MQSeries and I'd like to know if a port to Pharo would interest anyone, where should I discuss that? > > If I want to know if there's any interest to develop a native DB2 database driver, should I discuss it here ? From what I've read, the answer is NO. Do you really think that if I post "hey guys, we should really port that to Pharo" on comp.databases.ibm-db2, it will draw any attention from Pharoers ? This is getting ridiculous! > > I mean, are we limited to only discuss about what's in the Pharo image? Yeah, the Collection hierarchy is cool but are we gonna talk about that for the next 5 years? As a Pharo USER, I am not limited to what's in the image : Pharo interfaces with lots of things on the outside. If we can't discuss about what's outside of the image and that could improve Pharo (library-wise), tell me where I can do so! > > If I understand correctly, we can't talk about anything that is not 100% Pharo on pharo-dev, pharo-users and lse-pharo4pharo, is that it ?!?!?!? What's left for the "outside world" ? > > P.S. I'm not saying that this mailing list should be a catch-all place where we can discuss about baseball, fishing, cars, music, chess, C# and politics. There has to be a way to sometimes discuss about stuff that is "outside" of Pharo but that could help us improve it! > > On 2020-02-06 03:21, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> Then let it phrase it like this: this list is not to talk about the whole Smalltalk universe but this particular implementation. > > -- > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > Instagram: Chef_Benito > IRC: lamneth > GitHub: bstjean > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > > >

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Pharo image processing library
by Pablo Navarro Feb. 6, 2020

Feb. 6, 2020

Hi everyone! Iâm searching for one library for image processing in Pharo. I couldn't find anything (only wrappers) so I tried programming one for basic operations (sum, subtraction) with images using class âFormâ. What do you think about this? For providing a context, I'm studying a PhD. in image processing, but all of the operations that I do, do it in Python. I try using Pharo for more fun :D. Best Regards Pablo.

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Re: [Pharo-users] Promoting Pharo
by Norbert Hartl Feb. 6, 2020

Feb. 6, 2020

Are the numbers the order in which you will do it? Norbert > Am 06.02.2020 um 11:37 schrieb Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org>: > > > Von: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > Betreff: Promoting Pharo > Datum: 6. Februar 2020 um 11:37:00 MEZ > An: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > > Some rough & simple ideas... > > 1) Make Pharo visible on Rosetta.org > > There is currently 1006 tasks (mini projects) implemented in 764 programming languages. Pharo is nowhere to be seen there, besides the programming language entry on the wiki for Pharo still points to pharo-project.org. This project has the advantage of exposing programming languages with small tasks/problems any newbie can work on. You always have the option to compare how it's done in your favorite language with the one you're trying to learn. Rosetta.org is often a useful and popular source for people wanting to learn a new programming language by starting with some simple problems. > > http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code > > 2) Hacker Public Radio (aka HPR) > > This podcast has a big audience and lots of loyal followers. Anyone can create a podcast and upload it there for broadcast. Normally, 99% the podcasts are related to computer science, programming and technology. It is a well-known and respected podcast as they have already created over 3000 podcasts already (it's a daily podcast)! They are very flexible on what you can talk about and pretty lax on the format : as long as you talk about something you love and that could interested other, it's fine with them! > > http://hackerpublicradio.org/ > > 3) FLOSS Weekly > > Another well-known podcast with lots of listeners! They've already covered Squeak and Seaside (long ago) but they haven't talked about Pharo yet. Randall (Schwartz) is always looking for new guests and new subjects so I'm pretty sure having a podcast about Pharo would be easy and quick! > > https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly > > 4) CLBG > > The Computer Language Benchmark Game is another good place to get exposure. BUT I suggest we wait a bit before publishing code there as, obviously, we won't get good numbers as compared to other languages... Let's wait for Pablo to finish his threading stuff in the VM first... ;) > > https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/index.html > > -- > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > Instagram: Chef_Benito > IRC: lamneth > GitHub: bstjean > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > > >

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Re: [Pharo-users] Large Image Generator
by tesonep＠gmail.com Feb. 6, 2020

Feb. 6, 2020

Hi Benoit, the main idea as always is to have better tests. We have seen that Pharo, and many users reported, that Pharo does not behaves correctly in some cases when handling large images. When I take about large images, I am talking about images with a lot of code and/or with a lot of data (yes the code for us is data... but I am just differencing because if we are testing senders / implementors we don't care about having a 10GB ByteArray). Also we have seen that for correctly testing this scenarios, we need good images, because depending the characteristics of the image it stress different parts of the system. As you correctly said we need to improve the tools (Calypso, System Navigation, Spotter, Iceberg, etc) and the infrastructure (GC, Compiler, VM in general). So we need to generate a lot of different images with different characteristics. Also, as you correctly mentioned we need to generate images with static behavior and with dynamic behavior (e.g., lots of concurrent processes). The main goal of the project is to start a recollection of existing solutions and to add new ones to generate this synthetic images. We want also to generate images that reproduce the nature of images. For example, it is not enough to generate random method selectors if we are testing the indexing of them. A good index varies its performance depending of the nature of the text. We need to generate random methods following some rules a developer whould use, for example using more a given word or using real words. So basically, we started collecting the easy algorithms to generate and we will add more, and of course, it is open to contribution from anyone and to different usage scenarios. The two I have implemented are the ones we are using this week to solve three issues: (1) improving the startup time, (2) improving the detection of deprecated methods, (3) improving the analysis of big literal methods. I have finished 1, the other two we are in working. Also, I will like to add an implementation of the work of Clement and Sophie to generate images to stress the GC. If you have ideas or things to add let's share them!! Cheers, Pablo On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 6:48 PM Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > Just read that announcement > (https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2020/01/29/ann-large-image-generator/) > on Pharo Weekly. > > Anyone knows more about the precise goal of that project? What is the > exact purpose of those images and what are we trying to test? Garbage > collection? The VM behavior under stress? Limitations of Pharo on a > specific OS? A reference against which future versions will be > benchmarked for performance? Iceberg and code management performance? > How base classes react when they have to deal with millions of objects > (e.g. a Bag with 15 million objects, forking 15000 processes, creating > 20000 semaphores, etc) ? > > -- > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > Instagram: Chef_Benito > IRC: lamneth > GitHub: bstjean > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > -- Pablo Tesone. tesonep(a)gmail.com

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Promoting Pharo
by Benoit St-Jean Feb. 6, 2020

Feb. 6, 2020

Some rough & simple ideas... 1) Make Pharo visible on Rosetta.org There is currently 1006 tasks (mini projects) implemented in 764 programming languages. Pharo is nowhere to be seen there, besides the programming language entry on the wiki for Pharo still points to pharo-project.org. This project has the advantage of exposing programming languages with small tasks/problems any newbie can work on.Â You always have the option to compare how it's done in your favorite language with the one you're trying to learn. Rosetta.org is often a useful and popular source for people wanting to learn a new programming language by starting with some simple problems. http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code 2) Hacker Public Radio (aka HPR) This podcast has a big audience and lots of loyal followers. Anyone can create a podcast and upload it there for broadcast. Normally, 99% the podcasts are related to computer science, programming and technology.Â It is a well-known and respected podcast as they have already created over 3000 podcasts already (it's a daily podcast)! They are very flexible on what you can talk about and pretty lax on the format : as long as you talk about something you love and that could interested other, it's fine with them! http://hackerpublicradio.org/ 3) FLOSS Weekly Another well-known podcast with lots of listeners! They've already covered Squeak and Seaside (long ago) but they haven't talked about Pharo yet.Â Randall (Schwartz) is always looking for new guests and new subjects so I'm pretty sure having a podcast about Pharo would be easy and quick! https://twit.tv/shows/floss-weekly 4) CLBG The Computer Language Benchmark Game is another good place to get exposure. BUT I suggest we wait a bit before publishing code there as, obviously, we won't get good numbers as compared to other languages...Â Let's wait for Pablo to finish his threading stuff in the VM first...Â ;) https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/index.html -- ----------------- BenoÃ®t St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean Instagram: Chef_Benito IRC: lamneth GitHub: bstjean Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)

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Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"
by horrido Feb. 6, 2020

Feb. 6, 2020

I've never posted to /r/smalltalk. There's no point in preaching to the choir. I posted to /r/programming and everybody there tried to lynch me. Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list wrote > FWIW I am one of the mods of /r/smalltalk - happy to have material > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 5, 2020, at 13:12, horrido < > horrido.hobbies@ > > wrote: >> >> Reddit is a strange bird. I have found more resistance to Smalltalk there >> than from any other source on the planet. Moreover, those people *really* >> don't appreciate me evangelizing anything. Consequently, I've avoided >> Reddit >> like the plague. >> >> I don't know what kind of readership exists at Reddit, but they are >> openly >> hostile. So you'll forgive me if I don't lend much credence to what >> Redditors say. >> >> >> >> Pavel Krivanek-3 wrote >>> st 5. 2. 2020 v 20:48 odesÃlatel horrido < >> >>> horrido.hobbies@ >> >>> > napsal: >>> >>>> I learned a long time ago that you can't please everybody. I've heard >>>> the >>>> critics about my evangelism. I've also heard the praise. >>>> >>>> So what am I supposed to do? Listen to the critics and ignore the fans? >>>> >>>> If you're an evangelist, you have to develop a thick skin and follow >>>> your >>>> heart. Otherwise, get out of the kitchen... >>>> >>> >>> You are a victim of your own strong confirmation bias. I hardly can >>> break >>> it but I just want to point out that in the mentioned discussion, there >>> was >>> no fan of you (and there were more people complaining than the two I >>> mentioned). >>> >>> Pavel Krivanek-3 wrote >>>>> st 5. 2. 2020 v 19:02 odesÃlatel horrido < >>>> >>>>> horrido.hobbies@ >>>> >>>>> > napsal: >>>>> >>>>>>> You want to take the Smalltalk heritage as a definition, thatâs ok. >>>> We >>>>>> donât, and thatâs ok too. Is about what we want to do. >>>>>> >>>>>> Who's "we"? >>>>>> >>>>>> Last time I checked, nobody owns Pharo. Pharo is not a bunch of core >>>>>> developers; it's a community. And I believe there are many Pharoers >>>> who >>>>>> share my view. >>>>>> >>>>>> Since I'm a Smalltalk evangelist and not a Pharo evangelist, I guess >>>>>> I >>>>>> shouldn't ever mention Pharo in my blog. After all, if it's not >>>>>> Smalltalk, >>>>>> why should I promote it??? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Pharo 8.0 release Reddit discussion included some feedback you >>>>> may appreciate: >>>>> >>>>> "Thanks. Does this Pharo release removes feature "Richard Kenneth >>>>> Eng"? >>>>> That was the only feature in detriment to such an excellent >>>>> environment >>>> as >>>>> Pharo." >>>>> >>>>> "I really like the idea of pharo's features and smalltalk is quite >>>>> interesting, but I can't help but be put off by the insanely stupid >>>>> marketing culture around it. Most articles about it exaggerate way too >>>>> much >>>>> and seem like they're written by people who were paid to write about >>>> it. >>>>> Or >>>>> maybe I'm reading Medium-cancer too much." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> In fact, this is disastrous for my JRMPC competition since it's based >>>>>> entirely on Pharo. I'm promoting Smalltalk but pushing Pharo on all >>>> the >>>>>> participating teams??? What the f*ck am I doing?!! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

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Fuzzy Thinking in Smalltalk
by Richard Kenneth Eng Feb. 5, 2020

Feb. 5, 2020

>From Lorenzo Schiavina: https://smalltalk.tech.blog/2020/02/04/fuzzy-thinking-in-smalltalk/ There's a minor issue with WordPress: embedded slideshows steal the keyboard focus so that you can't use PageUp and PageDown keys to navigate the webpage. I've reported it to WordPress and they're working on it. I'm still looking for more blog post submissions. Let's keep this blog alive!

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Call for reviewers for Roassal3
by Alexandre Bergel Feb. 4, 2020

Feb. 4, 2020

TL;DR: Reviewing form for Roassal3: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1-8CJM5_TDu3HBE2d_2dPjqq1pTLZRuauMtPcZZYZXI… Longer version: Dear Community, Right after ESUG 2019 we released a beta version of Roassal3, and we got many very constructive feedbacks from all over the World. We thank you for this. We really tried to improve Roassal3 and specially to provide a smooth and intuitive API to lower the entrance bar for Roassal3. Now is time to enter a new reviewing phase. Our ultimate goal is to provide the visualization engine that the Pharo and Smalltalk communities deserve. The GiHub page contains some information, including a small tutorial: https://github.com/ObjectProfile/Roassal3 Additional tutorials will soon come. You can install Roassal3 either from the catalog (just look for Roassal3), or execute the following instruction: Metacello new baseline: âRoassal3â; repository: âgithub://ObjectProfile/Roassal3â; load. Roassal3 comes with many examples. You should look for the package: Roassal3-Examples We would like to end the reviewing page at the end of March 2020. A second edition of Agile Visualization will begin after March 31. Your comment will definitely have an impact on this new book. Reviewers of Roassal3 will: - Have their name listed in Roassal3's website - Have their name listed in the new edition of Agile Visualization - Have a beer next time we meet at ESUG or at Annual Smalltalk meetup in Palo Alto - Make the Pharo community stronger, really. Here is the google form to gather your feedback: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1-8CJM5_TDu3HBE2d_2dPjqq1pTLZRuauMtPcZZYZXI… Thanks! The Roassal3 development team

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