February 2020 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo image processing library

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

> On 6 Feb 2020, at 07:10, Kasper Ãsterbye <kasper.osterbye(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Cool! > I like that readme. +100 beautiful ! > Best, > > Kasper > > > On 6 February 2020 at 03.26.05, Pablo Navarro (pablo1n7(a)gmail.com) wrote: > >> Hi everyone >> >> I put available my code for Image Form in GitHub (https://github.com/pablo1n7/ImageForm) This afternoon, I did the operations with kernels :D. >> >> It's not 100% complete, I'm still working on it. I hope you find it useful and any suggestion is welcomed >> >> Best Regards, Pablo. >> El 25 de ene. de 2020 11:33 -0300, Oleksandr Zaitsev <olk.zaytsev(a)gmail.com>, escribiÃ³: >>> Hello Pablo, >>> >>> Is the code of your library available on GitHub? >>> Could you share the link please? >>> >>> Oleks >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

BenoÃ®t, Stop this non-sense, please. For somebody, intelligent, with decades experience in using some Smalltalk implementation, who has been on this list for years, you have a very hard time reading and understanding what is being said, and you know it. The whole reason Pharo exists is to break free from the constraints of other people's ideas of what Smalltalk is and should remain to be. We don't want that, it is a simple as that. We will help and support anybody doing anything with Pharo, as we have always done. In open source, you cannot go some mailing list and tell people what should be done and endlessly discuss about that: just do it yourself. Sven > On 6 Feb 2020, at 10:00, Benoit St-Jean via Pharo-users <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: > > > From: Benoit St-Jean <bstjean(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk" > Date: 6 February 2020 at 10:00:04 GMT+1 > To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org > > > Then I have a question... and I'm not being sarcastic here! > > As Pharo users, are we allowed to suggest ideas from other environments, even other languages or projects? > > If I think we should implement something similar to VisualWork's MemoryPolicy in Pharo, where should I discuss that? > > If I see package XYZ in Python that I think would be worth porting to Pharo, where should I discuss that? > > If there are features in the Atom editor that are worth considering & cool for Pharo, where should I discuss that? > > If I have ideas/places/means to promote Pharo or give it exposure, where should I discuss that? > > If VisualAge has a nice config map to interface MQSeries and I'd like to know if a port to Pharo would interest anyone, where should I discuss that? > > If I want to know if there's any interest to develop a native DB2 database driver, should I discuss it here ? From what I've read, the answer is NO. Do you really think that if I post "hey guys, we should really port that to Pharo" on comp.databases.ibm-db2, it will draw any attention from Pharoers ? This is getting ridiculous! > > I mean, are we limited to only discuss about what's in the Pharo image? Yeah, the Collection hierarchy is cool but are we gonna talk about that for the next 5 years? As a Pharo USER, I am not limited to what's in the image : Pharo interfaces with lots of things on the outside. If we can't discuss about what's outside of the image and that could improve Pharo (library-wise), tell me where I can do so! > > If I understand correctly, we can't talk about anything that is not 100% Pharo on pharo-dev, pharo-users and lse-pharo4pharo, is that it ?!?!?!? What's left for the "outside world" ? > > P.S. I'm not saying that this mailing list should be a catch-all place where we can discuss about baseball, fishing, cars, music, chess, C# and politics. There has to be a way to sometimes discuss about stuff that is "outside" of Pharo but that could help us improve it! > > On 2020-02-06 03:21, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> Then let it phrase it like this: this list is not to talk about the whole Smalltalk universe but this particular implementation. > > -- > ----------------- > BenoÃ®t St-Jean > Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean > Twitter: @BenLeChialeux > Pinterest: benoitstjean > Instagram: Chef_Benito > IRC: lamneth > GitHub: bstjean > Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com > "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein) > > > >

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

by Benoit St-Jean

Then I have a question... and I'm not being sarcastic here! As Pharo users, are we allowed to suggest ideas from other environments, even other languages or projects? If I think we should implement something similar to VisualWork's MemoryPolicy in Pharo, where should I discuss that? If I see package XYZ in Python that I think would be worth porting to Pharo, where should I discuss that? If there are features in the Atom editor that are worth considering & cool for Pharo, where should I discuss that? If I have ideas/places/means to promote Pharo or give it exposure, where should I discuss that? If VisualAge has a nice config map to interface MQSeries and I'd like to know if a port to Pharo would interest anyone, where should I discuss that? If I want to know if there's any interest to develop a native DB2 database driver, should I discuss it here ?Â From what I've read, the answer is NO.Â Do you really think that if I post "hey guys, we should really port that to Pharo" on comp.databases.ibm-db2, it will draw any attention from Pharoers ? This is getting ridiculous! I mean, are we limited to only discuss about what's in the Pharo image? Yeah, the Collection hierarchy is cool but are we gonna talk about that for the next 5 years? As a Pharo USER, I am not limited to what's in the image : Pharo interfaces with lots of things on the outside.Â If we can't discuss about what's outside of the image and that could improve Pharo (library-wise),Â tell me where I can do so! If I understand correctly, we can't talk about anything that is not 100% Pharo on pharo-dev, pharo-users and lse-pharo4pharo, is that it ?!?!?!? What's left for the "outside world" ? P.S. I'm not saying that this mailing list should be a catch-all place where we can discuss about baseball, fishing, cars, music, chess, C# and politics.Â There has to be a way to sometimes discuss about stuff that is "outside" of Pharo but that could help us improve it! On 2020-02-06 03:21, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > Then let it phrase it like this: this list is not to talk about the whole Smalltalk universe but this particular implementation. -- ----------------- BenoÃ®t St-Jean Yahoo! Messenger: bstjean Twitter: @BenLeChialeux Pinterest: benoitstjean Instagram: Chef_Benito IRC: lamneth GitHub: bstjean Blogue: endormitoire.wordpress.com "A standpoint is an intellectual horizon of radius zero". (A. Einstein)

Feb. 6, 2020

R: About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

by Lorenzo

Thanks for mentioning me. I would just like to point out that I made FuzzyWorld in both Pharo and VSE, but since all my applications were in VSE (which I have been using since 1985!) I have brought it to VSE for graphic content and tools I had already developped. As you can see in the first slide of my presentation, FuzzyWorld is an extension of the Smalltalk classes and not of VSE or Pharo; both can use it. Anyway, I am a Pharo member, so I have been surprised for comments on my presentation. If I can express my opinion, this discussion is based on nothing: in my opinion Pharo is Smalltalk; everything else is VAPOR WARE. Lorenzo -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di horrido Inviato: mercoledÃ¬ 5 febbraio 2020 19:51 A: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk" Yes, these are two completely different issues... - Pharo is Smalltalk - you don't want general Smalltalk discussion polluting this forum I get it. But as I point out here <http://forum.world.st/Fuzzy-Thinking-in-Smalltalk-tp5111111p5111191.html> , Pharo is in a unique position and I would hope that the Pharo community is willing to participate in evangelizing Smalltalk. If there is truly another avenue that is as effective, I'm all ears. Sven Van Caekenberghe-2 wrote >> On 5 Feb 2020, at 18:50, horrido < > horrido.hobbies@ > > wrote: >> >> It would be like trying to deny that Clojure, Scheme, and Racket are >> not LISP. Only an imbecile would claim they're not. > > I am pretty sure the mailing lists of Clojure, Scheme or Racket don't > want you to go there to discuss Common Lisp or Emacs' Lisp or to talk > about general lisp revivals. > > Especially, they would not want you tell them what they should or > can't do based on their history. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 8.0 via get.pharo.org

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 6 Feb 2020, at 08:11, Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen(a)fastmail.net> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > it looks like get.pharo.org suffers from some confusion about its own > files. Here's what happens when I try to download the stable VM for > macOS: > > url https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 | bash [8:01:43] > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed > 100 5320 100 5320 0 0 110k 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 112k > Downloading the latest pharoVM: > http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip > replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: new name: replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [{ENTER}] > replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [if [ "$OS] > replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, > [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [" == "win] > ... > > Closer inspection reveals that the script I get from > > https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 > > downloads the zip file > > http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip > > which contains Pharo.app, not the VM to run from the command > line. > > This looks like a bug, but not in Pharo. So... what's the right place to > report such a bug? No, is not a bug, All that is correct :) Esteban > > Cheers, > Konrad. >

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 8.0 via get.pharo.org

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 6 Feb 2020, at 09:31, Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen(a)fastmail.net> wrote: > > Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> writes: > >>> which contains Pharo.app, not the VM to run from the command >>> line. >>> >> This the same thing actually. For MacOS it is a bit cumbersome. You can start the vm with >> >> ./Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo > > OK, so the distribution format has changed from Pharo 7? No it doesnât :) What you are getting looks like an error that happen when you try to execute zeroconf on top of an already existing zeroconf. Can you try it on a clean directory? Esteban > What I got > before is a directory "pharo-vm" containing Pharo.app, plus two > scripts "pharo" and "pharo-ui" that facilitate execution from the > command line. > > If the distribution format has indeed changed, then there's a bug in the > script that unpacks the zip file, and the documentation on > http://get.pharo.org/ is outdated as well. So my question remains the > same: what's the best way to report such bugs? > > Cheers, > Konrad. >

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 8.0 via get.pharo.org

by Konrad Hinsen

Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> writes: >> which contains Pharo.app, not the VM to run from the command >> line. >> > This the same thing actually. For MacOS it is a bit cumbersome. You can start the vm with > > ./Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo OK, so the distribution format has changed from Pharo 7? What I got before is a directory "pharo-vm" containing Pharo.app, plus two scripts "pharo" and "pharo-ui" that facilitate execution from the command line. If the distribution format has indeed changed, then there's a bug in the script that unpacks the zip file, and the documentation on http://get.pharo.org/ is outdated as well. So my question remains the same: what's the best way to report such bugs? Cheers, Konrad.

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

by Esteban Lorenzano

So, Iâm going to say this and then I will close this thread: Regardless what you think about Pharo and its heritage and how it should be called, this is a list to talk about this particular artefact that is Pharo. You can say: There is Smalltalk, and there is Pharo who is a part of it. Thatâs fine. Then let it phrase it like this: this list is not to talk about the whole Smalltalk universe but this particular implementation. In fact, this is a list for "pharo usersâ (hence its name), to let them share experiences and ask for help. And this is why is âoff-topicâ anything that is talking about other stuff. Now, everybody can do as they please (I will not enter on criticising otherâs work here, they can do what they believe is the best). But they cannot do as they please in the house of others. And this is the house of Pharo Users. So, the rules are: we talk about *pharo usage* here. We can off-topic in some way, as long as the off-topic is restricted. And thatâs all. Esteban Ps: again, *is not the point to argue about what you think is Pharo or not*. Please stop discussing that. We (the board) do not care about that. We (the board) decided a lot of time ago that we will take the Smalltalk inheritance in the Alan Kayâs way: we do not do âSmalltalk", we bootstrap something new, that may resemble Smalltalk (whatever that is), that may share a lot of things with Smalltalk (even syntax and some libraries), but it is still other thing. Pps: It was me who said to Horrido âyou are welcome here, as long as your campaign does not eats the whole listâ (word more, word less, this is what I said). Well, now this is eating the whole list, and it has to end. > On 6 Feb 2020, at 00:13, TedVanGaalen <tedvga(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Yes, Esteban, > > maybe I was a bit harsh, in a sense you're right too, > However it becomes blurred then wat Smalltalk really is. > (e.g. I recommend Pharo as Smalltalk to others) > > I would prefer -but who am I- > that all Smalltalk dialects should implement > the ANSI standard as a minimum and at least on > that level stay compatible. > New developments should be built on top of that. > and get incorporated in the ANSI standard at certain points in time. > So that everybody on this planet can work with one Smalltalk. > That makes sense, don't you agree? > > They came very close to that with PLs like COBOL, ANSI C etc. > > Standardization is industrial. No need > to further explain this I guess. > > The f. devil lives in the details, as they say, > and it is exactly those little differences > that makes it very hard to port packages > from one Smalltalk dialect to another. > > In the current situation, that is where everybody wants to > go their own unique way, this has the consequence that > if one Smalltalk dialect disappears (e.g. Squeak, Pharo, > Visualworks, whatever) this would render packages > with often tons of work(e.g. Roassal ?) > worthless because they don't load/work in other Smalltalk > implementations/dialects without rewriting and retesting > the package again. This should not be the case. > > Again, I am impressed by Pharo and really like it. > but for me it goes too far to say that Pharo isn't Smalltalk. > > As a user, I edit classes methods etc in exactly the same > way (syntax) as in most other Smalltalk dialects. > If you would take out the Smalltalk from Pharo all is left > are a few bolts and nuts rendered useless: nothing > to mount it on. > > (Still the differences are currently not that big: > if I can file in st files from Squeak from 2010 and the > only thing I had to change was a datetime property) > (yet another reason I don't use traits is to remain compatible > as much as possible between different Smalltalk implementations) > > my 4 cents. :o) > Regards, thank you. > TedvG > btw > Hard to convince people about this: > Also. nothing should be deprecated. > Old sources should remain compatible. > (Not like in Swift, where I had to rewrite parts of my > apps nearly every year because of deprecation fever) > > > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 8.0 via get.pharo.org

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 06.02.2020 um 08:11 schrieb Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen(a)fastmail.net>: > > Hi everyone, > > it looks like get.pharo.org suffers from some confusion about its own > files. Here's what happens when I try to download the stable VM for > macOS: > > url https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 | bash [8:01:43] > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed > 100 5320 100 5320 0 0 110k 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 112k > Downloading the latest pharoVM: > http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip > replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: new name: replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [{ENTER}] > replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [if [ "$OS] > replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, > [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [" == "win] > ... > > Closer inspection reveals that the script I get from > > https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 > > downloads the zip file > > http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip > > which contains Pharo.app, not the VM to run from the command > line. > This the same thing actually. For MacOS it is a bit cumbersome. You can start the vm with ./Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo A .app in MacOS is just a directory that has .app extension which makes the finde to display as a single file with an icon. Hope this helps, Norbert > This looks like a bug, but not in Pharo. So... what's the right place to > report such a bug? > > Cheers, > Konrad. >

Feb. 6, 2020

Pharo 8.0 via get.pharo.org

by Konrad Hinsen

Hi everyone, it looks like get.pharo.org suffers from some confusion about its own files. Here's what happens when I try to download the stable VM for macOS: url https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 | bash [8:01:43] % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed 100 5320 100 5320 0 0 110k 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 112k Downloading the latest pharoVM: http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: new name: replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [{ENTER}] replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [if [ "$OS] replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [" == "win] ... Closer inspection reveals that the script I get from https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 downloads the zip file http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip which contains Pharo.app, not the VM to run from the command line. This looks like a bug, but not in Pharo. So... what's the right place to report such a bug? Cheers, Konrad.

Feb. 6, 2020