- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Could we keep Pharo-dev for Pharo-dev?

by Hilaire

Indeed, as far as it is about announcing, it makes sense to announce it on pharo-users only. Hilaire Le 15/01/2015 10:07, kilon alios a Ã©crit : > does that mean that announcing new pharo tools that are included in the > standard pharo distribution should go to pharo-users ? > -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Making objects persistent

by Paul DeBruicker

Here is another approach: http://forum.world.st/Best-practices-available-for-Seaside-Gemstone-tp27210… sergio_101 wrote > I am building a seaside application, and am in the process of building my > models and unit tests. > > I have a few objects that build up my data by creating objects. > > when i run the data creation methods, everything is fine. immediately > afterward, since these objects to belong to anything, they are cleaned up > by garbage collection. > > is there a way to create these objects so that they persist? if this is > possible, how would you go about deleting such a tenacious object? > > thanks! -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Making-objects-persistent-tp4799638p4799776.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Stackoverflow, was: [Pharo-dev] Could we keep Pharo-dev for Pharo-dev?

by Martin BÃ¤hr

Excerpts from Daniel Lyons's message of 2015-01-15 19:47:22 +0100: > The Prolog section does pretty well by having a small but significant > community that watch the Prolog tag like hawks. something like rss2email could be used to forward stackoverflow questions to the list, so that they'll be noticed by more people to be answered. > The big advantage of Stack Overflow is that googling your question finds > it there with an actual answer. yes, when i search for a problem on google, stackoverflow search results are my favourite choices to look at. greetings, martin. -- eKita - the online platform for your entire academic life -- chief engineer eKita.co pike programmer pike.lysator.liu.se caudium.net societyserver.org secretary beijinglug.org mentor fossasia.org foresight developer foresightlinux.org realss.com unix sysadmin Martin BÃ¤hr working in china http://societyserver.org/mbaehr/

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Stackoverflow, was: [Pharo-dev] Could we keep Pharo-dev for Pharo-dev?

by Daniel Lyons

kilon alios writes: > Yeah StackOverflow has serious issues with moderation but still that does > not change the fact that is a popular site where tons of developers go > there to find answers to their questions. I asked my own questions on SO > about Pharo and so far I have not been disappointed. The Prolog section does pretty well by having a small but significant community that watch the Prolog tag like hawks. There are still "drive-by moderation" incidents but by and large it isn't a huge problem. There also is no general Prolog mailing list around which to organize, so a substantial community is able to organize just around Stack Overflow instead. The big advantage of Stack Overflow is that googling your question finds it there with an actual answer. Googling your question about Pharo often lands you in the middle of a conversation on the mailing list, replicated on some random site without enough context or useful navigation, while the actual answers may be buried deep in some thread. Or the question never got answered, but people went on to talk about different things, but Google sees the question in the subject repeated many times and assumes this is a useful page. Stack Overflow doesn't let this kind of thing happen. Things tend to move so quickly with Pharo that an answer on the mailing list from 2011 is often practically useless today. That would be a problem with old Pharo questions on Stack Overflow as well, except that Stack Overflow doesn't make a point of drawing your attention to the age of the answer. It's good and bad; good that things are moving quickly and improving, bad in that a lot of that knowledge has a short shelf-life. This phenomenon seems to be shared with Smalltalk, very few books go into much detail about what's in the image, and the ones that do are all greatly outdated because what's in the image changes fast. Ruby and Javascript are also like this. Prolog is almost ideal for Stack Overflow because everybody who shows up is asking the same questions (taking the same classes at the same universities, probably), and the system hasn't changed much in the last thirty years. Stack Overflow is good at fossilizing knowledge, but not every system benefits from that. -- Daniel Lyons

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Stackoverflow, was: [Pharo-dev] Could we keep Pharo-dev for Pharo-dev?

by kilon alios

Yeah StackOverflow has serious issues with moderation but still that does not change the fact that is a popular site where tons of developers go there to find answers to their questions. I asked my own questions on SO about Pharo and so far I have not been disappointed. On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 4:54 PM, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > Serge wrote: > >Shall we move the discussion to pharo-users instead ? > > Yep. > > >I was not aware of that. Do you have recent examples about this behaviour > ? > > The last closed question was fine. Flagging it just gets clueless > moderator replies: > "declined - The question really needs to be fleshed out. > Including the code for the rectangle morph would help a lot." > > An earlier one was > Command pattern in smalltalk [closed] (you might not be able to see that > as it was deleted). > > Of the 10 most popular smalltalk questions, at least 8 would be closed > using current moderation standards. > > There is not 1 question from last year amongst the 50 most popular > questions. > In the top 100 there are 2, and the most popular one is about Objective C. > The most popular question from last year gets 7 votes. That means there are > not enough smalltalkers on SO to be able to reopen questions. > > The gaming system basically values popularity of answers, > not correctness. It reinforces majority choices. > > Phil wrote: > >Traffic increases as a sign of traction/engagement and we want to silence > things. Yeah sure. > > > >Put a tag in the title and filter on that. > > Some channels are more effective than others. > Stackoverflow is not an effective channel. > > Ignoring it is not smart. > Answer questions and point people to the > mailing lists. > > Stephan > > >

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming proficient in Pharo

by kilon alios

Thank you , it means great deal to me to help people appreciate what excites me about Pharo and the debugger is No1 reason for me and I suspect for the majority of Pharo developers too. I actually have my own questions too that I will try to answer with my next video, these videos are an opportunity for me to test my knowledge. The Debugger is a huge chapter and there is a lot of technomagic you can do with it. On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:09 PM, nacho <0800nacho(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Master kilon, > thank you very much. This is an excellent videcast. > As always with your videos a lot of questions arise after watching them! > I really appreciate you taking the time to put this togheter. > Cheers > nacho > > > > > ----- > Nacho > Smalltalker apprentice. > Buenos Aires, Argentina. > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Becoming-proficient-in-Pharo-tp4799284p4799717.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Notification on GC of an object?

by Henrik Johansen

> On 14 Jan 2015, at 11:29 , Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: > > what if the object stores a reference to itself? then you can access it from the shadow copy? GC notification is triggered *after* objects are removed, so even if that were to work*, it'd be nil at the time the executor got around to being notified. For "about to be" instead of "was just" GC'd, you'd need Ephemerons, not finalization. Removing a class you're an instance of might be a bit fishy as well. (as I understand were to be the case if you only implement #finalize), though it'd be nice with some details why it "didn't work out" for Johan. Working around that would be specifying a custom #executor instead of #finalize, returning an instance of a separate class, with a slot for the class to be removed when triggered. (That executor class would have to implement finalize, of course) Cheers, Henry * The ref would have to be held through a weak array, otherwise the executor would have a strong reference to the object, and it'd never be garbage collected in the first place... Image Roots -> WeakReg -> Executor -> MyObj

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Useful tools?

by Alexandre Bergel

Looks like to be a spamâ¦ Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > On Jan 15, 2015, at 1:57 PM, laura <laura.risani(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > How was it implemented? Were you building it as an additional package for the > system? > How would it support browsability and discoverability? > > I had in mind a wiki-like catalog hosted on the official page composed by: > -A tree of categories (like > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_categories , it doesn't have > to be complete from the start, categories could be added a posteriori when > needed) > -A set of tags (nice add, but prescindible) > -For each included package, a page specifying a set of predefined fields > (description/purpose, owners contact, links to documentation if available ). > > Those familliar with a package could submit it's fileds information, and a > rotating group of volunteers could handle its approval and edting a new page > for it. Or should anyone be able to edit? > > I think hosting it in the official page is best because it would be > indexable by any web search engine , unrestrictedly visible and could be > exported by other tools. > > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Useful-tools-tp4799187p4799760.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Useful tools?

by laura

How was it implemented? Were you building it as an additional package for the system? How would it support browsability and discoverability? I had in mind a wiki-like catalog hosted on the official page composed by: -A tree of categories (like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_categories , it doesn't have to be complete from the start, categories could be added a posteriori when needed) -A set of tags (nice add, but prescindible) -For each included package, a page specifying a set of predefined fields (description/purpose, owners contact, links to documentation if available ). Those familliar with a package could submit it's fileds information, and a rotating group of volunteers could handle its approval and edting a new page for it. Or should anyone be able to edit? I think hosting it in the official page is best because it would be indexable by any web search engine , unrestrictedly visible and could be exported by other tools. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Useful-tools-tp4799187p4799760.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Could we keep Pharo-dev for Pharo-dev?

by Jimmie Houchin

+1 All Pharo discussions have taken place on this mailing for a long time. Even after starting pharo-users, for people who were already longtime readers of this list favored this list for any and all discussions concerning Pharo. It will be a culture shift for longtime Pharo users, lurkers. It will take some effort and some time but it would be worthwhile for the long term health of the community. I think it would be a good thing to start encouraging off pharo-dev topic posts toward pharo-users and begin the culture change. -1 on StackOverflow Every time I search for something I am trying to learn or discover and I find a question exactly matching what I want to know. It it shut down by the moderators. What I want to know is valid. But it doesn't match their limited view of the world so it gets moderated. I continue searching elsewhere because it is still information I need and an answer I want even if SO doesn't find it valid. Ugh! Looking at the Pharo section on SO I find it states that there are 436 messages tagged with Pharo. When I do this search on Google: "closed as" pharo site:stackoverflow.com I get 288 results. closed as off-topic, closed as not constructive, closed as primarily opinion based, closed as too broad, ... Example: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27757766/how-to-wrap-a-morph-into-a-wind… This person asked a question and it was closed. But guess what. I imagine they still really wanted an answer. Even it it doesn't fit SO's format. And mostly (my guess from what I saw) closed by people who are not part of this community. SO they are imposing their community rules on our community. I am not real big on that. I also find SO not as good for building community. Community is very important. Especially for smaller groups like Pharo. I haven't spent a lot of time here in a while. But all of the long time readers will be familiar with who I am. The new readers not yet. I can jump in on this list and read new stuff and am familiar with the players. This is a great asset. I have explored learning F#. One of things I have struggled with is where is the community? Where do I engage in conversation? I love that Pharo has a central location for community. These mailing lists. If I have a question. If I want to have a conversation. I know where to do so. I do not want to see that fragmented into mailing list + whatever forum some other person happens to like for the moment. And you can't have this conversation on SO. Or many others which happen here. Just my opinion and my experience. It is worth what you paid. :) Jimmie On 1/15/2015 1:24 AM, stepharo wrote: > Hi guys > > I will start to be picky about the mails to which I reply or even read. > We should be more disciplined. Pharo-dev should be about Pharo-dev > this is important > for our concentration. > I really like the other discussions but we should have them in > Pharo-users. > I think that it makes sense. > > Stef >

Jan. 15, 2015