November 2010 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Smalltalk Labs Browser for blogs
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Nov. 15, 2010

Nov. 15, 2010

I confused it with the other browser. :) So indeed the license for the javascript code does not impact us. Stef On Nov 14, 2010, at 3:13 PM, HaiColon wrote: > > Hi StÃ©phane, > > If it should really be a problem for people I can certainly change the > license, at least for the client since the server uses Apache licensed code > from Google already and then it would have two licenses which would make > things unnecessarily complicated. The server is a rather small part though, > I wrote the first version in about 5 minutes and the version that is in use > now in about fifteen (not including the website, I spent way more time > writing text than coding). > > Pharo / Squeak aren't completely MIT though, they use the same Apache > License as I do for SLBfb so I didn't think it would be a problem. Is it > planned to completely replace the Apache code from Pharo with MIT code over > time? > > Here's why I chose the Apache License (without giving any legal advice or > guaranteeing that my understanding of the terms are correct, mind you!): > > It's more popular than the MIT license by a few orders of magnitude. I > didn't want to believe this myself since I know way more MIT licensed > software than Apache Software, but to be fair, who reads licenses unless he > really has to. 25% of projects on Google Code Project hosting were Apache in > 2008, only about 8% MIT according to Google. > > It's pretty much the same as the MIT license, safe for a few convenient > additional clauses, like saying that if a contributor contributes code to > the project it is assumed that his contribution is under the Apache License > unless he explicitly states otherwise. This can greatly help to prevent > misunderstandings. The really big difference is that it's actually written > with modern copyright law in mind, which is one of the reasons it's so much > longer than the MIT license. The MIT license might very well not be a valid > license. For example, in Germany where I come from it is not allowed to > disclaim liability, but the MIT license does that. Limiting the liability is > allowed, the Apache license does that. Since this is also a website/server > and not only a "local", "client side" application, the license being > actually applicable to keep me from being sued becomes much more important. > The chances are very slim that someone sues a tiny project like this but why > make it easier for anyone, there are tons of law firms who's whole business > model is suing people over unlawful license terms on websites (it's > outrageous that doing this is actually legal). > > Here's an interesting article from Google on open source licenses: > http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2008/05/standing-against-license-prol… > and an interview: > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/burnette/google-says-no-to-license-proliferation/… > > So to sum it up, I'm certainly open for discussion on this but I'd rather > not change the license unless it's really necessary (e.g. No one wants to > use it otherwise). It's not that I don't like the MIT license, it's my > favorite license, it's so short and easy to understand, I am using it for > Smalltalk Labs Browser (without the "for blogs" ^^) and used it many times > before, but it really does look like choosing the Apache License for future > projects is the right thing to do. What good is a license if it's not > applicable anyhow? > > Cheers, > Chris > > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >> would you mind to put the license MIT so that it is the same with Squeak >> and Pharo? >> >> Stef >> > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ANN-Smalltalk-Labs-Browser-for-blogs-tp3041451p304174… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users

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Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Smalltalk Labs Browser for blogs
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Nov. 14, 2010

Nov. 14, 2010

> Hi StÃ©phane, > > If it should really be a problem for people I can certainly change the > license, at least for the client since the server uses Apache licensed code > from Google already Your code is not all in Smalltalk? > and then it would have two licenses which would make > things unnecessarily complicated. The server is a rather small part though, > I wrote the first version in about 5 minutes and the version that is in use > now in about fifteen (not including the website, I spent way more time > writing text than coding). > > Pharo / Squeak aren't completely MIT though, they use the same Apache > License as I do for SLBfb so I didn't think it would be a problem. multiply license is always a problem. > Is it planned to completely replace the Apache code from Pharo with MIT code over > time? If we could we would. Right now only the VM code is APSL (if I'm correct) and all the rest is MIT > Here's why I chose the Apache License (without giving any legal advice or > guaranteeing that my understanding of the terms are correct, mind you!): > > It's more popular than the MIT license by a few orders of magnitude. I > didn't want to believe this myself since I know way more MIT licensed > software than Apache Software, but to be fair, who reads licenses unless he > really has to. 25% of projects on Google Code Project hosting were Apache in > 2008, only about 8% MIT according to Google. this is not an argument that is really interesting for us. The world can do whether it wants. > It's pretty much the same as the MIT license, safe for a few convenient > additional clauses, like saying that if a contributor contributes code to > the project it is assumed that his contribution is under the Apache License > unless he explicitly states otherwise. This can greatly help to prevent > misunderstandings. The really big difference is that it's actually written > with modern copyright law in mind, Probably but it probably implies that mere mortals cannot read it too. > which is one of the reasons it's so much > longer than the MIT license. The MIT license might very well not be a valid > license. I would be curious why MIT would not be a valid license. Lot of projects would be strange. MIT is a simple and understandable license. > For example, in Germany where I come from it is not allowed to > disclaim liability, but the MIT license does that. Limiting the liability is > allowed, the Apache license does that. Since this is also a website/server > and not only a "local", "client side" application, the license being > actually applicable to keep me from being sued becomes much more important. > The chances are very slim that someone sues a tiny project like this but why > make it easier for anyone, there are tons of law firms who's whole business > model is suing people over unlawful license terms on websites (it's > outrageous that doing this is actually legal). > > Here's an interesting article from Google on open source licenses: > http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2008/05/standing-against-license-prol… > and an interview: > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/burnette/google-says-no-to-license-proliferation/… > > So to sum it up, I'm certainly open for discussion on this but I'd rather > not change the license unless it's really necessary (e.g. No one wants to > use it otherwise). It's not that I don't like the MIT license, it's my > favorite license, it's so short and easy to understand, I am using it for > Smalltalk Labs Browser (without the "for blogs" ^^) and used it many times > before, but it really does look like choosing the Apache License for future > projects is the right thing to do. This is not the right things to do. Tracking license of code is a pain and a lost of time I prefer to focus on building exciting software than fighting with license issues. Now you can put your browser on APSL but my advice is don't do it. Keep it simple. > What good is a license if it's not > applicable anyhow? > > Cheers, > Chris > > > StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: >> >> would you mind to put the license MIT so that it is the same with Squeak >> and Pharo? >> >> Stef >> > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ANN-Smalltalk-Labs-Browser-for-blogs-tp3041451p304174… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users

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Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Smalltalk Labs Browser for blogs
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Nov. 14, 2010

Nov. 14, 2010

chris would you mind to put the license MIT so that it is the same with Squeak and Pharo? Stef On Nov 14, 2010, at 3:09 AM, HaiColon wrote: > > Hi, > > I released the first public version of "Smalltalk Labs Browser for blogs" > (or just SLBfb since that name is really long.. ^^), a JavaScript widget > that you can put on your blog (or any other kind of website) to offer your > readers a web based Smalltalk code browser for classes you mention or even > describe in an article or tutorial so that people don't need to have a > Smalltalk image at hand to understand what you're talking about. The widget > pops up when someone clicks on a classname and can be moved freely around a > website, but it tries to position itself automatically in the best position > when you don't move it by yourself and keeps doing so even when the web > browser is resized. > > The widget downloads the source code of a class from a database over the > net. At the moment the database has all 3093 classes of Pharo 1.1 in it and > more Smalltalks (where code redistribution is allowed) are going to come > soon, including some popular frameworks and libraries like Seaside. The only > requirement to add this to a blog is that you can add custom JavaScript to > your blog's template, you don't need a blog that runs on Smalltalk/Seaside > for this, which means most free blog services work fine (including Tumblr > and Blogger). > > I hope this will be of help to the Smalltalk community. It's completely free > and Open Source, licensed under the thoroughly permissive Apache License > Version 2.0 (both the widget and the database/website). I'm running this on > Google App Engine and the free quota (bandwidth, database space, CPU time, > etc.) should be enough to serve the whole Smalltalk community, or at least > that's the idea. > > You can try it out directly on the SLBfb website: > http://slbrowserfb.appspot.com or in my blog post about the release: > http://smalltalklabs.tumblr.com/post/1557829586/smalltalk-labs-browser-for-… > > If you scroll to the very bottom of the website, there's a link > "configuration" which will bring you to the interactive installation > documentation to install this on your own blog/website. > > Keep in mind that this is the first release (apart from the pre-release on > Pharocasts some time ago), so there could be some nasty bugs that only > happen when there's a full moon and someone tries to sing a ballad on one > leg with his arms tied behind his back. This only works in WebKit and > Mozilla browsers at the moment, but for unsupported browsers or when you > read a blog post that makes use of SLBfb in an RSS reader or on Planet > Smalltalk/Squeak, a website is used to display the classes mentioned > instead, so it still works but not as nicely. > > If someone wants to hack on the code, I'll release a screencast about how to > set up a local development environment some time next week, including a > small introduction on using the git version control system since the code is > hosted on Github. > > Cheers, > Chris > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/ANN-Smalltalk-Labs-Browser-for-blogs-tp3041451p304145… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users

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Re: [Pharo-users] GUI
by Simon Denier Nov. 12, 2010

Nov. 12, 2010

There is a small section about Morphic layout and Polymorph (with a sample app) in the online book http://book.pharo-project.org/book/GUI That and the UITheme example can get you started. We are still looking for someone sufficiently knowledgeable, motivated, and with time to write a good GUI doc for Pharo :) On 12 nov. 2010, at 12:30, Daniel Klein wrote: > There is nothing about this in the Pharo By Example book. Can anyone give an > example of how to use this? > > Dan > > -----Original Message----- > From: pharo-users-bounces(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.gforge.inria.fr] On Behalf Of StÃ©phane > Ducasse > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 2:55 > To: A friendly place where any question about pharo is welcome > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] GUI > > UITheme exampleBasicControls and friends > > Stef > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users -- Simon

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Re: [Pharo-users] GUI
by StÃ©phane Ducasse Nov. 12, 2010

Nov. 12, 2010

UITheme exampleBasicControls and friends Stef On Nov 12, 2010, at 3:25 AM, Jeff Gray wrote: > > Is there a direction we should be taking when writing a thick app in Pharo? > Morphic? Polymorph? > Would I benefit from learning Morphic and then looking at Polymorph? > Is there anything else instead? > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GUI-tp3038972p3038972.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users

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GUI
by Jeff Gray Nov. 12, 2010

Nov. 12, 2010

Is there a direction we should be taking when writing a thick app in Pharo? Morphic? Polymorph? Would I benefit from learning Morphic and then looking at Polymorph? Is there anything else instead? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/GUI-tp3038972p3038972.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Why...
by Daniel Klein Nov. 11, 2010

Nov. 11, 2010

...isn't my email to the list getting through? Dan

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SocketStream persistence
by Daniel Klein Nov. 11, 2010

Nov. 11, 2010

For my first real Pharo task I need to communicate with a server over telnet. As a proof of concept I cobbled this code into a workspace without regard for OO-anything (the hostname/login/password have been changed to protect the innocent ;-) | wire answer | [ wire := SocketStream openConnectionToHostNamed: 'myhost' port: 23. [ wire upToAll: 'login: '. wire nextPutAll: 'testlogin'; cr; flush. wire upToAll: 'Password: '. wire nextPutAll: 'dummypassword'; cr; flush. wire upToAll: '>'. wire nextPutAll: 'dbl'; cr; flush. wire upToAll: '?'. wire nextPutAll: '12'; cr; flush. wire upTo: Character lf. answer := Integer readFromString: (wire upTo: (Character value: 3)). wire upToAll: 'C:\home>'. wire nextPutAll: 'exit'. "close gracefully" ] ensure: [wire close]. ^ answer ] on: ConnectionClosed do: [:ex | Transcript show: ex asString;cr. ex resume]. The server process, dbl, is a simple C program that takes a number, n, as input and returns n*2. I'm using character 3 to indicate the end of the output sent back from the C program. This all works great and I get the expected answer of '24'. So, the next step was to simulate the server process taking a while to complete and then send back some form of acknowledgement. So I put a 'sleep 5 minutes' in the server process just prior to sending back the answer. The problem is that I then get a 'ConnectionTimedOut' error after about 45-50 seconds. If I change the 'on:' line to: on: ConnectionClosed, ConnectionTimedOut then this errors out with 'IllegalResumeAttempt'. How can I keep the connection alive while the server is 'busy'? As an aside, while Pharo is processing the above code, I can't do anything else until it either completes or errors out. I thought Pharo used 'green threads'? I'm using: Pharo-1.1.1-- Latest update: #11414 on Windows XP Pro. Dan

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hi all
by HERM1T Nov. 9, 2010

Nov. 9, 2010

i`m new in using ubuntu OS. how can i install pharo on it?? -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/hi-all-tp3032836p3032836.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Nov. 8, 2010

did you look at Sophie Stef On Nov 7, 2010, at 3:50 AM, James Ashley wrote: > This is a problem I haven't ever been able to even really even been > able to contemplate expressing in another language. Yet again, my > apologies if this is the wrong forum for such a discussion. > > I'd like to be able to write a program that allows me to plot out a > "story board" for a series of books. The details are pretty nebulous > at this point. > > I'm imagining a series of classes that include things like a TimeLine, > Characters, Map, and Scenes. It seems to me that each Scene would need > some sort of instance of each Character--his/her outfit, etc. > > Now, assuming I were some sort of amazingly prolific writer, it seems > like I'd wind up with a huge collection of Packages to wander through. > Especially if I started trying to mix and match characters. "For this > book, I'd like to use Santa Claus *and* the Easter Bunny"...characters > I created for earlier books that belonged separate packages, back > then. And probably will again, for my next book. > > I'm actually thinking of a website that allows authors to set up > story-boarding scenarios. Which would mean creating class hierarchies > like this behind the scenes. Making RDBMS entries works, sort of, but > that just doesn't really cut the mustard. > > What's the idiomatic way to handle something like this? (Yes, it's all > theoretical...I'm a lousy fiction writer). Multiple images, importing > the bits and pieces that make sense for a given project? > > Thanks, > James > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-users mailing list > Pharo-users(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-users

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