April 2018 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Sean P. DeNigris

EstebanLM wrote > I would like to be able to add âtags" to tools, to be able to say: > Calypso -> a class browser -> some more info Yes! That is what I was trying to get at in the other thread [1], but not explaining very well. The thing is that this should be *the default view* of the system for new users. The left browser pane could have at least three views of the system: - Packages - What we have now - Least generally important (really only matters for modularity when you're adding code) - Projects - What's been proposed because many packages could be collected under one project node - Better than the above, but still falls prey to the problems being mentioned (i.e. WTH is a Seashell/Coral/SandCastle/FishingPole - what are they *for*) - Purpose/Category/Tag - This was the function of the original System categories and what I think Esteban is proposing. Of course in the browser and other tools the arrows would flow differently: 'Browser' -> #(Calypso Nautilus) -> some more info 1. http://forum.world.st/Why-can-t-we-use-in-protocol-for-package-extension-tp… ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by phil＠highoctane.be

A somewhat unique name makes it easier to google for it (like Roassal Pharo, or DeepTraverser Pharo, or Zinc Pharo). These will give us hits that are relevant. Try System Browser, Inspector... And Apple has worked with NSObject and stuff like that without too much trouble (at a much larger scale for whatever XyzKit they released). Ah, yes, they used the "Kit" suffix. Maybe can we have something like that with Pharo. Like SystemBrowserKit ( nah, too Appleish. Let's try SystemBrowserMeccano (longish), or SystemBrowserPack (too bland), or SystemBrowserGear (why not), SystemBrowserRig (this one sounds cool actually)). Now, I am back to liking the current naming. Phil On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 2:43 PM, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: > How many subsystems that do pretty much the same thing exist in Java? Or > Programmable Hyperlinked Pasta? > > Try this: do a set of Moose queries on a largish Pharo subsystem, say > GLORP, then do the same on EclipseLink, Toplink or Hibernate, either with > or without the JPA interfaces. > > Even with the tools in Moose the Java frameworks make little to no sense > compared to GLORP. Neither do the names mean much other than Hibernate, > which itself could be taken n different ways. > > And JavaScript, well, what can you say about a language with prototypes > but no types to proto? > > Most enterprise software is proof positive the Pastafarians are right - > I've seen plenty of flying spaghetti monsters. > > Andrew > > On Sat, 2018-04-14 at 00:31 +1200, Richard O'Keefe wrote: > > I was not talking about additional subsystems *for* Pharo, > but subsystems already *in* Pharo. For example, when I > hover the mouse over "Epicea" in the leftmost browser > panel, there is a pop-up that explains what is otherwise > a rather opaque word. But when I hover the mouse over > "Fuel", nothing happens. "Grease" => pop-up, "Growl", no. > Actually there are three possibilities. The third is that > there's no pop-up but if you click, there is a package > comment. > > > On 14 April 2018 at 00:18, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 2:05 PM, Richard O'Keefe <raoknz(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > There are a lot of subsystems in Pharo, and being a bear of > very little brain, I have a hard time relating Zinc, Calypso, > &c &c to, well, whatever they are. I presume there is > somewhere a list of topic/name/PFX triples for guidance. > Can some kind soul tell me where it is? > > > Until we have mature package manager (similar to Cargo or npm), you have > to use google. > On the bright side, with the move to git(hub), people are much more likely > to actually describe what their project does, and maybe even a bit of > documentation. This was almost non-existent with SmalltalkHub. > > Peter > > >

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by phil＠highoctane.be

I am not complaining about these exchanges, which were interesting indeed. Just that P7 is still in flux and not something I can use in some way for my projects. No problem with that, just that I cannot afford using it in projects for clients, it is too much of a risk. So, I am not testing it as much as I'd like. I have found that the real issues show up with cases I face in such projects. Phil On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Alistair Grant <akgrant0710(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 13 April 2018 at 11:04, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > > > > >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 08:43, phil(a)highoctane.be wrote: > >> > >> I consider Pharo 7 as a great piece of kit but unusable for my current > work. There are many new things to learn in there. When is too much too > much? Also, simplifications are breaking things in unexpected ways (like > the #atEnd thing). > > > > Phil, > > > > Nothing fundamental will break with #atEnd. > > > > What you are reading in pharo-dev is a constructive discussion that (for > me at least) started with the desire to support one very special kind of > stream (stdin in C terms), something 99.99% of Pharo users have never seen, > used or heard of. > > > Completely agree (despite one of my later messages to Sven being > overly grumpy). I've learnt a lot from this exchange. > > Cheers, > Alistair > > > > Zn streams have worked well and as expected for Pharo versions going > back to 3, that won't change. > > >

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] [TechTalk] April 12: GIT with Iceberg

by Marcus Denker

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 15:04, Andrei Stebakov <lispercat(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Can you make the video available online? https://youtu.be/A9H8jsSnBKM > Another question, is there a tutorial on Iceberg? For the updated UI not yet. From the âhow do I commit a PR to Pharoâ perspective, I will do next week: -> an update to the description on the website how to commit to PR -> Do a short video of how to do contribute to Paro7 (as a replacement of the video tutorial I did). Marcus > > On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 03:10 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: > This is today > > 5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00) > > There is a calendar entry to download at: https://association.pharo.org/event-2797068 <https://association.pharo.org/event-2797068> > > > On 10 Apr 2018, at 16:34, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr <mailto:marcus.denker@inria.fr>> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > There next TechTalk will be April 12: GIT with Iceberg > > > > https://association.pharo.org/event-2797068 <https://association.pharo.org/event-2797068> > > > > > > A regular chat about Pharo. Happens on Discord. > > > > The Tech talks are open to both members and non-members! > > > > Topic: GIT with Iceberg. Demo of improved UI > > > > We will send an information to all subscribers some hours before the talk starts. > > > > > >

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] [TechTalk] April 12: GIT with Iceberg

by Sean P. DeNigris

Andrei Stebakov wrote > Can you make the video available online? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9H8jsSnBKM ----- Cheers, Sean -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] [TechTalk] April 12: GIT with Iceberg

by Andrei Stebakov

Can you make the video available online? Another question, is there a tutorial on Iceberg? On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 03:10 Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > This is today > > 5:00 PM - 7:00 PM (UTC+02:00) > > There is a calendar entry to download at: > https://association.pharo.org/event-2797068 > > > On 10 Apr 2018, at 16:34, Marcus Denker <marcus.denker(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > There next TechTalk will be April 12: GIT with Iceberg > > > > https://association.pharo.org/event-2797068 > > > > > > A regular chat about Pharo. Happens on Discord. > > > > The Tech talks are open to both members and non-members! > > > > Topic: GIT with Iceberg. Demo of improved UI > > > > We will send an information to all subscribers some hours before the > talk starts. > > > > > > >

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 14:47, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 13/04/2018 09:39, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: >> >> >>> On 13 Apr 2018, at 14:33, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com >>> <mailto:aglynn42@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> I find NPM as obscure as Pharo, honestly, and VA Smalltalk is worse >>> (wth does abt or sst stand for?). Grunt, Gulp, etc., how do the names >>> relate to what they do? >> >> yesâ¦ but we actually have a problem there. >> I would like to be able to add âtags" to tools, to be able to say: >> >> Calypso -> a class browser -> some more info >> etc. > > > But isn't that what the Catalog currently does? Iâm talking about what is *inside* the image. Esteban > > Of course the catalog is not for a "package" (as in npm, apt, yum, etc). > > Regards, > > -- > Esteban, the other one. :P >

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Andrew Glynn

Agreed, just pointing out that other systems have similar issues, and do because it's not easy to do originally or to fix later on. Â But I'm just a Pharo user, not a Pharo developer. Â I'm leaning on the shoulders of much better developers. It takes time to learn any system. I've spent 21 years programming Java and there's still plenty I don't know. Â I've spent 16 years with Eclipse and the current version bears little resemblance to the original. Â Rebasing all of Eclipse on OSGi was done in an incremental update, Â between 3.3 and 3.4 if I remember correctly. >From the user perspective, at least the changes in Pharo provide more caveats, given they've taken place in full version changes with alpha versions preceding beta and stable versions. AndrewOn Fri, 2018-04-13 at 14:39 +0200, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > > > On 13 Apr 2018, at 14:33, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I find NPM as obscure as Pharo, honestly, and VA Smalltalk is worse > > (wth does abt or sst stand for?). Â Grunt, Gulp, etc., how do the > > names relate to what they do? Â > yesâ¦ but we actually have a problem there. > I would like to be able to add âtags" to tools, to be able to say:Â > > Calypso -> a class browser -> some more info > etc. > > Esteban > > > > > Electron is as obscure as Phobos (although a phobia with web pages > > turned into desktop apps may be appropriate). > > > > Andrew > > > > On Fri, 2018-04-13 at 14:18 +0200, Peter UhnÃ¡k wrote: > > > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 2:05 PM, Richard O'Keefe > > > m> wrote: > > > > There are a lot of subsystems in Pharo, and being a bear of > > > > very little brain, I have a hard time relating Zinc, Calypso, > > > > &c &c to, well, whatever they are.Â I presume there is > > > > somewhere a list of topic/name/PFX triples for guidance. > > > > Can some kind soul tell me where it is? > > > > > > > Until we have mature package manager (similar to Cargo or npm), > > > you have to use google. > > > On the bright side, with the move to git(hub), people are much > > > more likely to actually describe what their project does, and > > > maybe even a bit of documentation. This was almost non-existent > > > with SmalltalkHub. > > > > > > Peter

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Esteban A. Maringolo

On 13/04/2018 09:39, Esteban Lorenzano wrote: > > >> On 13 Apr 2018, at 14:33, Andrew Glynn <aglynn42(a)gmail.com >> <mailto:aglynn42@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> I find NPM as obscure as Pharo, honestly, and VA Smalltalk is worse >> (wth does abt or sst stand for?). Â Grunt, Gulp, etc., how do the names >> relate to what they do? Â > > yesâ¦ but we actually have a problem there. > I would like to be able to add âtags" to tools, to be able to say:Â > > Calypso -> a class browser -> some more info > etc. But isn't that what the Catalog currently does? Of course the catalog is not for a "package" (as in npm, apt, yum, etc). Regards, -- Esteban, the other one. :P

April 13, 2018

Re: [Pharo-users] Where do we go now ?

by Andrew Glynn

How many subsystems that do pretty much the same thing exist in Java? Â Or Programmable Hyperlinked Pasta? Â Try this: Â do a set of Moose queries on a largish Pharo subsystem, say GLORP, then do the same on EclipseLink, Toplink or Hibernate, either with or without the JPA interfaces. Â Even with the tools in Moose the Java frameworks make little to no sense compared to GLORP. Â Neither do the names mean much other than Hibernate, which itself could be taken n different ways. Â And JavaScript, well, what can you say about a language with prototypes but no types to proto? Most enterprise software is proof positive the Pastafarians are right - I've seen plenty of flying spaghetti monsters. AndrewOn Sat, 2018-04-14 at 00:31 +1200, Richard O'Keefe wrote: > I was not talking about additional subsystems *for* Pharo, > but subsystems already *in* Pharo.Â For example, when I > hover the mouse over "Epicea" in the leftmost browser > panel, there is a pop-up that explains what is otherwise > a rather opaque word.Â But when I hover the mouse over > "Fuel", nothing happens.Â "Grease" => pop-up, "Growl", no. > Actually there are three possibilities.Â The third is that > there's no pop-up but if you click, there is a package > comment. > > > On 14 April 2018 at 00:18, Peter UhnÃ¡k <i.uhnak(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 2:05 PM, Richard O'Keefe <raoknz(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > There are a lot of subsystems in Pharo, and being a bear of > > > very little brain, I have a hard time relating Zinc, Calypso, > > > &c &c to, well, whatever they are.Â I presume there is > > > somewhere a list of topic/name/PFX triples for guidance. > > > Can some kind soul tell me where it is? > > > > > Until we have mature package manager (similar to Cargo or npm), you > > have to use google. > > On the bright side, with the move to git(hub), people are much more > > likely to actually describe what their project does, and maybe even > > a bit of documentation. This was almost non-existent with > > SmalltalkHub. > > > > Peter > >

April 13, 2018