Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So I had to see for myself. I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher. That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused to open (presumably, they just crash). Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong? -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
The launcher is broken for me as well. On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 8:40 PM, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So I had to see for myself.
I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher.
That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused to open (presumably, they just crash).
Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
It is broken. I always use the ZeroConf CLI through wget or curl. Cheers, Hernan El dom., 17 jun. 2018 a las 0:40, horrido (<horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>) escribió:
Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So I had to see for myself.
I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher.
That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused to open (presumably, they just crash).
Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
I tried downloading the standalone version of Pharo 6.1 in a fresh folder, and everything seems fine. I then tried the Pharo Launcher, which I have never used before. I installed the template for Pharo 6.1 (stable) and tried to launch it. The launcher window closed, and nothing happened. The Task Manager confirms that it is not running invisibly in the background. So for me the launcher is not working, though the standalone version is fine. I am using Windows 10 with all recent updates, on a 4GB machine with Intel Core i3 processor. Hope this helps Peter Kenny -----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org> On Behalf Of Hernán Morales Durand Sent: 17 June 2018 05:50 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken? It is broken. I always use the ZeroConf CLI through wget or curl. Cheers, Hernan El dom., 17 jun. 2018 a las 0:40, horrido (<horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>) escribió:
Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So I had to see for myself.
I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher.
That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused to open (presumably, they just crash).
Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Try running the launcher as administrator. It may not help, but I recall this was a problem not long ago. On June 17, 2018 9:08:50 AM PDT, PBKResearch <peter@pbkresearch.co.uk> wrote:
I tried downloading the standalone version of Pharo 6.1 in a fresh folder, and everything seems fine.
I then tried the Pharo Launcher, which I have never used before. I installed the template for Pharo 6.1 (stable) and tried to launch it. The launcher window closed, and nothing happened. The Task Manager confirms that it is not running invisibly in the background. So for me the launcher is not working, though the standalone version is fine.
I am using Windows 10 with all recent updates, on a 4GB machine with Intel Core i3 processor.
Hope this helps
Peter Kenny
-----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org> On Behalf Of Hernán Morales Durand Sent: 17 June 2018 05:50 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?
It is broken. I always use the ZeroConf CLI through wget or curl.
Cheers,
Hernan El dom., 17 jun. 2018 a las 0:40, horrido (<horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>) escribió:
Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So I had to see for myself.
I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher.
That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly
broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused to open (presumably, they just crash).
Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Tried âRun as administratorâ â same result. Also tried to uninstall launcher, both by double-clicking âuninstall.exeâ and via Windows settings menu. Nothing happens. It really is broken. Peter Kenny From: Richard Sargent <rsargent@5x5.on.ca> Sent: 17 June 2018 17:42 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>; PBKResearch <peter@pbkresearch.co.uk>; 'Any question about pharo is welcome' <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken? Try running the launcher as administrator. It may not help, but I recall this was a problem not long ago. On June 17, 2018 9:08:50 AM PDT, PBKResearch <peter@pbkresearch.co.uk <mailto:peter@pbkresearch.co.uk> > wrote: I tried downloading the standalone version of Pharo 6.1 in a fresh folder, and everything seems fine. I then tried the Pharo Launcher, which I have never used before. I installed the template for Pharo 6.1 (stable) and tried to launch it. The launcher window closed, and nothing happened. The Task Manager confirms that it is not running invisibly in the background. So for me the launcher is not working, though the standalone version is fine. I am using Windows 10 with all recent updates, on a 4GB machine with Intel Core i3 processor. Hope this helps Peter Kenny -----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org> > On Behalf Of Hernán Morales Durand Sent: 17 June 2018 05:50 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org <mailto:pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken? It is broken. I always use the ZeroConf CLI through wget or curl. Cheers, Hernan El dom., 17 jun. 2018 a las 0:40, horrido (<horrido.hobbies@gmail.com <mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> >) escribió: Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So I had to see for myself. I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher. That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused to open (presumably, they just crash). Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong? -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Install for the msi on the CI. https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/ On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 7:02 PM PBKResearch <peter@pbkresearch.co.uk> wrote:
Tried âRun as administratorâ â same result. Also tried to uninstall launcher, both by double-clicking âuninstall.exeâ and via Windows settings menu. Nothing happens. It really is broken.
Peter Kenny
*From:* Richard Sargent <rsargent@5x5.on.ca> *Sent:* 17 June 2018 17:42 *To:* Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org>; PBKResearch <peter@pbkresearch.co.uk>; 'Any question about pharo is welcome' <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> *Subject:* Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?
Try running the launcher as administrator. It may not help, but I recall this was a problem not long ago.
On June 17, 2018 9:08:50 AM PDT, PBKResearch <peter@pbkresearch.co.uk> wrote:
I tried downloading the standalone version of Pharo 6.1 in a fresh folder, and everything seems fine.
I then tried the Pharo Launcher, which I have never used before. I installed the template for Pharo 6.1 (stable) and tried to launch it. The launcher window closed, and nothing happened. The Task Manager confirms that it is not running invisibly in the background. So for me the launcher is not working, though the standalone version is fine.
I am using Windows 10 with all recent updates, on a 4GB machine with Intel Core i3 processor.
Hope this helps
Peter Kenny
-----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users <pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org> On Behalf Of Hernán Morales Durand Sent: 17 June 2018 05:50 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] Windows installation broken?
It is broken. I always use the ZeroConf CLI through wget or curl.
Cheers,
Hernan El dom., 17 jun. 2018 a las 0:40, horrido (<horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>) escribió:
Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So I had to see for myself.
I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher.
That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused to open (presumably, they just crash).
Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
I have a challenge for you: try to uninstall it :) Look at this thread for Win10 workarounds: https://twitter.com/smalltalkdev/status/978973863332798464 If you do not like workarounds, stay with standalone downloads (or zeroconf for Linux). pf
Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So I had to see for myself.
I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher.
That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused to open (presumably, they just crash).
Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding edge is the wrong one in files. The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really improving. That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works. so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher This is the one you want: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/ For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages. Phil On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 7:17 PM Petr Fischer <petr.fischer@me.com> wrote:
I have a challenge for you: try to uninstall it :)
Look at this thread for Win10 workarounds: https://twitter.com/smalltalkdev/status/978973863332798464
If you do not like workarounds, stay with standalone downloads (or zeroconf for Linux).
pf
Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So I had to see for myself.
I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher.
That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused to open (presumably, they just crash).
Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken" and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance. On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM, phil@highoctane.be <phil@highoctane.be> wrote:
The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding edge is the wrong one in files. The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really improving.
That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci- jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
This is the one you want:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
Phil
On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 7:17 PM Petr Fischer <petr.fischer@me.com> wrote:
I have a challenge for you: try to uninstall it :)
Look at this thread for Win10 workarounds: https://twitter.com/smalltalkdev/status/978973863332798464
If you do not like workarounds, stay with standalone downloads (or zeroconf for Linux).
pf
Someone told me that they had difficulties installing Pharo under Windows. So I had to see for myself.
I booted my Mac mini into Windows 7 Ultimate (using Boot Camp), downloaded and installed Pharo Launcher.
That person was indeed correct. The Windows version of Pharo is badly broken. I created images for Pharo 5.0, 6.1, and 7.0, and all three refused to open (presumably, they just crash).
Am I missing something? What am I doing wrong?
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye. Travis Ayres wrote
I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken" and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
phil@
<
phil@
> wrote:
The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding edge is the wrong one in files. The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really improving.
That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci- jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
This is the one you want:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
Phil
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find).
I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation.
The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm. Herby
Travis Ayres wrote
I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken" and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
phil@
<
phil@
> wrote:
The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding edge is the wrong one in files. The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really improving.
That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci- jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
This is the one you want:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
Phil
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision
Thatâs a bit provocative - I think the launcher is pretty good, and helps ensure people get correct versions of things as well as feel more comfortable checking out newer Pharoâs (like 7) or other projects. Iâll admit I've blown hot and cold on it over the last few years - but Iâve come back to it, as it is a nice tool - we just need to rally around and fix it on Windows - and ideally ensure its got some tests to show if its broken. Possibly we could make the download page a bit clearer? But thatâs a simple Bug report. I actually admire the drive to push things on - and now is the time to rally around together as weâve had a lot of changes that need stabilising so that exciting things like documenter can hit main stream as well. Tim
On 18 Jun 2018, at 14:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <herby@mailbox.sk> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
Herby
Travis Ayres wrote
I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken" and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM, phil@ < phil@ > wrote:
The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding edge is the wrong one in files. The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really improving.
That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci- jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
This is the one you want:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
Phil -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <herby@mailbox.sk> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers who can fix Windows problems. The 'first contact for people who don't know Pharo' on Windows is really hard for an IDE. And although I am not daily using the Launcher myself, I too believe it is a really good tool for many users. It just needs fixing and maintenance, like everything out there that wants to be successful in our ever changing world.
Herby
Travis Ayres wrote
I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken" and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM, phil@ < phil@ > wrote:
The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding edge is the wrong one in files. The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really improving.
That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci- jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
This is the one you want:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
Phil -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using? I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux has about 2%. Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <
herby@
> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers who can fix Windows problems.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Most are using macOS (which can be considered more or less homogeneous since most mac users do update to recent versions at no cost). Many people are using Linux too, both with UI and for servers. But since there are lots of Linux distributions, supporting a large portion of them is lots of work. I would say it is fair to say Ubuntu is the leading platform here. It feels as if there are less Windows users in our community, and the Windows world is more fragmented over different versions. People really underestimate how hard it is to support all these platforms with all their quirks. And of course, every individual user complains loudly when it is not working for them.
On 18 Jun 2018, at 16:16, horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com> wrote:
Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux has about 2%.
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <
herby@
> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers who can fix Windows problems.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>:
Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux has about 2%.
Your mixing users and developers. I donât have numbers but Iâm pretty sure if you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share. For squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform. Norbert
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <
herby@
> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers who can fix Windows problems.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Developers are users, and many users are developers. What kind of developers are you counting? Microsoft/Windows/.NET developers represent a huge number, especially in the enterprise market. If these developers are going to explore alternative tools like Java, Ruby, Pharo, Common Lisp, etc., they'll be doing it in Windows. Developers under macOS are mostly focussed on macOS, iOS, Objective-C, and Swift. They are no more predisposed to looking at Pharo than developers under Windows. Is this not perfectly logical? NorbertHartl wrote
Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido <
horrido.hobbies@
>:
Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux has about 2%.
Your mixing users and developers. I donât have numbers but Iâm pretty sure if you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share. For squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform.
Norbert
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <
herby@
> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers who can fix Windows problems.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Am 18.06.2018 um 19:19 schrieb horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>:
Developers are users, and many users are developers.
Ah, Iâm not sure what value this sentence adds. The point is that the market share you were referring to is users that are not developers.
What kind of developers are you counting? Microsoft/Windows/.NET developers represent a huge number, especially in the enterprise market. If these developers are going to explore alternative tools like Java, Ruby, Pharo, Common Lisp, etc., they'll be doing it in Windows.
Developers under macOS are mostly focussed on macOS, iOS, Objective-C, and Swift. They are no more predisposed to looking at Pharo than developers under Windows. Is this not perfectly logical?
Ok, letâs try to other way round. If there are many developers in windows why is the pharo stuff for windows so badly supported? It does indeed mean that either there arenât many or they lack the expertise (or are too lazy) to improve stuff in pharo. And donât tell me you count the windows developers that are driven away from a user program like PharoLauncher that is not working properly. Norbert
NorbertHartl wrote
Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido <
horrido.hobbies@
>:
Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux has about 2%.
Your mixing users and developers. I donât have numbers but Iâm pretty sure if you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share. For squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform.
Norbert
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <
herby@
> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers who can fix Windows problems.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html>
I am developing on Windows and using the launcher. Also on Linux and macOS. In a corp environment, Windows rules. So make it work there if you want any traction. The laucher now works nicely on Windows. But the files are not the right ones on the download page. So fixing that will go a long way. I have been back on using more mainstream tech and well, stuff works as advertised. We are lagging behind on a couple fronts that's what I see. Phil On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 20:04 Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 18.06.2018 um 19:19 schrieb horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>:
Developers are users, and many users are developers.
Ah, Iâm not sure what value this sentence adds. The point is that the market share you were referring to is users that are not developers.
What kind of developers are you counting? Microsoft/Windows/.NET developers represent a huge number, especially in the enterprise market. If these developers are going to explore alternative tools like Java, Ruby, Pharo, Common Lisp, etc., they'll be doing it in Windows.
Developers under macOS are mostly focussed on macOS, iOS, Objective-C, and Swift. They are no more predisposed to looking at Pharo than developers under Windows. Is this not perfectly logical?
Ok, letâs try to other way round. If there are many developers in windows why is the pharo stuff for windows so badly supported? It does indeed mean that either there arenât many or they lack the expertise (or are too lazy) to improve stuff in pharo. And donât tell me you count the windows developers that are driven away from a user program like PharoLauncher that is not working properly.
Norbert
NorbertHartl wrote
Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido <
horrido.hobbies@
>:
Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux has about 2%.
Your mixing users and developers. I donât have numbers but Iâm pretty sure if you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share. For squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform.
Norbert
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <
herby@
> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers who can fix Windows problems.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
yes, we have bad support for windows. Period. we try to improve in that, but is hard and takes time⦠there are lots of small details that needs to be taken care in all fronts (from VM to UI, traversing all layers)⦠but we will get there, one step at a time. And with the help of those in the community with more proximity to the real problem. Esteban
On 18 Jun 2018, at 20:13, phil@highoctane.be wrote:
I am developing on Windows and using the launcher.
Also on Linux and macOS.
In a corp environment, Windows rules.
So make it work there if you want any traction.
The laucher now works nicely on Windows.
But the files are not the right ones on the download page.
So fixing that will go a long way.
I have been back on using more mainstream tech and well, stuff works as advertised.
We are lagging behind on a couple fronts that's what I see.
Phil
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 20:04 Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name <mailto:norbert@hartl.name>> wrote:
Am 18.06.2018 um 19:19 schrieb horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com <mailto:horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>>:
Developers are users, and many users are developers.
Ah, Iâm not sure what value this sentence adds. The point is that the market share you were referring to is users that are not developers.
What kind of developers are you counting? Microsoft/Windows/.NET developers represent a huge number, especially in the enterprise market. If these developers are going to explore alternative tools like Java, Ruby, Pharo, Common Lisp, etc., they'll be doing it in Windows.
Developers under macOS are mostly focussed on macOS, iOS, Objective-C, and Swift. They are no more predisposed to looking at Pharo than developers under Windows. Is this not perfectly logical?
Ok, letâs try to other way round. If there are many developers in windows why is the pharo stuff for windows so badly supported? It does indeed mean that either there arenât many or they lack the expertise (or are too lazy) to improve stuff in pharo. And donât tell me you count the windows developers that are driven away from a user program like PharoLauncher that is not working properly.
Norbert
NorbertHartl wrote
Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido <
horrido.hobbies@
>:
Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux has about 2%.
Your mixing users and developers. I donât have numbers but Iâm pretty sure if you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share. For squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform.
Norbert
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <
herby@
> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers who can fix Windows problems.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html>
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html <http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html>
"And donât tell me you count the windows developers that are driven away from a user program like PharoLauncher that is not working properly." Why not? On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 11:05 AM Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:
Am 18.06.2018 um 19:19 schrieb horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>:
Developers are users, and many users are developers.
Ah, Iâm not sure what value this sentence adds. The point is that the market share you were referring to is users that are not developers.
What kind of developers are you counting? Microsoft/Windows/.NET developers represent a huge number, especially in the enterprise market. If these developers are going to explore alternative tools like Java, Ruby, Pharo, Common Lisp, etc., they'll be doing it in Windows.
Developers under macOS are mostly focussed on macOS, iOS, Objective-C, and Swift. They are no more predisposed to looking at Pharo than developers under Windows. Is this not perfectly logical?
Ok, letâs try to other way round. If there are many developers in windows why is the pharo stuff for windows so badly supported? It does indeed mean that either there arenât many or they lack the expertise (or are too lazy) to improve stuff in pharo. And donât tell me you count the windows developers that are driven away from a user program like PharoLauncher that is not working properly.
Norbert
NorbertHartl wrote
Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido <
horrido.hobbies@
>:
Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?
I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux has about 2%.
Your mixing users and developers. I donât have numbers but Iâm pretty sure if you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share. For squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform.
Norbert
Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <
herby@
> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially developers who can fix Windows problems.
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <herby@mailbox.sk> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
First, it was MY decision. Iâm pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now. Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and a new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the result will be good. I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better version arrived, but Iâve been told that will happen this week, so I will wait. Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important. Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and unnecessary. Esteban
Herby
Travis Ayres wrote
I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken" and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM, phil@ < phil@ > wrote:
The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding edge is the wrong one in files. The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really improving.
That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci- jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
This is the one you want:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
Phil -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
Esteban Lorenzano wrote on 18. 6. 2018 16:04:
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <herby@mailbox.sk> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
First, it was MY decision.
My apologies to blaming Steph.
Iâm pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now. Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and a new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the result will be good. I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better version arrived, but Iâve been told that will happen this week, so I will wait.
Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important.
Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and unnecessary.
I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows launcher was not working for so long but it is still pushed as the default download option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind of talk helps to get rid of it until working (or make it finally actually work), it is anything but unnecessary. Herby
Esteban
Herby
Travis Ayres wrote
I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken" and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM, phil@ < phil@ > wrote:
The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding edge is the wrong one in files. The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really improving.
That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci- jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
This is the one you want:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
Phil -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
On Jun 18, 2018, at 10:47 AM, Herbert VojÄÃk <herby@mailbox.sk> wrote:
Esteban Lorenzano wrote on 18. 6. 2018 16:04:
please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and unnecessary.
I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows launcher was not working for so long but it is still pushed as the default download option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind of talk helps to get rid of it until working (or make it finally actually work), it is anything but unnecessary.
âSometimes" it seems necessary to be rude. If an insult is the only thing that works, "it is anything but unnecessary." While one can make a case that arrogant, rude behavior is occasionally ânecessary," you havenât made it here. To do so you first need to show (1) not just that the problem existed but was reported a long time ago, (2) that other more gentle attempts to push the issue were unsuccessful, (3) that the benefit of the fix outweighs the cost of the damage you are doing to the community, and (4) that you are uniquely qualified to make that judgment. You have not satisfied any of those requirements. Is this the way you treat your family? Are you managing a software team using this approach? Or do you limit this sort of behavior to on-line communities? James Foster
Hi Herbert, I too invite you to reconsider your language. Please stick to arguments. This is a public forum and its communication hygiene depends on everyoneâs behavior. Now, tackling your point: in this specific case, even your argument is incorrect. Nobody is forcing you to do anything. Pharo 7 is a development version and this is expected to have glitches from time to time. While this is inconvenient, pushing new things is the only way to obtain the necessary feedback. If you prefer stability, you are welcome to work with 6.1. Cheers, Tudor
On Jun 18, 2018, at 4:47 PM, Herbert VojÄÃk <herby@mailbox.sk> wrote:
Esteban Lorenzano wrote on 18. 6. 2018 16:04:
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <herby@mailbox.sk> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find). I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation. The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm. First, it was MY decision.
My apologies to blaming Steph.
Iâm pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now. Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and a new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the result will be good. I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better version arrived, but Iâve been told that will happen this week, so I will wait. Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important. Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and unnecessary.
I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows launcher was not working for so long but it is still pushed as the default download option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind of talk helps to get rid of it until working (or make it finally actually work), it is anything but unnecessary.
Herby
Esteban
Herby
Travis Ayres wrote
I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken" and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM, phil@ < phil@ > wrote:
The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding edge is the wrong one in files. The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really improving.
That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci- jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
This is the one you want:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
Phil -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "Beauty is where we see it."
On 18/06/18 09:47, Herbert VojÄÃk wrote:
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
First, it was MY decision.
My apologies to blaming Steph.
Iâm pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now. Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and a new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the result will be good. I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better version arrived, but Iâve been told that will happen this week, so I will wait.
Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important.
Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and unnecessary.
I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows launcher was not working for so long but it is still pushed as the default download option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind of talk helps to get rid of it until working (or make it finally actually work), it is anything but unnecessary.
I don't see how this "Macho Programmer Culture" mixing genitalia size with community behavior and admin choices is necessary. But I see why, for sure, non-(white)-males feel so unwelcome in developers communities when some members feels such "necessity" of addressing others with such language and when pointed to that, just reinforce their choices. Best, Offray
What does not talking like an asshole have to do with being white and male? ...seriously? On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 11:31 AM Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas < offray.luna@mutabit.com> wrote:
On 18/06/18 09:47, Herbert VojÄÃk wrote:
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
First, it was MY decision.
My apologies to blaming Steph.
Iâm pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now. Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and a new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the result will be good. I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better version arrived, but Iâve been told that will happen this week, so I will wait.
Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important.
Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and unnecessary.
I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows launcher was not working for so long but it is still pushed as the default download option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind of talk helps to get rid of it until working (or make it finally actually work), it is anything but unnecessary.
I don't see how this "Macho Programmer Culture" mixing genitalia size with community behavior and admin choices is necessary. But I see why, for sure, non-(white)-males feel so unwelcome in developers communities when some members feels such "necessity" of addressing others with such language and when pointed to that, just reinforce their choices.
Best,
Offray
Guys - letâs STOP this and focus on getting the download page changed. A knife fight within our midst is not going to help us make things better. Iâm sure Steph would prefer actions to fix code over in-fighting. The best way to make amends would be a nice code fix for the community. Tim Sent from my iPhone
On 18 Jun 2018, at 19:39, Travis Ayres <trayres@gmail.com> wrote:
What does not talking like an asshole have to do with being white and male?
...seriously?
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 11:31 AM Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray.luna@mutabit.com> wrote:
On 18/06/18 09:47, Herbert VojÄÃk wrote:
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
First, it was MY decision.
My apologies to blaming Steph.
Iâm pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now. Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and a new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the result will be good. I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better version arrived, but Iâve been told that will happen this week, so I will wait.
Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important.
Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and unnecessary.
I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows launcher was not working for so long but it is still pushed as the default download option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind of talk helps to get rid of it until working (or make it finally actually work), it is anything but unnecessary.
I don't see how this "Macho Programmer Culture" mixing genitalia size with community behavior and admin choices is necessary. But I see why, for sure, non-(white)-males feel so unwelcome in developers communities when some members feels such "necessity" of addressing others with such language and when pointed to that, just reinforce their choices.
Best,
Offray
Nothing, that's precisely my point! So we don't need to talk about balls size, with the implicit gender assumptions about courage and the "Macho Programmer" way of argumentation, that is toxic in *other* communities for minorities (non white, non cisgender, non male) which usually repeals them for participation. So, yes, lets focus on a better installing Pharo experience on Windows. Cheers, Offray On 18/06/18 13:39, Travis Ayres wrote:
What does not talking like an asshole have to do with being white and male?
...seriously?
On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 11:31 AM Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas <offray.luna@mutabit.com <mailto:offray.luna@mutabit.com>> wrote:
On 18/06/18 09:47, Herbert VojÄÃk wrote:
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
First, it was MY decision.
My apologies to blaming Steph.
Iâm pushing launcher as the default download for Pharo since year now. Do I am happy with it not working on windows right now? Of course not. But pushing it also in windows has already forced us to fix some bugs there and a new version of the launcher (and a better Pharo on windows) and at the result will be good. I was going to suspend the launcher as the default download until a better version arrived, but Iâve been told that will happen this week, so I will wait.
Second, we have a lot of bottlenecks, but is true this is important.
Third, please restrain your self to talk like that in the future. Is rude and unnecessary.
I won't. Sometimes it seems this kind of talk is needed. Windows launcher was not working for so long but it is still pushed as the default download option, because "higher goals" I presume. If this kind of talk helps to get rid of it until working (or make it finally actually work), it is anything but unnecessary.
I don't see how this "Macho Programmer Culture" mixing genitalia size with community behavior and admin choices is necessary. But I see why, for sure, non-(white)-males feel so unwelcome in developers communities when some members feels such "necessity" of addressing others with such language and when pointed to that, just reinforce their choices.
Best,
Offray
On 18 June 2018 at 21:39, Herbert VojÄÃk <herby@mailbox.sk> wrote:
horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds (undocumented or hard to find).
I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care that newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care about Pharo's reputation.
The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.
Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert to working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.
Herby
I've been using PharoLauncher for years jumping between Linux & Windows, and it has worked great. Its not PharoLauncher itself, but limitations of the NSIS installer that was used and how that interacted poorly with some environments e.g. admin versus non-admin accounts. The meta-problem is that PharoLauncher worked great for its few users who had compatible environments, but problems remained submerged because it lacked exposure to broad enough environments to unearth such problems. A chicken/egg scenario was limiting broader use of PharoLauncher, and it would continue to languish with biting the bullet to get more users - and more reports. The challenge is providing enough resource priority to deal with issues quickly so not to annoy users too much. I'm very glad PharoLauncher is being promoted as it is, however it may be worth considering that it is for "managing multiple images" and very-new users probably aren't immediately concerned with that. Very-new users are concerned with getting something up as quick and easy as possible, and PharoLauncher does add a few extra steps. Maybe the top of the downloads page could have the zip downloads tagged something like "Taste Test Install" and also include a copy of PBE in those zips. cheers -ben
Travis Ayres wrote
I wonder how many people tried Pharo, thought "Oh this is totally broken" and are never going to give it a second (or third) chance.
On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 11:26 AM,
phil@
<
phil@
>
wrote:
The current website shows the wrong link, the installer for the bleeding
edge is the wrong one in files. The situation on the Windows front is very very bad and not really improving.
That being said, the installer on the CI is the right one and works.
so, steal the installer from here: https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci- jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher
This is the one you want:
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-ci-jenkins2/job/PharoLauncher/
For having the latest lastet everything, go to the launcher settings, get into the devmode and open monticello and load the latest packages.
Phil
-- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html
participants (16)
-
Ben Coman -
Esteban Lorenzano -
Herbert VojÄÃk -
Hernán Morales Durand -
horrido -
James Foster -
Norbert Hartl -
Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas -
PBKResearch -
Petr Fischer -
phil＠highoctane.be -
Richard Sargent -
Sven Van Caekenberghe -
Tim Mackinnon -
Travis Ayres -
Tudor Girba