I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi, I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621> basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform). cheers, Esteban
I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things : - To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually. - Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text) I will continue to find this kind of thing Cheers, Franck From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test Hi, I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621 basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform). cheers, Esteban
For the alt + o + t it's maybe because we changes the shortcut today. Le jeudi 28 mai 2015, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> a écrit :
I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually. - Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck ------------------------------ From: estebanlm@gmail.com <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','estebanlm@gmail.com');> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org');> Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
-- Cheers Cyril Ferlicot
2015-05-28 19:59 GMT+02:00 Cyril Ferlicot <cyril.ferlicot@gmail.com>:
For the alt + o + t it's maybe because we changes the shortcut today.
This is a really bad change if you used to the old one. The old short cut for "open workspace" was alt+o+w. Now if you type alt+o+w it is recognized as alt+w which closes the active window. (But maybe I need just some time to get used to the new ones)
Le jeudi 28 mai 2015, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> a écrit :
I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually. - Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck ------------------------------ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
-- Cheers Cyril Ferlicot
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>:
I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually.
this changed just recently 15612 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15612> ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut. (pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
- Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck ------------------------------ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl? Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr <mailto:franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>>: I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually.
this changed just recently 15612 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15612> ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut.
(pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
- Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck From: estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621>
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
Should be ctrl (one in windows almost never uses alt). But Nicolai said there was a bug in there. I didn't have the time to look into that yet. El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:17 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano < estebanlm@gmail.com> escribió:
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>:
I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually.
this changed just recently 15612 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15612> ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut.
(pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
- Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck ------------------------------ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
Currently, on Windows, the keymapping framework knows only two modifiers "ctrl" and "command" the windows key "alt" maps to "command" 2015-05-28 20:16 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>:
I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually.
this changed just recently 15612 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15612> ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut.
(pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
- Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck ------------------------------ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
(whoops accidentally sent that last post)
and since we are there: What happens with linux?
Esteban
Linux is the same as Windows.
On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote: To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key.
This confuses the issue. :) From Pharo's perspective, the windows-key does not exist. I really believe the windows-key should *not* be considered a meta-key, and some call it the super-key. On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
Currently, on Windows, the keymapping framework knows only two modifiers "ctrl" and "command" the windows key "alt" maps to "command"
2015-05-28 20:16 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
Note that he said *currently* , not that it was correct. Indeed it is wrong per platform conventions. Observe all the PharoShortcuts saying for example... ^ $b command mac | $b ctrl win | $b ctrl unix That is... Linux/Windows meta-key = Ctrl. OSX meta-key = Cmd Alt should remain Alt and be equivalent to Option on osx, but it seems on Windows that somewhere low level the Alt key *becomes* a Cmd key. This needs to be killed.
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
Thanks for doing this. It might be a bit bumpy road but really needs to be done. Now my opinion is based on previously being a long term Windows Pharo user, but right now I need to find a Windows machine to assist. cheers -ben
well, along with this slice I opened: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15627 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15627> who âfixesâ the glamour issue. but it needs to be integrated so it will take a couple of days more. hope with this at least the look of menus are normalised. after we need to work on removing old shortcuts and add them through keybindings, then we can have a coherent shortcut set (one step at a time). Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 21:19, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
(whoops accidentally sent that last post)
and since we are there: What happens with linux?
Esteban
Linux is the same as Windows.
On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote: To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key.
This confuses the issue. :) From Pharo's perspective, the windows-key does not exist. I really believe the windows-key should *not* be considered a meta-key, and some call it the super-key.
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
Currently, on Windows, the keymapping framework knows only two modifiers "ctrl" and "command" the windows key "alt" maps to "command"
2015-05-28 20:16 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
Note that he said *currently* , not that it was correct. Indeed it is wrong per platform conventions. Observe all the PharoShortcuts saying for example... ^ $b command mac | $b ctrl win | $b ctrl unix
That is... Linux/Windows meta-key = Ctrl. OSX meta-key = Cmd
Alt should remain Alt and be equivalent to Option on osx, but it seems on Windows that somewhere low level the Alt key *becomes* a Cmd key. This needs to be killed.
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
Thanks for doing this. It might be a bit bumpy road but really needs to be done. Now my opinion is based on previously being a long term Windows Pharo user, but right now I need to find a Windows machine to assist. cheers -ben
We already have some issues about that, we just need to do the work. https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15289/GLMAction-should-use-PharoShortcut https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15619/cleanup-TextEditors-shortcut-definit... https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15585/We-need-to-clean-hard-code-shortcuts... https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15582/MethodWidget-class-elementsMenu-have... https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15292/GLMPopper-GLMPrintPopper-GLMWatcherW... On 28 May 2015 at 21:25, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
well, along with this slice I opened: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15627
who âfixesâ the glamour issue. but it needs to be integrated so it will take a couple of days more.
hope with this at least the look of menus are normalised.
after we need to work on removing old shortcuts and add them through keybindings, then we can have a coherent shortcut set (one step at a time).
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 21:19, Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:
(whoops accidentally sent that last post)
and since we are there: What happens with linux?
Esteban
Linux is the same as Windows.
On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote: To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key.
This confuses the issue. :) From Pharo's perspective, the windows-key does not exist. I really believe the windows-key should *not* be considered a meta-key, and some call it the super-key.
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
Currently, on Windows, the keymapping framework knows only two modifiers "ctrl" and "command" the windows key "alt" maps to "command"
2015-05-28 20:16 GMT+02:00 Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com>:
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
Note that he said *currently* , not that it was correct. Indeed it is wrong per platform conventions. Observe all the PharoShortcuts saying for example... ^ $b command mac | $b ctrl win | $b ctrl unix
That is... Linux/Windows meta-key = Ctrl. OSX meta-key = Cmd
Alt should remain Alt and be equivalent to Option on osx, but it seems on Windows that somewhere low level the Alt key *becomes* a Cmd key. This needs to be killed.
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
Thanks for doing this. It might be a bit bumpy road but really needs to be done. Now my opinion is based on previously being a long term Windows Pharo user, but right now I need to find a Windows machine to assist. cheers -ben
-- Cheers Cyril Ferlicot
It depends, ahah. To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key. With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key. As a windows user it became an other language to know, there is no absolute rule for shortcuts Franck From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 To: nicolaihess@web.de; pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl? Esteban On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote: 2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>: I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things : - To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually. this changed just recently 15612ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut. (pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list)) - Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text) I will continue to find this kind of thing Cheers, Franck From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test Hi, I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621 basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform). cheers, Esteban
But exactly those (the windows key, alt F4 and alt tab) are defined by the operating systems and never reach pharo :) El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:25 p. m., Franck Warlouzet < franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> escribió:
It depends, ahah. To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key. With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key.
As a windows user it became an other language to know, there is no absolute rule for shortcuts
Franck
------------------------------ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 To: nicolaihess@web.de; pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>:
I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually.
this changed just recently 15612 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15612> ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut.
(pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
- Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck ------------------------------ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
ok⦠but we are using what? alt or ctrl? my question is: the menus should show (for example, to save the image): Ctrl + Shift + S or Alt + Shift + S and since we are there: What happens with linux? Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote:
It depends, ahah. To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key. With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key.
As a windows user it became an other language to know, there is no absolute rule for shortcuts
Franck
From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 To: nicolaihess@web.de; pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>> wrote:
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr <mailto:franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>>: I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually.
this changed just recently 15612 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15612> ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut.
(pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
- Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck From: estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621>
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
Always Ctrl. That's how usual application shortcuts work on windows and unix. Ctrl. El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:28 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano < estebanlm@gmail.com> escribió:
ok⦠but we are using what? alt or ctrl? my question is: the menus should show (for example, to save the image):
Ctrl + Shift + S
or
Alt + Shift + S
and since we are there: What happens with linux?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote:
It depends, ahah. To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key. With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key.
As a windows user it became an other language to know, there is no absolute rule for shortcuts
Franck
------------------------------ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 To: nicolaihess@web.de; pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>:
I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually.
this changed just recently 15612 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15612> ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut.
(pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
- Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck ------------------------------ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
Yes ctrl is more usual to save, copy etc. alt seems to be used to manipulate windows. After using emacs for years, I cannot be disturbed by strange shortcuts anyway From: guillermopolito@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 18:30:25 +0000 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test Always Ctrl. That's how usual application shortcuts work on windows and unix. Ctrl. El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:28 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> escribió: ok⦠but we are using what?alt or ctrl?my question is: the menus should show (for example, to save the image): Ctrl + Shift + S or Alt + Shift + S and since we are there: What happens with linux? Esteban On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote: It depends, ahah. To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key. With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key. As a windows user it became an other language to know, there is no absolute rule for shortcuts Franck From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 To: nicolaihess@web.de; pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl? Esteban On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote: 2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>: I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things : - To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually. this changed just recently 15612ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut. (pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list)) - Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text) I will continue to find this kind of thing Cheers, Franck From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test Hi, I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621 basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform). cheers, Esteban
ok, I fixed the issue⦠should be showing âCtrlâ now, and not âAltâ. Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:37, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote:
Yes ctrl is more usual to save, copy etc. alt seems to be used to manipulate windows. After using emacs for years, I cannot be disturbed by strange shortcuts anyway
From: guillermopolito@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 18:30:25 +0000 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Always Ctrl. That's how usual application shortcuts work on windows and unix. Ctrl.
El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:28 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> escribió: ok⦠but we are using what? alt or ctrl? my question is: the menus should show (for example, to save the image):
Ctrl + Shift + S
or
Alt + Shift + S
and since we are there: What happens with linux?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr <mailto:franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>> wrote:
It depends, ahah. To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key. With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key.
As a windows user it became an other language to know, there is no absolute rule for shortcuts
Franck
From: estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 To: nicolaihess@web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>; pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>> wrote:
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr <mailto:franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>>: I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually.
this changed just recently 15612 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15612> ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut.
(pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
- Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck From: estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621>
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
but now there is a problem in glamour, because it is using Alt and not Ctrl⦠thatâs another problem, and has to be solved with another slice (bah, a configuration now) :) Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:41, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> wrote:
ok, I fixed the issue⦠should be showing âCtrlâ now, and not âAltâ.
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:37, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr <mailto:franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>> wrote:
Yes ctrl is more usual to save, copy etc. alt seems to be used to manipulate windows. After using emacs for years, I cannot be disturbed by strange shortcuts anyway
From: guillermopolito@gmail.com <mailto:guillermopolito@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 18:30:25 +0000 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Always Ctrl. That's how usual application shortcuts work on windows and unix. Ctrl.
El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:28 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com>> escribió: ok⦠but we are using what? alt or ctrl? my question is: the menus should show (for example, to save the image):
Ctrl + Shift + S
or
Alt + Shift + S
and since we are there: What happens with linux?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr <mailto:franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>> wrote:
It depends, ahah. To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key. With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key.
As a windows user it became an other language to know, there is no absolute rule for shortcuts
Franck
From: estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 To: nicolaihess@web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>; pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de <mailto:nicolaihess@web.de>> wrote:
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr <mailto:franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>>: I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually.
this changed just recently 15612 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15612> ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut.
(pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
- Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck From: estebanlm@gmail.com <mailto:estebanlm@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org> Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621>
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
Yes it does. Franck From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:41:13 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test ok, I fixed the issue⦠should be showing âCtrlâ now, and not âAltâ. Esteban On 28 May 2015, at 20:37, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote:Yes ctrl is more usual to save, copy etc. alt seems to be used to manipulate windows. After using emacs for years, I cannot be disturbed by strange shortcuts anyway From: guillermopolito@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 18:30:25 +0000 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test Always Ctrl. That's how usual application shortcuts work on windows and unix. Ctrl. El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:28 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> escribió: ok⦠but we are using what?alt or ctrl?my question is: the menus should show (for example, to save the image): Ctrl + Shift + S or Alt + Shift + S and since we are there: What happens with linux? Esteban On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote: It depends, ahah. To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key. With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key. As a windows user it became an other language to know, there is no absolute rule for shortcuts Franck From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 To: nicolaihess@web.de; pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl? Esteban On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote: 2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>: I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things : - To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually. this changed just recently 15612ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut. (pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list)) - Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text) I will continue to find this kind of thing Cheers, Franck From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test Hi, I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue: https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621 basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform). cheers, Esteban
Glamour for now doesn't have the same system of Shortcuts as Pharo. I already opened an Issue about that. And for the ctrl + o + w and ctrl + w it's not a problem with windows/linux shortcut because we already had cmd + o + w and cmd + w on Mac an nobody complained about it. The use of ctrl is just a way to unify shortcuts because for now it's a little "everyone does what he want". And I don't think someone want to create and maintain 1 system of shortcuts for windows, on system for linux, on system for mac. On 28 May 2015 at 20:48, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote:
Yes it does.
Franck
________________________________ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:41:13 +0200
To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
ok, I fixed the issue⦠should be showing âCtrlâ now, and not âAltâ.
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:37, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote:
Yes ctrl is more usual to save, copy etc. alt seems to be used to manipulate windows. After using emacs for years, I cannot be disturbed by strange shortcuts anyway
________________________________ From: guillermopolito@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 18:30:25 +0000 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Always Ctrl. That's how usual application shortcuts work on windows and unix. Ctrl.
El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:28 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> escribió:
ok⦠but we are using what? alt or ctrl? my question is: the menus should show (for example, to save the image):
Ctrl + Shift + S
or
Alt + Shift + S
and since we are there: What happens with linux?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote:
It depends, ahah. To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key. With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key.
As a windows user it became an other language to know, there is no absolute rule for shortcuts
Franck
________________________________ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 To: nicolaihess@web.de; pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>:
I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually.
this changed just recently 15612 ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut.
(pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
- Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck ________________________________ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
-- Cheers Cyril Ferlicot
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:30 AM, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito@gmail.com> wrote:
Always Ctrl. That's how usual application shortcuts work on windows and unix. Ctrl.
+1
El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:28 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm@gmail.com> escribió:
ok⦠but we are using what? alt or ctrl? my question is: the menus should show (for example, to save the image):
Ctrl + Shift + S
or
Alt + Shift + S
and since we are there: What happens with linux?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote:
It depends, ahah. To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key.
This confuses the issue. From Pharo's perspective, the windows-key does not exist. I really believe the windows-key should *not* be considered a meta-key, and some call it the super-key.
With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key.
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 2:23 AM, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
Currently, on Windows, the keymapping framework knows only two modifiers "ctrl" and "command" the windows key "alt" maps to "command"
From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 To: nicolaihess@web.de; pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr>:
I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually.
this changed just recently 15612 ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut.
(pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
- Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck ________________________________ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
2015-05-28 20:30 GMT+02:00 Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito@gmail.com>:
Always Ctrl. That's how usual application shortcuts work on windows and unix. Ctrl.
If so, then this is an important issue: 15541 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15541> windows vm does not distinguish between ctrl+a and ctrl+home if we want to remove the shortcuts that using alt and ctrl and use ctrl only on windows, this needs to be fixed. Otherwise you can not assign ctrl+a to select all ctrl+d to doIt because it currently maps ctrl+a -> "Home" and ctrl+d -> "End"
El jue., 28 de may. de 2015 a la(s) 8:28 p. m., Esteban Lorenzano < estebanlm@gmail.com> escribió:
ok⦠but we are using what? alt or ctrl? my question is: the menus should show (for example, to save the image):
Ctrl + Shift + S
or
Alt + Shift + S
and since we are there: What happens with linux?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:25, Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> wrote:
It depends, ahah. To copy/paste it is ctrl, but to quit a window it is alt F4, to switch between windows it is alt + tab ... But there is also a meta key, the windows key. With a mac keyboard for example, the cmd key does this meta key.
As a windows user it became an other language to know, there is no absolute rule for shortcuts
Franck
------------------------------ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 20:16:49 +0200 To: nicolaihess@web.de; pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Iâm lost now. Which one is the âmetaâ key in windows? Alt or Ctrl?
Esteban
On 28 May 2015, at 20:04, Nicolai Hess <nicolaihess@web.de> wrote:
2015-05-28 19:47 GMT+02:00 Franck Warlouzet <franck.warlouzet@hotmail.fr> :
I am a windows user and I noticed a couple of strange things :
- To open a transcript, or a browser or other, it is written alt + O + T, or B, or other, but it is ctrl + O + T, or B or other actually.
this changed just recently 15612 <https://pharo.fogbugz.com/default.asp?15612> ToolShortcutsCategory has hard code shortcut.
(pharo 50071 (I asked Cyril to announce this change on the mailing list))
- Do it in a playground is alt + d or ctrl + d, but in Nautilus it is only alt + d (ctrl + d seems to go to the end of the text)
I will continue to find this kind of thing
Cheers,
Franck ------------------------------ From: estebanlm@gmail.com Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 19:15:05 +0200 To: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-dev] I need a windows user and a linux user to test
Hi,
I need win/linux users (and why not, other mac users than me) to test this issue:
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/15621
basically, it normalises all menu shortcut output⦠in a long but clear way (and compatible with the platform).
cheers, Esteban
participants (6)
-
Ben Coman -
Cyril Ferlicot -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Franck Warlouzet -
Guillermo Polito -
Nicolai Hess