February 2022 - Pharo-users

Changes to class not recorded in change.log?

by Stewart MacLean

Hi, The worst case scenario has just happened - my image is hosed. I've managed to recover a previous set of change/image files (thanks CrashPlan!). Then I've replayed all the intervening changes - however I find that some instance variables that I had defined haven't been reflected in class shape changes. I notice all the changes for the complete change log are for Method, and Do It (image saves) Surely class shape changes should be recorded as well? Is this a bug? Cheers, Stewart Platform Mac Mini Pharo 9.0.0 Build information: Pharo-9.0.0+build.1573.sha.0e09d756fc99383cbb498565200d9e5e9841ce11 (64 Bit)

Feb. 14, 2022

Spec border widths of 0 are showing as lines?

by Stewart MacLean

Hi all, I have set the border widths of SpBoxLayout to 0, but there are still lines showing between the various components. Please see attached. As a work around, I thought to set the color of the border to the background color of each panel, but SpBoxLayout doesn't have a borderColor: method. How do I get borders to not show so that adjacent panels blend? And how do I set the color of borders? I am using SpRoassalPresenters and have tried setting the borderColor against them to no effect. Thanks, Stewart

Feb. 11, 2022

Re: [Pharo-users] Re: What is "Fluid"?

by contactme＠kathe.in

On Thursday, February 10, 2022 15:33 CET, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: Â Â It is a real interesting research question: How an you build Systems that can evolve over a long time ? Systems which evolve over time need to have a very tiny core which is supremely malleable. For one, I would start with a "Forth" and add an object-system to it using the "Metaobject Protocol" along with a Common Lisp like "Condition System". Â Â Forth in the context of the core of an object system is interestingâ¦ someone did in 1979 a Smalltalk and Forth inspired system called âRosetta Smalltalk"Â https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1113572.1113555Â But: the nice thing of evolving a system is that you *always* can show a real, working result. You can have users, including yourselfâ¦ you can find ways of financingÂ your work that is not just promising something for the future. (which you can only do so often before people get sceptical).Â I think being part of the early Squeak community kind of burned for me the âletâs not improve that (relatively) simple thing A, instead wait for <genius X> to finish <amazing Project Z>.Â Imagine instead you would build a feedback-loop *inside* of your system...Â Â Marcus Agree about what you felt within the Squeak community, I was there too around 1999~2000. There were a bunch of geniuses there, but the way I understand it, geniuses produce the initial spark, but you need strong-willed, perseverent people to kindle the project there-after. The reason I was drawn to Pharo is because of what Ducasse and you and others like you have done with the core spark of Smalltalk-80 based Squeak running Morphic. Though, I've always liked the MVC environment more and fell in love with the "Third-Way" project to deliver a full-blown widget-set for MVC developed by a guy called Gartner (I think) from Germany. Â Do you have a pointer?---- Yes, I got the URL after searching through Google a lot of times. :-) His name is Boris Gaertner and he is/was from Germany. https://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/1829.diff?id=19 I couldn't find his webpage though, and I couldn't locate the code of his framework. Maybe you could ask on the Squeak mailing list! Â Can you elaborate on your feedback-loop *inside* the system idea? Especially in the context of Pharo? Â Â So your âSystems which evolve over time need to have a very tiny core which is supremely malleableâ I actually think is very true.. and Pharo clearly is not there yet.(and what that even is supposed to be.. has many answers).Â But what we technical people are the quickly to say âaÂ malleableÂ system needs a very tiny core, so letâs first do thatâ. And abandon what we have.Â Â But if you step back, for the end-âuserâ (that is programmer) it would not change much, it would solve nothing on that level of the problem of howto evolve a platform *and* the systems using it. Which might be even harder to do right than the kernel...Â Another aspect is that âlets build the perfect evolvable systemâ is as impossible as âlets build the perfect systemââ¦ when you are done, yourealise that you could do even better!Â Â Marcus---- Yes, I agree on the point of things just never being done in the world of software. Though, I do tend to think "Common Lisp" is a done language, but their development environments (even commercial ones) leave a lot to be desired. For a moment think from the perspective of art, as one of the greats had mentioned; perfection is achieved when there's nothing more to take away. I think what you and the core team did using the stuff (core Squeak + Morphic) available to you back then without knowledge about Boris Gaertner's work is quite an achievement. But Pharo is really too big, especially when you compare it with a standard Smalltalk-80 system. Maybe the core team "could" consider going along the same path of cleaning-up and simplifying the core Smalltalk system further but instead of working with the bloat of Morphic, instead go with that MVC-based "ThirdWay" framework! In fact, I would wholeheartedly support the core team changing a lot of what it means to be Smalltalk if the end result can be made smaller and more malleable. As an example of a minimalistic and extremely malleable language, take a look at "io"; https://iolanguage.org/ Yes, it's a lot bigger than a Forth, but at least it won't drive normal people to insanity. :-D Just a suggestion, no intention of denigrating the work that has been done till date. Â

Feb. 11, 2022

Re: What am I doing wrong with Spec2 in Pharo 9?

by Robert Briggs

Thanks Kasper Thatâs kind of what I thought.Â I think itâs because I did not enclose the instance in a layout such as SpBoxLayout which meant I couldnât get the reference to the instance in order to execute valueAtCollumn:row:. Iâve implemented a new subclass to verify this and it works. Regards Bob From: Kasper Osterbye <kasper.osterbye(a)gmail.com> Reply to: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Date: Thursday, 10 February 2022 at 14:30 To: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Subject: [Pharo-users] Re: What am I doing wrong with Spec2 in Pharo 9? It might be something else, but the browser to the left is looking at the instance side, whereas the browser to the right is looking at the class side. Hence, your class side method openAttributeEditorOn: do not know about the instance side method valueAtColumn:row: It is hard to guess from your code, but I guess you need to capture the table instance in the double click and pass that to the class side, or implement the openAttributeEditorOn: on the instance side to give access self on the instance side. Best, Kasper On 10 Feb 2022, at 12.27, Robert Briggs via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: I have a subclass of SpTablePresenter which correctly displays a list of items. It is set up to activateOnDoubleClick as I want to open another SpPresenter I have created on the selected table row using the value in the first column to complete the presenter. My SpTablePresenter headed Element Attributes is shown bottom left in the attached screenshot. The class method top right reports that valueAtColumn:row: is sent but not implemented and yet it clearly is implemented by the superclass of my presenter (and I have used the method elsewhere in my project (NB: this method is just an instrument at the moment so that I can check what is happening. Double clicking a table row executes the method openAttributeEditorOn: but the debugger reports instance of my presenter class did not understand valueAtColumn:row: So what am I doing wrong here? Advice please. Regards Bob Briggs <PharoScreenshot.2.png>

Feb. 10, 2022

Re: What is "Fluid"?

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

On 10/02/22 9:33, Marcus Denker wrote: > > So your âSystems which evolve over time need to have a very tiny core > which is supremely malleableâ I actually think is very true.. and > Pharo clearly is not there yet. > (and what that even is supposed to be.. has many answers). > > But what we technical people are the quickly to say > âaÂ malleableÂ system needs a very tiny core, so letâs first do thatâ. > And abandon what we have. > > But if you step back, for the end-âuserâ (that is programmer) it would > not change much, it would solve nothing on that level of the problem > of how > to evolve a platform *and* the systems using it. Which might be even > harder to do right than the kernel... > > Another aspect is that âlets build the perfect evolvable systemâ is as > impossible as âlets build the perfect systemââ¦ when you are done, you > realise that you could do even better! > > Marcus Recently I was seeing some videos abut GToolkit and Cuis and I thought about how both approach to malleability/understandability in different interesting ways: Cuis by providing a small extensible core that gets simpler over time and GToolkit by providing a compelling default user experience that invites to use and query the system in different ways. I think that the ways Smalltalk systems approach malleability (particularly Pharo/Cuis based) can have deep impacts for populations beyond programmers, as showcased in my recent list post about sharing data stories powered by Pharo, that in fact related with Malleable Systems Wiki [1], [1] https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/malleable-systems/doc/trunk/wiki/en/mallea… Cheers, Offray

Feb. 10, 2022

Re: What is "Fluid"?

by Marcus Denker

>>> >>> It is a real interesting research question: How an you build Systems that can evolve over a long time ? >> >> Systems which evolve over time need to have a very tiny core which is supremely malleable. >> For one, I would start with a "Forth" and add an object-system to it using the "Metaobject Protocol" along with a Common Lisp like "Condition System". >> > Forth in the context of the core of an object system is interestingâ¦ someone did in 1979 a Smalltalk and Forth inspired system called âRosetta Smalltalk" > > https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1113572.1113555 <https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/1113572.1113555> > > But: the nice thing of evolving a system is that you *always* can show a real, working result. You can have users, including yourselfâ¦ you can find ways of financing > your work that is not just promising something for the future. (which you can only do so often before people get sceptical). > > I think being part of the early Squeak community kind of burned for me the âletâs not improve that (relatively) simple thing A, instead wait for <genius X> to finish <amazing Project Z>. > > Imagine instead you would build a feedback-loop *inside* of your system... > > > Marcus > > > Agree about what you felt within the Squeak community, I was there too around 1999~2000. > There were a bunch of geniuses there, but the way I understand it, geniuses produce the initial spark, but you need strong-willed, perseverent people to kindle the project there-after. > > The reason I was drawn to Pharo is because of what Ducasse and you and others like you have done with the core spark of Smalltalk-80 based Squeak running Morphic. Though, I've always liked the MVC environment more and fell in love with the "Third-Way" project to deliver a full-blown widget-set for MVC developed by a guy called Gartner (I think) from Germany. > Do you have a pointer? > Can you elaborate on your feedback-loop *inside* the system idea? Especially in the context of Pharo? > So your âSystems which evolve over time need to have a very tiny core which is supremely malleableâ I actually think is very true.. and Pharo clearly is not there yet. (and what that even is supposed to be.. has many answers). But what we technical people are the quickly to say âa malleable system needs a very tiny core, so letâs first do thatâ. And abandon what we have. But if you step back, for the end-âuserâ (that is programmer) it would not change much, it would solve nothing on that level of the problem of how to evolve a platform *and* the systems using it. Which might be even harder to do right than the kernel... Another aspect is that âlets build the perfect evolvable systemâ is as impossible as âlets build the perfect systemââ¦ when you are done, you realise that you could do even better! Marcus

Feb. 10, 2022

Re: What am I doing wrong with Spec2 in Pharo 9?

by Kasper Osterbye

It might be something else, but the browser to the left is looking at the instance side, whereas the browser to the right is looking at the class side. Hence, your class side method openAttributeEditorOn: do not know about the instance side method valueAtColumn:row: It is hard to guess from your code, but I guess you need to capture the table instance in the double click and pass that to the class side, or implement the openAttributeEditorOn: on the instance side to give access self on the instance side. Best, Kasper > On 10 Feb 2022, at 12.27, Robert Briggs via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > I have a subclass of SpTablePresenter which correctly displays a list of items. It is set up to activateOnDoubleClick as I want to open another SpPresenter I have created on the selected table row using the value in the first column to complete the presenter. My SpTablePresenter headed Element Attributes is shown bottom left in the attached screenshot. > > The class method top right reports that valueAtColumn:row: is sent but not implemented and yet it clearly is implemented by the superclass of my presenter (and I have used the method elsewhere in my project (NB: this method is just an instrument at the moment so that I can check what is happening. > > Double clicking a table row executes the method openAttributeEditorOn: but the debugger reports instance of my presenter class did not understand valueAtColumn:row: > > > So what am I doing wrong here? > > Advice please. > > Regards > Bob Briggs > > > > <PharoScreenshot.2.png>

Feb. 10, 2022

Re: Sharing and publishing Pharo powered data stories

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

Hi again, Something happen with the foreground/background colors. So here it comes again. ================ Hi, We are combining Markdeep and STON in a light format to share and publish Pharo powered data stories and visualizations written/crafted in Glamorous Toolkit's Lepiter. In this link you can find a demo of the published output, that, of course can be imported back to Lepiter: https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/malleable-systems/doc/trunk/wiki/en/mallea… And below you can find a preview of this data story. Our light format have some differential values over other popular data stories publishing formats, like Jupyter Notebook: a) Its human and browser readable, in contrast IPynb JSON and Python exports are readable by one, but not the other. b) it only requires (3mb) Fossil + (350K) Markdeep to be stored, versioned, shared and published. Other DVCS, web folders can be used and is a big contrast with complicated and/or oligopolistic support to make a format (Ipynb) web renderable. c) The same published document can be imported back to Lepiter. When a Jupyter document is published as HTML, it can not be imported back from there to Jupyter (I imagine something similar happens with RStudio or OrgMode, but I have not experienced data workflows on the last tools by myself). And here is the respective Nitter/Twitter thread with details and alternative narrative: https://nitter.net/offrayLC/status/1490130769603444742#m <https://nitter.net/offrayLC/status/1490130769603444742#m> Cheers, Offray https://i.imgur.com/GhbaSZc.png On 8/02/22 16:19, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: > > Hi, > > We are combining Markdeep and STON in a light format to share and > publish Pharo powered data stories and visualizations written/crafted > in Glamorous Toolkit's Lepiter. In this link you can find a demo of > the published output, that, of course can be imported back to Lepiter: > > https://mutabit.com/repos.fossil/malleable-systems/doc/trunk/wiki/en/mallea… > > And below you can find a preview of this data story. > > Our light format have some differential values over other popular data > stories publishing formats, like Jupyter Notebook: > > a) Its human and browser readable, in contrast IPynb JSON and Python > exports are readable by one, but not the other. b) it only requires > (3mb) Fossil + (350K) Markdeep to be stored, versioned, shared and > published. Other DVCS, web folders can be used and is a big contrast > with complicated and/or oligopolistic support to make a format (Ipynb) > web renderable. c) The same published document can be imported back to > Lepiter. When a Jupyter document is published as HTML, it can not be > imported back from there to Jupyter (I imagine something similar > happens with RStudio or OrgMode, but I have not experienced data > workflows on the last tools by myself). > > And here is the respective Nitter/Twitter thread with details and > alternative narrative: > https://nitter.net/offrayLC/status/1490130769603444742#m > <https://nitter.net/offrayLC/status/1490130769603444742#m> > > Cheers, > > Offray > > https://i.imgur.com/GhbaSZc.png >

Feb. 10, 2022

internship grant / offre de stage de Master

by Pierre Bommel

Dear all, (see French and Spanish version below) We offer a grant to work on Pharo at Cirad <https://www.cirad.fr/nous-connaitre/unites-de-recherche/savoirs-environneme…> in the SENS research unit (https://umr-sens.fr) So we are looking for a Master student to work for 6 or 8 months on Cormas <https://github.com/cormas/cormas>, a simulation platform (see here for our presentation <https://hackmd.iscpif.fr/GGwvzBFqRASE5zCzlRwArQ?view> at ESUG). The title of this internship is "*Participatory simulation of renewable resource management in hybrid environments*" (see announcement here <https://www.hdigitag.fr/en/digitag-master2-internship-offers/>) We wish to investigate the possibilities offered by new applications related to the detection of physical objects. This detection will then be used for hybrid simulations allowing participants to interact with a model by placing different objects on a game board. It is thus a new hybrid form of games, between computer simulator and role-playing game. This work is part of an original modeling approach called ComMod <https://www.commod.org/en> (for Companion Modeling). This work will require the development of reliable detection methods for physical objects that can then be integrated into a simulator. *Participatory simulation of renewable resource management in hybrid environments* Â Â Â Keywords: Participatory simulation, Computer Vision , Smalltalk, Cormas Â Â Â Duration: 8 months Â Â Â Desired start date: 03/2022 Â Â Â Research Unit: SENS, Cirad Â Â Â Contact: Bommel Pierre â bommel(a)cirad.fr Â Â Â #DigitAg: Axe 2,Axe 6 â Challenge 1,Challenge 2 ,Challenge 6 ,Challenge 7, Challenge 8 Â Â Â *** FranÃ§ais *** Nous disposons d'une bourse pour travailler sur Pharo au Cirad <https://www.cirad.fr/nous-connaitre/unites-de-recherche/savoirs-environneme…> dans l'UR SENS (https://umr-sens.fr) Nous recherchons donc un Ã©tudiant en master pour travailler pendant 6 ou 8 mois sur Cormas <https://github.com/cormas/cormas>, une plateforme de simulation (Voir notrepresentation <https://hackmd.iscpif.fr/GGwvzBFqRASE5zCzlRwArQ?view> Ã ESUG). Le titre de ce stage est "*Simulation participative de la gestion des ressources renouvelables dans des environnements hybrides*" (voir l'annonce ici <https://www.hdigitag.fr/fr/les-offres-de-stage-digitag/>). Nous souhaitons investiguer les possibilitÃ©s offertes par les nouvelles applications liÃ©es Ã la dÃ©tection dâobjets physiques. Cette dÃ©tection servira alors pour des simulations hybrides permettant Ã des participants d'interagir avec un modÃ¨le en plaÃ§ant diffÃ©rents objets sur un plateau de jeu. Il s'agit donc d'une nouvelle forme hybride de jeux, entre simulateur informatique et jeu de rÃ´le. Ce travail s'inscrit dans une dÃ©marche originale de modÃ©lisation dite ComMod <https://www.commod.org/en> (pour ModÃ©lisation d'Accompagnement). Ce travail nÃ©cessitera de mettre au point des mÃ©thodes de dÃ©tection fiables dâobjets physiques qui pourront alors Ãªtre intÃ©grÃ©s dans le simulateur. Â Â Â *** EspaÃ±ol *** Tenemos una beca para trabajar con Pharo en el Cirad <https://www.cirad.fr/nous-connaitre/unites-de-recherche/savoirs-environneme…> en la unidad de investigaciÃ³n SENS (https://umr-sens.fr) AsÃ que estamos buscando un estudiante de Master para trabajar durante 6 u 8 meses en Cormas <https://github.com/cormas/cormas>, una plataforma de simulaciÃ³n (ver aquÃ nuestra presentaciÃ³n <https://hackmd.iscpif.fr/GGwvzBFqRASE5zCzlRwArQ?view> a ESUG). El tÃtulo de esta pasantÃa es "*SimulaciÃ³n participativa de la gestiÃ³n de recursos renovables en entornos hÃbridos*". Queremos investigar las posibilidades que ofrecen las nuevas aplicaciones relacionadas con la detecciÃ³n de objetos fÃsicos. Esta detecciÃ³n se utilizarÃ¡ despuÃ©s para realizar simulaciones hÃbridas que permitan a los participantes interactuar con un modelo colocando diferentes objetos en un tablero de juego. Se trata, pues, de una nueva forma hÃbrida de juegos, entre simulador informÃ¡tico y juego de rol. Este trabajo forma parte de un enfoque original de modelizaciÃ³n llamado ComMod (para ModelaciÃ³n de AcompaÃ±amento). Este trabajo requerirÃ¡ el desarrollo de mÃ©todos fiables de detecciÃ³n de objetos fÃsicos que puedan integrarse en un simulador. Â Â Â Pierre BOMMEL Â Â Â CIRAD - UMR SENS http://umr-sens.fr/

Feb. 10, 2022

What am I doing wrong with Spec2 in Pharo 9?

by Robert Briggs

I haveÂ a subclass of SpTablePresenter which correctly displays a list of items.Â It is set up to activateOnDoubleClick as I want to open another SpPresenter I have created on the selected table row using the value in the first column to complete the presenter.Â My SpTablePresenter headed Element Attributes is shown bottom left in the attached screenshot. The class method top right reports that valueAtColumn:row: is sent but not implemented and yet it clearly is implemented by the superclass of my presenter (and I have used the method elsewhere in my project (NB: this method is just an instrument at the moment so that I can check what is happening. Double clicking a table row executes the method openAttributeEditorOn:Â but the debugger reports instance of my presenter class did not understand valueAtColumn:row: So what am I doing wrong here? Advice please. Regards Bob Briggs

Feb. 10, 2022