we try to improve in that, but is hard and takes time�� there are lots of small details that needs to be taken care in all fronts (from VM to UI, traversing all layers)�� but we will get there, one step at a time. And with the help of those in the community with more proximity to the real problem.

Esteban

On 18 Jun 2018, at 20:13, phil@highoctane.be wrote:

I am developing on Windows and using the launcher.

Also on Linux and macOS.

In a corp environment, Windows rules.

So make it work there if you want any traction.

The laucher now works nicely on Windows.

But the files are not the right ones on the download page.

So fixing that will go a long way.

I have been back on using more mainstream tech and well, stuff works as advertised.

We are lagging behind on a couple fronts that's what I see.

Phil

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 20:04 Norbert Hartl <norbert@hartl.name> wrote:

Am 18.06.2018 um 19:19 schrieb horrido <horrido.hobbies@gmail.com>:

Developers are users, and many users are developers.

Ah, I��m not sure what value this sentence adds. The point is that the market share you were referring to is users that are not developers.

What kind of developers are you counting? Microsoft/Windows/.NET developers
represent a huge number, especially in the enterprise market. If these
developers are going to explore alternative tools like Java, Ruby, Pharo,
Common Lisp, etc., they'll be doing it in Windows.

Developers under macOS are mostly focussed on macOS, iOS, Objective-C, and
Swift. They are no more predisposed to looking at Pharo than developers
under Windows. Is this not perfectly logical?

Ok, let��s try to other way round. If there are many developers in windows why is the pharo stuff for windows so badly supported? It does indeed mean that either there aren��t many or they lack the expertise (or are too lazy) to improve stuff in pharo. And don��t tell me you count the windows developers that are driven away from a user program like PharoLauncher that is not working properly.

Norbert

NorbertHartl wrote
Am 18.06.2018 um 16:16 schrieb horrido <

horrido.hobbies@

>:

Lack of enough Windows users? What platform are most Pharoers using?

I'm using macOS, but this platform has only about 12% market share. Linux
has about 2%.

Your mixing users and developers. I don��t have numbers but I��m pretty sure
if you count developers windows does not have that big of a market share.
For squeak/pharo especially I guess Mac was always the preferred platform.

Norbert

Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote
On 18 Jun 2018, at 15:39, Herbert Voj��k <

herby@

> wrote:

horrido wrote on 18. 6. 2018 0:04:
This is what concerns me. I don't care that there are workarounds
(undocumented or hard to find).
I care that Windows is a most popular development platform. I care
that
newcomers to Pharo easily find what they need to get started. I care
about
Pharo's reputation.
The last thing Pharo needs is a black eye.

Do you have enough balls to call out Steph for his obviously wrong
decision to push Launcher down the users' throats and make him revert
to
working installers / zips? Cause AFAICT there's the bottleneck atm.

The problem is the lack of enough Windows users and especially
developers
who can fix Windows problems.

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