January 2015 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] pharo _looks_ good, but can be improved ...

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

These are pharo-dev discussions, not pharo-users discussions. This is about stuff (far) in the future, not current usage. > On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:51, Aliaksei Syrel <alex.syrel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > What will happen with Athens when Pharo moves to Spur? As I know NativeBoost doesn't work in Spur yet > > Cheers, > Alex > > On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 25 Jan 2015, at 17:39, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: >> >> >> Am 25.01.2015 16:20 schrieb "Esteban Lorenzano" <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: >> > >> > But next year we will have an Athens based UI, so the performance will improve dramatically :) >> >> Yes? What? Bloc or morphic on top of athens ? >> > both > >> And what makes you think, Athens is fast er? >> > Athens directly in the screen (using SDL2) is faster (according all my experiments) > you cannot perceive it now because a surface is mapped to a bitmap to be displayed with current bitbltâ¦ but we plan to move away from that :) > >> > Real problem is to invest time (and talent) to improve current design... It costs much more than you could believe. >> > >> > Esteban >> > >> > >> > >> > > On 25/1/2015, at 15:42, Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh(a)kathe.in> wrote: >> > > >> > >> On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 03:35:40PM +0100, Aliaksei Syrel wrote: >> > >>> On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh(a)kathe.in> wrote: >> > >>> >> > >>> http://www.google.com/design/spec/material-design/introduction.html >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> It is almost impossible to do it like this in Pharo now because of low >> > >> drawing performance and bad support of animations. Sad but true. >> > > >> > > thanks for the note. >> > > >> > > per you, how long would this low drawing performance and bad support for >> > > animations issue hold true? >> > > >> > > ~mayuresh >> > > >> > > >> > > >

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] improving print-it in playground

by Sebastian Sastre

Sure, Iâd gladly sent you a merge request to get that improved Let me know how I could take a look > On Jan 25, 2015, at 3:34 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > >> On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:24, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: >> >> - the shared snippet page has a terrible design, the contrast issue is probably the most severe, being unclean the second one > > He Seb, > > I designed that years ago over a WE - you're right, I am really good at design ;-) > > It is just one page, do you care to propose a make over in concrete html/css. If you want I can try to give you access to the code that generates it (it is not open source as yet). > > Sven > > >

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] UI framework&design options

by Sebastian Heidbrink

Hi! Is there any library or resource where I could have a look what others have done with Spec? I have a hard time to find screenshots and additional information on what was used. Sebastian On 2015-01-25 2:34 AM, Johan Fabry wrote: > Hi Sebastian, > > for building UIs I would go with Spec. It however does not support > adding widgets without decoration straight to the desktop. Whatâs > wrong with having them open in different windows? If the windows keep > references to each other they can interact (more specifically if the > different ComposableModels keep references to each other they can use > each othersâ public API â¦ which you define as their implementer). > > As for pretty graphs, I recommend Roassal2 by the ObjectProfile guys. > It however cannot embed widgets in the graph as this is not its focus. > > Greetings, > >> On Jan 25, 2015, at 04:09, Sebastian Heidbrink <sheidev(a)yahoo.de >> <mailto:sheidev@yahoo.de>> wrote: >> >> Hi! >> >> I need to visualize&manipulate data within a graph representation. >> Something like the "Maya Node Editor >> <http://around-the-corner.typepad.com/adn/2013/09/maya-node-editor-and-attri…>". >> >> I am also interested in decorationless windows&widgets. Is it >> possible to embed entry fields, lists and such in the "desktop" of >> pharo? >> >> What is suitable for overlay menus? >> >> What would be the current framework to go with Pharo? >> Which one will still stay for a while (is supported by Pharo) and is >> thought to be well tested. >> >> Thank you for any advice, link, video, picture or hint. >> >> Sebastian > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry <http://pleiad.cl/%7Ejfabry> > PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile >

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] UI framework&design options

by Sebastian Heidbrink

Okay, .... I am new to the UI implementations and options in the Pharo world and I am really confused. So, am I right to say. - Polymorph is no more really the way to go? - Spec is the official way to go right now? - Roassal2 is the way to go for visualizations? - Athens is well, I can't even say.... hmm interesting when it comes to SVG? - Glamour has to be seen in conjunction with Moose? I had a look into GTSpotter and I have the feeling this took a long long time for implementation. - No e.g. Google material like UI possible since there are no frameworks available to do animation stuff.... didn't Squeak and E-Toys do that? Is there nothing left in Pharo? - Lumiere or Roassal3D when it come to sprites? Are all of these framework compatible to each other? How much maintenance and repair effort may I expect when I combine e.g. Spec with Morphic and Roassal2? VASmalltalk has a very strong separation of UI-View and UI-Control layers. Which Pharo framework could allow me t replace the look and feel of my application without loosing my event handling/ control layers? This is Smalltalk and this is objects, and I am bound so much to a windowing representation? There is nothing I could do like with HTML5 and css? Put some pictures in the world and just add event handlers to them? So I might go with Spec and Morphic then? Glamour is more Moose? Or is there a direction to deprecate one of them? Thanks for all you into so far. I'll carefully read all the so far provided resources. Sebastian On 2015-01-25 6:04 AM, Stephan Eggermont wrote: > That Maya Node Editor looks like a PasteUpMorph with Connectors to me. > You'd might want to wrap them (Morphic) in a in a standard window > with menu bar and toolbar from either Spec or Glamour for now. > > And then follow Bloc developments to move there. > > Stephan > >

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] pharo _looks_ good, but can be improved ...

by Aliaksei Syrel

Hi, What will happen with Athens when Pharo moves to Spur? As I know NativeBoost doesn't work in Spur yet Cheers, Alex On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 6:40 PM, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 25 Jan 2015, at 17:39, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > > Am 25.01.2015 16:20 schrieb "Esteban Lorenzano" <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > > > > But next year we will have an Athens based UI, so the performance will > improve dramatically :) > > Yes? What? Bloc or morphic on top of athens ? > > both > > And what makes you think, Athens is fast er? > > Athens directly in the screen (using SDL2) is faster (according all my > experiments) > you cannot perceive it now because a surface is mapped to a bitmap to be > displayed with current bitbltâ¦ but we plan to move away from that :) > > > Real problem is to invest time (and talent) to improve current design... > It costs much more than you could believe. > > > > Esteban > > > > > > > > > On 25/1/2015, at 15:42, Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh(a)kathe.in> wrote: > > > > > >> On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 03:35:40PM +0100, Aliaksei Syrel wrote: > > >>> On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh(a)kathe.in> > wrote: > > >>> > > >>> http://www.google.com/design/spec/material-design/introduction.html > > >> > > >> > > >> It is almost impossible to do it like this in Pharo now because of low > > >> drawing performance and bad support of animations. Sad but true. > > > > > > thanks for the note. > > > > > > per you, how long would this low drawing performance and bad support > for > > > animations issue hold true? > > > > > > ~mayuresh > > > > > > > > > > >

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] pharo _looks_ good, but can be improved ...

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 25 Jan 2015, at 17:39, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess(a)web.de> wrote: > > > Am 25.01.2015 16:20 schrieb "Esteban Lorenzano" <estebanlm(a)gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>>: > > > > But next year we will have an Athens based UI, so the performance will improve dramatically :) > > Yes? What? Bloc or morphic on top of athens ? > both > And what makes you think, Athens is fast er? > Athens directly in the screen (using SDL2) is faster (according all my experiments) you cannot perceive it now because a surface is mapped to a bitmap to be displayed with current bitbltâ¦ but we plan to move away from that :) > > Real problem is to invest time (and talent) to improve current design... It costs much more than you could believe. > > > > Esteban > > > > > > > > > On 25/1/2015, at 15:42, Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh(a)kathe.in <mailto:mayuresh@kathe.in>> wrote: > > > > > >> On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 03:35:40PM +0100, Aliaksei Syrel wrote: > > >>> On Sun, Jan 25, 2015 at 3:02 PM, Mayuresh Kathe <mayuresh(a)kathe.in <mailto:mayuresh@kathe.in>> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> http://www.google.com/design/spec/material-design/introduction.html <http://www.google.com/design/spec/material-design/introduction.html> > > >> > > >> > > >> It is almost impossible to do it like this in Pharo now because of low > > >> drawing performance and bad support of animations. Sad but true. > > > > > > thanks for the note. > > > > > > per you, how long would this low drawing performance and bad support for > > > animations issue hold true? > > > > > > ~mayuresh > > > > > > > >

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] improving print-it in playground

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 25 Jan 2015, at 18:24, Sebastian Sastre <sebastian(a)flowingconcept.com> wrote: > > - the shared snippet page has a terrible design, the contrast issue is probably the most severe, being unclean the second one He Seb, I designed that years ago over a WE - you're right, I am really good at design ;-) It is just one page, do you care to propose a make over in concrete html/css. If you want I can try to give you access to the code that generates it (it is not open source as yet). Sven

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Binary tree

by Sebastian Heidbrink

Here it is,... I new I saw this once. Maybe also this if you are looking for something particular. http://www.squeaksource.com/BTree.html On 2015-01-25 6:53 AM, Natalia Tymchuk wrote: > Hello, > > Is there any implementation of the binary tree in Pharo? > > Best reagards, > Natalia > > >

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] improving print-it in playground

by Sebastian Sastre

Itâs really nice to see innovation in this area. I feel grateful for this work. Here comes my UX notes Things I like: - Publish to the cloud - Able to copy-paste the content of the box with feedback - Encourages inspect of that very instance (this one was really good!) - transforms the printed result to comment. - clicking in the workspace makes the result disappear (good!) - full selects the comment after enter so a second enter can clean it - the shared snipped page has syntax highlight Things that I see can be improved: - the shared snippet page has a terrible design, the contrast issue is probably the most severe, being unclean the second one - the printed result transformed to comment gets injected at the cursor position and that functionality doesnât really make much sense (having it printed always at the end of the line you make more sense for example). - the inspect button doesnât look like a button and doesnât change the cursor on hover - No undo on cmd-z (this one feels like a deal-breaker) - The tab for me is a redundant feature with an unclean title (we have how to recall different workspaces from the bottom bar already) - The icon to publish to the cloud looks like download from the cloud (arrow points down instead of up) - The inspector is surprisingly complex and abuses the use of tabs - The inspector for Dictionary by default hides a naive observation of the object and assumes that a âsmartâ object aware presentation hiding behind a click the tree-like observation of instvars. - Also in inspector the icon for browse looks like a document, doesnât feel like a match good work! > On Jan 19, 2015, at 5:33 AM, Tudor Girba <tudor(a)tudorgirba.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > I worked with Andrei to find a solution for improving the print-it support. You can take a look here: > http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplayg… <http://www.humane-assessment.com/blog/improving-print-it-support-in-gtplayg…> > > The current solution can be found in the latest Pharo image. > > Cheers, > Doru > > -- > www.tudorgirba.com <http://www.tudorgirba.com/> > > "Every thing has its own flow"

Jan. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Binary tree

by Sebastian Heidbrink

You may have a look here? http://www.eli.sdsu.edu/courses/spring02/cs635/notes/btree/btree.html On 2015-01-25 6:53 AM, Natalia Tymchuk wrote: > Hello, > > Is there any implementation of the binary tree in Pharo? > > Best reagards, > Natalia > > >

Jan. 25, 2015