- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Sharing data between images

by Johan Fabry

Hi, have a look at Fuel, Itâs included in the image. See http://files.pharo.org/books/enterprisepharo/book/Fuel/Fuel.html <http://files.pharo.org/books/enterprisepharo/book/Fuel/Fuel.html> for more info. > On Nov 29, 2015, at 11:57, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Just wondering what my options are about sharing data between images, should I use Ston ? A database ? something else ? > > I would prefer options that have as few dependencies as possible and something that does not require from my users to install external stuff. > > For now Ston looks like a good option but I am very new to all this so I would welcome any advice from the pharo experts. ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Nov. 29, 2015

Sharing data between images

by Dimitris Chloupis

Just wondering what my options are about sharing data between images, should I use Ston ? A database ? something else ? I would prefer options that have as few dependencies as possible and something that does not require from my users to install external stuff. For now Ston looks like a good option but I am very new to all this so I would welcome any advice from the pharo experts.

Nov. 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo for Data Visualization

by Ben Coman

Interesting stuff Ronie. Hopefully we'll gain a lot in portability with Vulkan. What I find interesting is the use of Standard Portable Intermediate Representation (SPIR) common to Vulkan graphics API and OpenCL compute API. [1] is an interesting article outlining this. [2] indicates a few programming languages will compile direct to SPIR and I wonder if Pharo might be able to do the same? New technologies (SPIR) => new opportunities to draw the curious to Pharo. Wild speculation... be able to debug a shader on a SPIR simulator running inside Pharo. (btw, apparently SPIR is pronounced "spear" not to be confused with our "spur" vm) [2] p39,40 says "Debug information via standardized API calls" and "Khronos encouraging open community of tools e.g. shader debugging" which may provide an opportunity to produce a shader debugging tool for use by individual developers in a corporate environment that constrains their language choice for the main application, but have more flexibility to choice their tools. So potentially once exposed to Pharo we hook some of them. Maybe interesting debugging info could be gathered that could be presented by Roassal. [3] p4 says "SPIR-V is fully set up to support multiple source languages" and "SPIR-V also enables development of new experimental languages" and [4] says "Enable third-party code generation targeting OpenCL platforms without going through OpenCL C." So maybe(?) this makes it easier to get fast computing within Pharo using more of our own tools? [1] http://www.pcper.com/reviews/General-Tech/GDC-15-What-Vulkan-glNext-SPIR-V-… [2] https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/developers/library/2015-sigasia/SIGG… [3] https://www.khronos.org/registry/spir-v/papers/WhitePaper.pdf [4] https://www.khronos.org/faq/spir cheers -ben On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 6:13 AM, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Stef, > > I think that this is important that people can pick different >> ("compatible") driver/framework back-end. >> You see if Woden is only built to work on something that does not run on >> mac or windows then >> it will be limited. > > The problem is not Window or Mac. The problem is Linux. > > We are having some discussion on this with Alex on this. I am going to try > to remove the requirement on that extension by providing a fallback method > for the selection, that does not require that extension. Then I will test > it in my laptop by selecting the Intel driver (My laptop has the integrated > Intel card in the CPU and a dedicated AMD graphics cards). > > However Woden-Roassal relies a lot on hardware instancing support to be > able to draw a lot of dynamic cubes. The alternative is to use a vertex > buffer and index buffer that holds all of the transformed visible geometry > that is updated on each frame in the worst case scenario. In the best case > scenario (static cubes or objects), they are updated only once. This relies > a lot on the CPU because all of the transformations has to be done manually > on the CPU. > > This is not a hardware problem, this is a drivers problem because OpenGL > is huge, complex, unefficient, does not represent the graphics hardware. > The Mesa Open Source guys are not able to keep pace with the extension hell > known as OpenGL. In Ubuntu 14.04 Mesa supports up until OpenGL 3.0 > compatibility profile, and OpenGL 3.1 core profile. The current version of > OpenGL is 4.5. Each version of OpenGL has a different version of GLSL > (OpenGL Shader Language), which makes harder to stick with one reasonable > subset and then support features depending on which hardware you are > running. In contrast, if you are developing for Direct3D in Windows, you > only need to choose between Direct3D 9(Windows XP), 11(Vista I think/7/8), > 12(Windows 10) and thats it. In Direct3D you do not have to deal with > hardware vendor extensions because there are not extensions. > > By using instancing, I have a buffer with the geometry of a single cube or > shape. Then I have another buffer with the transformation and color of each > cube or simple shape. When updating the position, size or color of an > element I only have to change a single entry in this buffer. > > The original Roassal 3D used a draw call per element. This more flexible, > but a lot slower. 20.000 cubes in Roassal3D vs 300.000-600.000 in > Woden-Roassal visibles at the same time. The overhead of a draw call is > produced because some validations are made by the OpenGL driver for each > draw call. > > A draw call per-element is only reasonable when using Direct3D 12(Window), > Metal(iOS, OS X) or Vulkan (Linux, Windows and mobiles) because there are > designed to remove the overhead of draw calls. This is the approach that I > am going to use in Woden 2 via an abstraction layer that I am making in > C/C++ above the graphics API. Currently I have a backend for Direct3D 12 > and OpenGL 4.x (it should be possible to use OpenGL 3.3, but I need to test > it). I made the OpenGL backend because Vulkan has not been released yet. It > is impossible to get the best performance by using the OpenGL backend > because of its design. In theory it should be possible to make a backend > for OpenGL 2.0 and OpenGL 2.0 ES, but it will be really hard to do. And it > will not have a good performance. > > Greetings, > Ronie > > > 2015-11-28 14:41 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > >> Ronie >> >> I think that this is important that people can pick different >> ("compatible") driver/framework back-end. >> You see if Woden is only built to work on something that does not run on >> mac or windows then >> it will be limited. >> >> Stef >> >> Le 25/11/15 00:14, Ronie Salgado a Ã©crit : >> >> >> What do you mean with "modern"? >>> >> By modern I mean a graphics card a with graphics driver that supports at >> least OpenGL 4.x. That Intel HD graphics card is capable of supporting at >> least OpenGL 4.2, but the Open Source Mesa driver gives you support up >> until OpenGL 3.1. Unfortunately, unlike with AMD or NVIDIA graphics cards, >> the open source driver is the official driver. >> >> Woden-Roassal requires integer arithmetic in shaders which is used to >> support the selection of objects. Integer arithmetics in shaders requires >> at least OpenGL 3.3, or the missing extension for which you are receiving >> the error. >> >> It is not required by the Woden-Core api, so you should be able to try >> the following in a workspace: >> >> WDFPSSimpleExample6 new open >> >> My notebook with an HD Graphics 4400 has no problems with all "three.js" >>> demos found here http://threejs.org/. >>> >> Three.js or any WebGL based example is a bad test for that graphics card. >> WebGL is based in OpenGL ES 2.0 which is a subset of OpenGL 2.0. This is a >> very old technology for that graphics card. >> >> Woden will be using Vulkan in the future. According to this Phoronix >> article ( >> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LunarG-Vulkan-AMA) >> Valve has already made a proper Vulkan driver for the Intel graphics cards. >> We only need an official release of the Vulkan spec. >> >> Best regards >> Ronie >> >> 2015-11-24 18:50 GMT-03:00 Volkert <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de>: >> >>> My notebook with an HD Graphics 4400 has no problems with all "three.js" >>> demos found here http://threejs.org/. >>> >>> What do you mean with "modern"? >>> >>> >>> >>> On 24.11.2015 22:25, Ronie Salgado wrote: >>> >>> You need a modern graphics card. Open source graphics drivers are not >>> supported because there are very behind in their implementations of OpenGL. >>> >>> >>> 2015-11-24 17:28 GMT-03:00 Volkert < <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> >>> volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de>: >>> >>>> But not on my linux box .... ubuntu 14.04 :-( >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 24.11.2015 21:03, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>> Woden works in Pharo 5.0 >>>> I have just tried. >>>> >>>> Alexandre >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel <http://www.bergel.eu>http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 24, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Volkert < >>>> <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de>volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Cool ... >>>> >>>> Which Pharo Version? I tried Pharo 4.0 and got this error: >>>> >>>> <edcefcdd.png> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 24.11.2015 12:50, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>> Do we have a tutorial? i found only <http://woden.ronie.cl> >>>> http://woden.ronie.cl. >>>> >>>> What about mouse control and object selection. It that possible? >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes. >>>> >>>> To load Woden: >>>> >>>> Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'Woden'; package: >>>> 'ConfigurationOfWoden'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfWoden) >>>> loadBleedingEdge. >>>> >>>> Try: >>>> =-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-= >>>> v := RWView new. >>>> >>>> 1 to: 100 do: [ :i | >>>> e := RWCube element. >>>> e when: RWMouseButtonDown do: [ :ev | >>>> ev element shape color: WDColor green. >>>> ev element changed. >>>> ]. >>>> v add: e. >>>> ]. >>>> RWXZGridLayout on: v elements. >>>> v addInteraction: RWMouseKeyControl. >>>> v camera position: (WDVector3 x: 0.0 y: 0.0 z: 3.0). >>>> v open >>>> =-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-= >>>> Use the keys A S D W and the moose to navigate. Click on cube to make >>>> them green >>>> >>>> <Mail Attachment.png> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> BW, >>>> Volkert >>>> >>>> On 22.11.2015 21:10, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>> We have also put quite some effort on Woden, a 3d engine for Pharoâ¦ >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 22, 2015, at 2:56 PM, Dimitris Chloupis < >>>> <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> its possible via my Ephestos project, to render to video or real time >>>> but the project is still very much a WIP. Its doable but require some >>>> python knowledge and knowledge of Blender UI and API. I will be making a >>>> true Pharo API for it fairly soon but as you can imagine these things take >>>> time. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:35 PM Volkert < >>>> <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de>volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> >>>> wrote: >>>> Is this possible with Pharo? >>>> >>>> <http://www.asterank.com/3d/>http://www.asterank.com/3d/ >>>> >>>> BW, >>>> Volkert >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >

Nov. 29, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo for Data Visualization

by phil＠highoctane.be

Here is what Ubuntu 14.04 running under VMWare 10 on Windows 8.1 gives (using 3D hardware acceleration): philippeback@ubuntu:~$ /usr/lib/nux/unity_support_test -p OpenGL vendor string: VMware, Inc. OpenGL renderer string: Gallium 0.4 on SVGA3D; build: RELEASE; OpenGL version string: 2.1 Mesa 10.3.2 Not software rendered: yes Not blacklisted: yes GLX fbconfig: yes GLX texture from pixmap: yes GL npot or rect textures: yes GL vertex program: yes GL fragment program: yes GL vertex buffer object: yes GL framebuffer object: yes GL version is 1.4+: yes Unity 3D supported: yes Phl On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 11:13 PM, Ronie Salgado <roniesalg(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Stef, > > I think that this is important that people can pick different >> ("compatible") driver/framework back-end. >> You see if Woden is only built to work on something that does not run on >> mac or windows then >> it will be limited. > > The problem is not Window or Mac. The problem is Linux. > > We are having some discussion on this with Alex on this. I am going to try > to remove the requirement on that extension by providing a fallback method > for the selection, that does not require that extension. Then I will test > it in my laptop by selecting the Intel driver (My laptop has the integrated > Intel card in the CPU and a dedicated AMD graphics cards). > > However Woden-Roassal relies a lot on hardware instancing support to be > able to draw a lot of dynamic cubes. The alternative is to use a vertex > buffer and index buffer that holds all of the transformed visible geometry > that is updated on each frame in the worst case scenario. In the best case > scenario (static cubes or objects), they are updated only once. This relies > a lot on the CPU because all of the transformations has to be done manually > on the CPU. > > This is not a hardware problem, this is a drivers problem because OpenGL > is huge, complex, unefficient, does not represent the graphics hardware. > The Mesa Open Source guys are not able to keep pace with the extension hell > known as OpenGL. In Ubuntu 14.04 Mesa supports up until OpenGL 3.0 > compatibility profile, and OpenGL 3.1 core profile. The current version of > OpenGL is 4.5. Each version of OpenGL has a different version of GLSL > (OpenGL Shader Language), which makes harder to stick with one reasonable > subset and then support features depending on which hardware you are > running. In contrast, if you are developing for Direct3D in Windows, you > only need to choose between Direct3D 9(Windows XP), 11(Vista I think/7/8), > 12(Windows 10) and thats it. In Direct3D you do not have to deal with > hardware vendor extensions because there are not extensions. > > By using instancing, I have a buffer with the geometry of a single cube or > shape. Then I have another buffer with the transformation and color of each > cube or simple shape. When updating the position, size or color of an > element I only have to change a single entry in this buffer. > > The original Roassal 3D used a draw call per element. This more flexible, > but a lot slower. 20.000 cubes in Roassal3D vs 300.000-600.000 in > Woden-Roassal visibles at the same time. The overhead of a draw call is > produced because some validations are made by the OpenGL driver for each > draw call. > > A draw call per-element is only reasonable when using Direct3D 12(Window), > Metal(iOS, OS X) or Vulkan (Linux, Windows and mobiles) because there are > designed to remove the overhead of draw calls. This is the approach that I > am going to use in Woden 2 via an abstraction layer that I am making in > C/C++ above the graphics API. Currently I have a backend for Direct3D 12 > and OpenGL 4.x (it should be possible to use OpenGL 3.3, but I need to test > it). I made the OpenGL backend because Vulkan has not been released yet. It > is impossible to get the best performance by using the OpenGL backend > because of its design. In theory it should be possible to make a backend > for OpenGL 2.0 and OpenGL 2.0 ES, but it will be really hard to do. And it > will not have a good performance. > > Greetings, > Ronie > > > 2015-11-28 14:41 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > >> Ronie >> >> I think that this is important that people can pick different >> ("compatible") driver/framework back-end. >> You see if Woden is only built to work on something that does not run on >> mac or windows then >> it will be limited. >> >> Stef >> >> Le 25/11/15 00:14, Ronie Salgado a Ã©crit : >> >> >> What do you mean with "modern"? >>> >> By modern I mean a graphics card a with graphics driver that supports at >> least OpenGL 4.x. That Intel HD graphics card is capable of supporting at >> least OpenGL 4.2, but the Open Source Mesa driver gives you support up >> until OpenGL 3.1. Unfortunately, unlike with AMD or NVIDIA graphics cards, >> the open source driver is the official driver. >> >> Woden-Roassal requires integer arithmetic in shaders which is used to >> support the selection of objects. Integer arithmetics in shaders requires >> at least OpenGL 3.3, or the missing extension for which you are receiving >> the error. >> >> It is not required by the Woden-Core api, so you should be able to try >> the following in a workspace: >> >> WDFPSSimpleExample6 new open >> >> My notebook with an HD Graphics 4400 has no problems with all "three.js" >>> demos found here http://threejs.org/. >>> >> Three.js or any WebGL based example is a bad test for that graphics card. >> WebGL is based in OpenGL ES 2.0 which is a subset of OpenGL 2.0. This is a >> very old technology for that graphics card. >> >> Woden will be using Vulkan in the future. According to this Phoronix >> article ( >> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LunarG-Vulkan-AMA) >> Valve has already made a proper Vulkan driver for the Intel graphics cards. >> We only need an official release of the Vulkan spec. >> >> Best regards >> Ronie >> >> 2015-11-24 18:50 GMT-03:00 Volkert <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de>: >> >>> My notebook with an HD Graphics 4400 has no problems with all "three.js" >>> demos found here http://threejs.org/. >>> >>> What do you mean with "modern"? >>> >>> >>> >>> On 24.11.2015 22:25, Ronie Salgado wrote: >>> >>> You need a modern graphics card. Open source graphics drivers are not >>> supported because there are very behind in their implementations of OpenGL. >>> >>> >>> 2015-11-24 17:28 GMT-03:00 Volkert < <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> >>> volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de>: >>> >>>> But not on my linux box .... ubuntu 14.04 :-( >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 24.11.2015 21:03, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>> Woden works in Pharo 5.0 >>>> I have just tried. >>>> >>>> Alexandre >>>> -- >>>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>>> Alexandre Bergel <http://www.bergel.eu>http://www.bergel.eu >>>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 24, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Volkert < >>>> <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de>volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Cool ... >>>> >>>> Which Pharo Version? I tried Pharo 4.0 and got this error: >>>> >>>> <edcefcdd.png> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 24.11.2015 12:50, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>> Do we have a tutorial? i found only <http://woden.ronie.cl> >>>> http://woden.ronie.cl. >>>> >>>> What about mouse control and object selection. It that possible? >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes. >>>> >>>> To load Woden: >>>> >>>> Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'Woden'; package: >>>> 'ConfigurationOfWoden'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfWoden) >>>> loadBleedingEdge. >>>> >>>> Try: >>>> =-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-= >>>> v := RWView new. >>>> >>>> 1 to: 100 do: [ :i | >>>> e := RWCube element. >>>> e when: RWMouseButtonDown do: [ :ev | >>>> ev element shape color: WDColor green. >>>> ev element changed. >>>> ]. >>>> v add: e. >>>> ]. >>>> RWXZGridLayout on: v elements. >>>> v addInteraction: RWMouseKeyControl. >>>> v camera position: (WDVector3 x: 0.0 y: 0.0 z: 3.0). >>>> v open >>>> =-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-= >>>> Use the keys A S D W and the moose to navigate. Click on cube to make >>>> them green >>>> >>>> <Mail Attachment.png> >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> BW, >>>> Volkert >>>> >>>> On 22.11.2015 21:10, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>> >>>> We have also put quite some effort on Woden, a 3d engine for Pharoâ¦ >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Alexandre >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 22, 2015, at 2:56 PM, Dimitris Chloupis < >>>> <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com>kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> its possible via my Ephestos project, to render to video or real time >>>> but the project is still very much a WIP. Its doable but require some >>>> python knowledge and knowledge of Blender UI and API. I will be making a >>>> true Pharo API for it fairly soon but as you can imagine these things take >>>> time. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:35 PM Volkert < >>>> <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de>volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> >>>> wrote: >>>> Is this possible with Pharo? >>>> >>>> <http://www.asterank.com/3d/>http://www.asterank.com/3d/ >>>> >>>> BW, >>>> Volkert >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >

Nov. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo for Data Visualization

by Ronie Salgado

Hi Stef, I think that this is important that people can pick different > ("compatible") driver/framework back-end. > You see if Woden is only built to work on something that does not run on > mac or windows then > it will be limited. The problem is not Window or Mac. The problem is Linux. We are having some discussion on this with Alex on this. I am going to try to remove the requirement on that extension by providing a fallback method for the selection, that does not require that extension. Then I will test it in my laptop by selecting the Intel driver (My laptop has the integrated Intel card in the CPU and a dedicated AMD graphics cards). However Woden-Roassal relies a lot on hardware instancing support to be able to draw a lot of dynamic cubes. The alternative is to use a vertex buffer and index buffer that holds all of the transformed visible geometry that is updated on each frame in the worst case scenario. In the best case scenario (static cubes or objects), they are updated only once. This relies a lot on the CPU because all of the transformations has to be done manually on the CPU. This is not a hardware problem, this is a drivers problem because OpenGL is huge, complex, unefficient, does not represent the graphics hardware. The Mesa Open Source guys are not able to keep pace with the extension hell known as OpenGL. In Ubuntu 14.04 Mesa supports up until OpenGL 3.0 compatibility profile, and OpenGL 3.1 core profile. The current version of OpenGL is 4.5. Each version of OpenGL has a different version of GLSL (OpenGL Shader Language), which makes harder to stick with one reasonable subset and then support features depending on which hardware you are running. In contrast, if you are developing for Direct3D in Windows, you only need to choose between Direct3D 9(Windows XP), 11(Vista I think/7/8), 12(Windows 10) and thats it. In Direct3D you do not have to deal with hardware vendor extensions because there are not extensions. By using instancing, I have a buffer with the geometry of a single cube or shape. Then I have another buffer with the transformation and color of each cube or simple shape. When updating the position, size or color of an element I only have to change a single entry in this buffer. The original Roassal 3D used a draw call per element. This more flexible, but a lot slower. 20.000 cubes in Roassal3D vs 300.000-600.000 in Woden-Roassal visibles at the same time. The overhead of a draw call is produced because some validations are made by the OpenGL driver for each draw call. A draw call per-element is only reasonable when using Direct3D 12(Window), Metal(iOS, OS X) or Vulkan (Linux, Windows and mobiles) because there are designed to remove the overhead of draw calls. This is the approach that I am going to use in Woden 2 via an abstraction layer that I am making in C/C++ above the graphics API. Currently I have a backend for Direct3D 12 and OpenGL 4.x (it should be possible to use OpenGL 3.3, but I need to test it). I made the OpenGL backend because Vulkan has not been released yet. It is impossible to get the best performance by using the OpenGL backend because of its design. In theory it should be possible to make a backend for OpenGL 2.0 and OpenGL 2.0 ES, but it will be really hard to do. And it will not have a good performance. Greetings, Ronie 2015-11-28 14:41 GMT-03:00 stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr>: > Ronie > > I think that this is important that people can pick different > ("compatible") driver/framework back-end. > You see if Woden is only built to work on something that does not run on > mac or windows then > it will be limited. > > Stef > > Le 25/11/15 00:14, Ronie Salgado a Ã©crit : > > > What do you mean with "modern"? >> > By modern I mean a graphics card a with graphics driver that supports at > least OpenGL 4.x. That Intel HD graphics card is capable of supporting at > least OpenGL 4.2, but the Open Source Mesa driver gives you support up > until OpenGL 3.1. Unfortunately, unlike with AMD or NVIDIA graphics cards, > the open source driver is the official driver. > > Woden-Roassal requires integer arithmetic in shaders which is used to > support the selection of objects. Integer arithmetics in shaders requires > at least OpenGL 3.3, or the missing extension for which you are receiving > the error. > > It is not required by the Woden-Core api, so you should be able to try the > following in a workspace: > > WDFPSSimpleExample6 new open > > My notebook with an HD Graphics 4400 has no problems with all "three.js" >> demos found here http://threejs.org/. >> > Three.js or any WebGL based example is a bad test for that graphics card. > WebGL is based in OpenGL ES 2.0 which is a subset of OpenGL 2.0. This is a > very old technology for that graphics card. > > Woden will be using Vulkan in the future. According to this Phoronix > article ( > http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LunarG-Vulkan-AMA) > Valve has already made a proper Vulkan driver for the Intel graphics cards. > We only need an official release of the Vulkan spec. > > Best regards > Ronie > > 2015-11-24 18:50 GMT-03:00 Volkert <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de>: > >> My notebook with an HD Graphics 4400 has no problems with all "three.js" >> demos found here http://threejs.org/. >> >> What do you mean with "modern"? >> >> >> >> On 24.11.2015 22:25, Ronie Salgado wrote: >> >> You need a modern graphics card. Open source graphics drivers are not >> supported because there are very behind in their implementations of OpenGL. >> >> >> 2015-11-24 17:28 GMT-03:00 Volkert < <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> >> volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de>: >> >>> But not on my linux box .... ubuntu 14.04 :-( >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 24.11.2015 21:03, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>> >>> Woden works in Pharo 5.0 >>> I have just tried. >>> >>> Alexandre >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel <http://www.bergel.eu>http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Nov 24, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Volkert < <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> >>> volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> wrote: >>> >>> Cool ... >>> >>> Which Pharo Version? I tried Pharo 4.0 and got this error: >>> >>> <edcefcdd.png> >>> >>> >>> On 24.11.2015 12:50, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>> >>> Do we have a tutorial? i found only <http://woden.ronie.cl> >>> http://woden.ronie.cl. >>> >>> What about mouse control and object selection. It that possible? >>> >>> >>> Yes. >>> >>> To load Woden: >>> >>> Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'Woden'; package: >>> 'ConfigurationOfWoden'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfWoden) >>> loadBleedingEdge. >>> >>> Try: >>> =-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-= >>> v := RWView new. >>> >>> 1 to: 100 do: [ :i | >>> e := RWCube element. >>> e when: RWMouseButtonDown do: [ :ev | >>> ev element shape color: WDColor green. >>> ev element changed. >>> ]. >>> v add: e. >>> ]. >>> RWXZGridLayout on: v elements. >>> v addInteraction: RWMouseKeyControl. >>> v camera position: (WDVector3 x: 0.0 y: 0.0 z: 3.0). >>> v open >>> =-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-= >>> Use the keys A S D W and the moose to navigate. Click on cube to make >>> them green >>> >>> <Mail Attachment.png> >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> BW, >>> Volkert >>> >>> On 22.11.2015 21:10, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>> >>> We have also put quite some effort on Woden, a 3d engine for Pharoâ¦ >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Alexandre >>> >>> >>> On Nov 22, 2015, at 2:56 PM, Dimitris Chloupis < <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> >>> kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> its possible via my Ephestos project, to render to video or real time >>> but the project is still very much a WIP. Its doable but require some >>> python knowledge and knowledge of Blender UI and API. I will be making a >>> true Pharo API for it fairly soon but as you can imagine these things take >>> time. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:35 PM Volkert < >>> <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de>volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de> wrote: >>> Is this possible with Pharo? >>> >>> <http://www.asterank.com/3d/>http://www.asterank.com/3d/ >>> >>> BW, >>> Volkert >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

Nov. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] [Pharo5] Semantic Warnings as icons in the editor

by Tudor Girba

Very nice! Doru > On Nov 28, 2015, at 11:01 PM, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hi, > > One result of Fridayâs Pharo Sprint in Chile: Use the nice icons of the new text editor > to display some of the semantic errors nicely (instead of breaking flow with a intrusive dialog): > > This was done by Johan based on the prototype Miguel did in September: > > 1) unused temps: > > <unused.png> > > (the âdrag the crosshairâr is an artefact of the snapshot tool) > > 2) temps used that are not initialised: > > <uninit.png> > > > In a next step, we need to integrate that with the QA toolâ¦ no need to have this reported > twice. > > What is nice is that this simplified the Compiler: instead of having an Exception and raising > it, we now just annotate the AST: > > unusedVariable: variableNode > > variableNode propertyAt: #semanticWarning put: 'unused variableâ > > (this is very simple for now, with a node just being able to have one kind of semanticWarning). > > SemanticWarningIconStyler is what adds the icon. It has 4 methods with one line each. > > Marcus > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Value is always contextual."

Nov. 28, 2015

[Pharo5] Semantic Warnings as icons in the editor

by Marcus Denker

Hi, One result of Fridayâs Pharo Sprint in Chile: Use the nice icons of the new text editor to display some of the semantic errors nicely (instead of breaking flow with a intrusive dialog): This was done by Johan based on the prototype Miguel did in September: 1) unused temps: (the âdrag the crosshairâr is an artefact of the snapshot tool) 2) temps used that are not initialised: In a next step, we need to integrate that with the QA toolâ¦ no need to have this reported twice. What is nice is that this simplified the Compiler: instead of having an Exception and raising it, we now just annotate the AST: unusedVariable: variableNode variableNode propertyAt: #semanticWarning put: 'unused variableâ (this is very simple for now, with a node just being able to have one kind of semanticWarning). SemanticWarningIconStyler is what adds the icon. It has 4 methods with one line each. Marcus

Nov. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo for Data Visualization

by stepharo

Ronie I think that this is important that people can pick different ("compatible") driver/framework back-end. You see if Woden is only built to work on something that does not run on mac or windows then it will be limited. Stef Le 25/11/15 00:14, Ronie Salgado a Ã©crit : > > What do you mean with "modern"? > > By modern I mean a graphics card a with graphics driver that supports > at least OpenGL 4.x. That Intel HD graphics card is capable of > supporting at least OpenGL 4.2, but the Open Source Mesa driver gives > you support up until OpenGL 3.1. Unfortunately, unlike with AMD or > NVIDIA graphics cards, the open source driver is the official driver. > > Woden-Roassal requires integer arithmetic in shaders which is used to > support the selection of objects. Integer arithmetics in shaders > requires at least OpenGL 3.3, or the missing extension for which you > are receiving the error. > > It is not required by the Woden-Core api, so you should be able to try > the following in a workspace: > > WDFPSSimpleExample6 new open > > My notebook with an HD Graphics 4400 has no problems with all > "three.js" demos found here http://threejs.org/. > > Three.js or any WebGL based example is a bad test for that graphics > card. WebGL is based in OpenGL ES 2.0 which is a subset of OpenGL 2.0. > This is a very old technology for that graphics card. > > Woden will be using Vulkan in the future. According to this Phoronix > article > (http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=LunarG-Vulkan-AMA) Valve > has already made a proper Vulkan driver for the Intel graphics cards. > We only need an official release of the Vulkan spec. > > Best regards > Ronie > > 2015-11-24 18:50 GMT-03:00 Volkert <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de > <mailto:volkert@komponentenwerkstatt.de>>: > > My notebook with an HD Graphics 4400 has no problems with all > "three.js" demos found here http://threejs.org/. > > What do you mean with "modern"? > > > > On 24.11.2015 22:25, Ronie Salgado wrote: >> You need a modern graphics card. Open source graphics drivers are >> not supported because there are very behind in their >> implementations of OpenGL. >> >> >> 2015-11-24 17:28 GMT-03:00 Volkert >> <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de >> <mailto:volkert@komponentenwerkstatt.de>>: >> >> But not on my linux box .... ubuntu 14.04 :-( >> >> >> >> >> On 24.11.2015 21:03, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>> Woden works in Pharo 5.0 >>> I have just tried. >>> >>> Alexandre >>> -- >>> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >>> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >>> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Nov 24, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Volkert >>>> <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de >>>> <mailto:volkert@komponentenwerkstatt.de>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Cool ... >>>> >>>> Which Pharo Version? I tried Pharo 4.0 and got this error: >>>> >>>> <edcefcdd.png> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 24.11.2015 12:50, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>> Do we have a tutorial? i found only http://woden.ronie.cl. >>>>>> >>>>>> What about mouse control and object selection. It that >>>>>> possible? >>>>> >>>>> Yes. >>>>> >>>>> To load Woden: >>>>> >>>>> Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'Woden'; >>>>> package: 'ConfigurationOfWoden'; load. (Smalltalk at: >>>>> #ConfigurationOfWoden) loadBleedingEdge. >>>>> >>>>> Try: >>>>> =-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-= >>>>> v := RWView new. >>>>> >>>>> 1 to: 100 do: [ :i | >>>>> e := RWCube element. >>>>> e when: RWMouseButtonDown do: [ :ev | >>>>> ev element shape color: WDColor green. >>>>> ev element changed. >>>>> ]. >>>>> v add: e. >>>>> ]. >>>>> RWXZGridLayout on: v elements. >>>>> v addInteraction: RWMouseKeyControl. >>>>> v camera position: (WDVector3 x: 0.0 y: 0.0 z: 3.0). >>>>> v open >>>>> =-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-= >>>>> Use the keys A S D W and the moose to navigate. Click on >>>>> cube to make them green >>>>> >>>>> <Mail Attachment.png> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Alexandre >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> BW, >>>>>> Volkert >>>>>> >>>>>> On 22.11.2015 21:10, Alexandre Bergel wrote: >>>>>>> We have also put quite some effort on Woden, a 3d engine >>>>>>> for Pharoâ¦ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Alexandre >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Nov 22, 2015, at 2:56 PM, Dimitris Chloupis >>>>>>>> <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com <mailto:kilon.alios@gmail.com>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> its possible via my Ephestos project, to render to >>>>>>>> video or real time but the project is still very much a >>>>>>>> WIP. Its doable but require some python knowledge and >>>>>>>> knowledge of Blender UI and API. I will be making a >>>>>>>> true Pharo API for it fairly soon but as you can >>>>>>>> imagine these things take time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:35 PM Volkert >>>>>>>> <volkert(a)komponentenwerkstatt.de >>>>>>>> <mailto:volkert@komponentenwerkstatt.de>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Is this possible with Pharo? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.asterank.com/3d/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> BW, >>>>>>>> Volkert >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > >

Nov. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] breakpoints and watchpoints working

by Marcus Denker

> > > Is there a way to query all breakpoints like a query of senders of #halt? you can search for the senders of #break. But as class Breakpoint has a list of all active breakpoints, we add a browseAll method there easily. > > Any reason for Whatchpoints doesn't work with expressions in the Playground? > The Playground does not yet support suggestions. This should be fixed. > Breakpoints seems to work fine (apart from some problem setting up from the menu method in Nautilus), If you find a repeatable case for that , can you add an issue on the tracker? > but a problem you could be aware is setting a break once in InputEventFetcher>>signalEvent: , and then moving the mouse, the image hangs. > Thanks, we will investigate. The âonceâ breakpoint triggers a recompile before opening the debugger. but of course the devil is in the detailsâ¦ we will check to see what exactly is happening here. Marcus

Nov. 28, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] breakpoints and watchpoints working

by HernÃ¡n Morales Durand

Hello, I have so many questions :) But let's start with a few. 2015-11-27 11:17 GMT-03:00 Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl>: > Hi all, > > Marcus, Miguel Campusano and me have been working the last few weeks on > getting breakpoints and watchpoints working for Pharo 5. Since a few days > we have functionality that works for many cases and that is easily > accessible. Itâs really cool, I urge you to try it out! > > Breakpoints: > In Nautilus in the methods list you can add a breakpoint to a method, as > well as a breakpoint that triggers once, or a breakpoint that takes a > condition. (The last is still a bit complicated. Marcus promised that he > will clean that up :-).) Also in the code pane the suggestions menu allows > you to add a breakpoint to expressions. They will be highlighted in red, > and an icon appears in the gutter. Clicking it removes the breakpoint and > also bringing up the suggestions menu allows you to remove them. > Watchpoints: > Watchpoints are a simple mechanism to log the results of specific > expressions. In the code pane the suggestions menu allows you to set a > watchpoint. The expression is highlighted in red and in the gutter a green > ball appears. Click it and you will have a simple UI that shows the last > values recorded. (Actually the watchpoint records every execution and never > throws anything away, so this can become a memory hog, be careful.) You can > remove the watchpoint from the UI and from the suggestions menu. > > In our experiments we found both very useful and powerful, try them out > and be sure to tell us if there are any problems > > First, thank you for this feature Johan, Miguel and Marcus. Is there a way to query all breakpoints like a query of senders of #halt? Any reason for Whatchpoints doesn't work with expressions in the Playground? Breakpoints seems to work fine (apart from some problem setting up from the menu method in Nautilus), but a problem you could be aware is setting a break once in InputEventFetcher>>signalEvent: , and then moving the mouse, the image hangs. Cheers HernÃ¡n > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University > of Chile > > >

Nov. 28, 2015