December 2015 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] PharoJVM

by Johan Fabry

Just to say that Stephan expressed very eloquently my thoughts ! > On Dec 13, 2015, at 08:41, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > > On 13-12-15 06:10, horrido wrote: >> Rather than view my posts as accusatory, you should view them as trying to >> steer the collective thinking of a large group toward a more promising >> direction...which is exactly what they are. My analysis of the situation is >> objective, *not defamatory*. I see what's wrong with the status quo and I >> look for possible solutions. > > I see you trying to steer without situational awareness. > The great goal is clear, but there are bumps on the road and there is no direct road to Rome. Your analysis of the situation is superficial and not helpful. > > Marketing is most effective if it is aligned with strategy. > I was serious about you having to make those Wardley maps. > It all starts with user needs. Take a look at where new smalltalkers can come from (students, old smalltalkers using something else, software reengineering specialists, people from small languages who want an IDE for it, people dissatisfied with their current large community language, etc), make some persona for them so it gets easier to imagine what their needs might be. Do the same for the people in our community (Researchers, independent developers, small group in a large high-tech company, legacy smalltalk group etc). > > To understand and explain why and when they might be persuaded to use smalltalk, read > Mary Lynn Manns & Linda Rising, Fearless Change, Patterns for introducing new ideas > Geoffrey A. Moore, Crossing the Chasm > and possibly > Mack Hanan & Peter Karp, Competing on Value > > From those user needs, make Wardley maps breaking down user needs in technology and community needs, making them more and more concrete. Identify what we support, where there are gaps and overlap, and what changes to expect. > > Then decide where you can with minimal effort have the most impact and focus your marketing message there, using a positive story. Measure impact, see what changed and repeat. > > Stephan > > > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD and RyCh labs - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Dec. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] PharoJVM

by horrido

That's an *enormous* amount of work!!! No wonder it hasn't been done yet. I did identify one thing: get high school students (i.e., young people) interested in Smalltalk. That's why I tried (and failed) to launch the Canadian Smalltalk Competition. You should understand that I put a LOT of work into this, *a great deal of sweat and tears*. You have no idea. (Just ask David Buck of Simberon.) I'm only one person; I can only do so much by myself. And unfortunately, I'm coming to the end of the line. Stephan Eggermont wrote > On 13-12-15 06:10, horrido wrote: >> Rather than view my posts as accusatory, you should view them as trying >> to >> steer the collective thinking of a large group toward a more promising >> direction...which is exactly what they are. My analysis of the situation >> is >> objective, *not defamatory*. I see what's wrong with the status quo and I >> look for possible solutions. > > I see you trying to steer without situational awareness. > The great goal is clear, but there are bumps on the road and there is no > direct road to Rome. Your analysis of the situation is superficial and > not helpful. > > Marketing is most effective if it is aligned with strategy. > I was serious about you having to make those Wardley maps. > It all starts with user needs. Take a look at where new smalltalkers can > come from (students, old smalltalkers using something else, software > reengineering specialists, people from small languages who want an IDE > for it, people dissatisfied with their current large community language, > etc), make some persona for them so it gets easier to imagine what their > needs might be. Do the same for the people in our community > (Researchers, independent developers, small group in a large high-tech > company, legacy smalltalk group etc). > > To understand and explain why and when they might be persuaded to use > smalltalk, read > Mary Lynn Manns & Linda Rising, Fearless Change, Patterns for > introducing new ideas > Geoffrey A. Moore, Crossing the Chasm > and possibly > Mack Hanan & Peter Karp, Competing on Value > > From those user needs, make Wardley maps breaking down user needs in > technology and community needs, making them more and more concrete. > Identify what we support, where there are gaps and overlap, and what > changes to expect. > > Then decide where you can with minimal effort have the most impact and > focus your marketing message there, using a positive story. Measure > impact, see what changed and repeat. > > Stephan -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoJVM-tp4866633p4866813.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] PharoJVM

by horrido

I /did/ write a Smalltalk tutorial: A Gentle Introduction to Amber <https://medium.com/smalltalk-talk/a-gentle-introduction-to-amber-8c532631e9…> . It's not as if Pharo needs one. I'm prepared to write a Redline tutorial, if and when James Ladd gets around to completing Redline. stepharo wrote > why don't you spend the time to write such mails into > - writing tutorial or > - just improving class comments of the well-known classs (such as > set, dictionary, booleans, strings), > - create videos > you would have already an impact. > Now you are shouting in the desert and people will just put you on their > black list. > > Stef -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoJVM-tp4866633p4866808.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] PharoJVM

by horrido

Okay, the timing of my post was off. Stephan already answered my question about Wardley maps. Good answer, by the way. horrido wrote > Why is this "nonsense"? Are you saying it's not important to make Pharo > applicable to more problem domains? Are you saying that making Pharo > useful to more people in the IT community is a dumb idea? > > What am I missing in terms of situational awareness? Clearly, * > I am clueless * > , because I don't understand what you're getting at with Wardley maps. > > "Strategy means making choices." Are you suggesting that you've made hard > choices? Whatever those choices are, * > the results speak for themselves * > . The IT community at large still ignores Smalltalk. Businesses are > looking to Java and JavaScript and Python and C++ / > before / > they ever look to Pharo. I don't know how you can deny this. I don't know > how you can tell me it's working out well for Pharo. > > Stephan Eggermont wrote >> On 12-12-15 22:45, horrido wrote: >>> Yes, the mentality of Pharo has not escaped my attention. >> ... >> >>> Why would you want to limit the breadth of applicability of a >>> programming >>> language? Especially one that purports to be **general purpose**. >> >> Oh please, can you stop this nonsense? >> >> If you want to learn something about strategy, read the blog >> I posted earlier about, and create some Wardley maps for us. >> Your situational awareness is lacking. >> Strategy means making choices. >> >> Stephan -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoJVM-tp4866633p4866807.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] PharoJVM

by phil＠highoctane.be

Python has some books with animals on the cover. In the good old days, this mattered :-) Phil On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > bingo !!! > +1.000.000.000 > > The problem is that there is so much hype about marketing thats easy to > miss the enormous fact that languages like C, C++, Java and Python are not > as popular as they are even with their big flaws without substance , > without solving some serious problem that requires serious resources . > Foremosts those languages have been evolving for decades , take Python > > and I am NOT talking the language itself I am talking the most popular > python implementation and the oldest , CPython, its 24 years. > > Let me repeat this... > > CPython IS 24 years OLD !!!! > > There is none smalltalk implementation that I am aware of that has been > actively developed for so long even though smalltalk as a language is far > older than that. > > Now imagine where Pharo will be in 24 years.... wow.... it blows my mind > just trying to imagine. > > And by the way Python had ZERO marketing , ZERO!!!! Zero funds, zero .... > no money.... nada..... nothing > > Just one dude working his ass off to make a great language for scripting C > projects. > > So in the end its all hard work, as it should be . > > So back to work improving Pharo :) > > On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 12:17 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> why don't you spend the time to write such mails into >> - writing tutorial or >> - just improving class comments of the well-known classs (such as >> set, dictionary, booleans, strings), >> - create videos >> you would have already an impact. >> Now you are shouting in the desert and people will just put you on their >> black list. >> >> Stef >> >> >>

Dec. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] PharoJVM

by horrido

Why is this "nonsense"? Are you saying it's not important to make Pharo applicable to more problem domains? Are you saying that making Pharo useful to more people in the IT community is a dumb idea? What am I missing in terms of situational awareness? Clearly, *I am clueless*, because I don't understand what you're getting at with Wardley maps. "Strategy means making choices." Are you suggesting that you've made hard choices? Whatever those choices are, *the results speak for themselves*. The IT community at large still ignores Smalltalk. Businesses are looking to Java and JavaScript and Python and C++ /before/ they ever look to Pharo. I don't know how you can deny this. I don't know how you can tell me it's working out well for Pharo. Stephan Eggermont wrote > On 12-12-15 22:45, horrido wrote: >> Yes, the mentality of Pharo has not escaped my attention. > ... > >> Why would you want to limit the breadth of applicability of a programming >> language? Especially one that purports to be **general purpose**. > > Oh please, can you stop this nonsense? > > If you want to learn something about strategy, read the blog > I posted earlier about, and create some Wardley maps for us. > Your situational awareness is lacking. > Strategy means making choices. > > Stephan -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/PharoJVM-tp4866633p4866806.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] NSGA II Genetic algorithm in SmallTalk/Pharo

by Serge Stinckwich

Hi guys, can you consider joining the SciSmalltalk mailing-list for discussing such things ? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/scismalltalk Thank you. On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 1:50 AM, abdelghani ALIDRA <alidrandco(a)yahoo.fr> wrote: > Hi, > > Is there an implementation in Smalltalk/Pharo of the multiObjectives Genetic > Algorithm NSGAII? > I beleive Gustavo implemented a sort of multiobjective genetic algorithm but > I am not sure it was NSGAII. > > Thanks in advance. > > Abdelghani -- Serge Stinckwich UCBN & UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC) Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk http://www.doesnotunderstand.org/

Dec. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] PharoJVM

by Stephan Eggermont

On 13-12-15 06:10, horrido wrote: > Rather than view my posts as accusatory, you should view them as trying to > steer the collective thinking of a large group toward a more promising > direction...which is exactly what they are. My analysis of the situation is > objective, *not defamatory*. I see what's wrong with the status quo and I > look for possible solutions. I see you trying to steer without situational awareness. The great goal is clear, but there are bumps on the road and there is no direct road to Rome. Your analysis of the situation is superficial and not helpful. Marketing is most effective if it is aligned with strategy. I was serious about you having to make those Wardley maps. It all starts with user needs. Take a look at where new smalltalkers can come from (students, old smalltalkers using something else, software reengineering specialists, people from small languages who want an IDE for it, people dissatisfied with their current large community language, etc), make some persona for them so it gets easier to imagine what their needs might be. Do the same for the people in our community (Researchers, independent developers, small group in a large high-tech company, legacy smalltalk group etc). To understand and explain why and when they might be persuaded to use smalltalk, read Mary Lynn Manns & Linda Rising, Fearless Change, Patterns for introducing new ideas Geoffrey A. Moore, Crossing the Chasm and possibly Mack Hanan & Peter Karp, Competing on Value From those user needs, make Wardley maps breaking down user needs in technology and community needs, making them more and more concrete. Identify what we support, where there are gaps and overlap, and what changes to expect. Then decide where you can with minimal effort have the most impact and focus your marketing message there, using a positive story. Measure impact, see what changed and repeat. Stephan

Dec. 13, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] PharoJVM

by Dimitris Chloupis

bingo !!! +1.000.000.000 The problem is that there is so much hype about marketing thats easy to miss the enormous fact that languages like C, C++, Java and Python are not as popular as they are even with their big flaws without substance , without solving some serious problem that requires serious resources . Foremosts those languages have been evolving for decades , take Python and I am NOT talking the language itself I am talking the most popular python implementation and the oldest , CPython, its 24 years. Let me repeat this... CPython IS 24 years OLD !!!! There is none smalltalk implementation that I am aware of that has been actively developed for so long even though smalltalk as a language is far older than that. Now imagine where Pharo will be in 24 years.... wow.... it blows my mind just trying to imagine. And by the way Python had ZERO marketing , ZERO!!!! Zero funds, zero .... no money.... nada..... nothing Just one dude working his ass off to make a great language for scripting C projects. So in the end its all hard work, as it should be . So back to work improving Pharo :) On Sun, Dec 13, 2015 at 12:17 PM stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > why don't you spend the time to write such mails into > - writing tutorial or > - just improving class comments of the well-known classs (such as > set, dictionary, booleans, strings), > - create videos > you would have already an impact. > Now you are shouting in the desert and people will just put you on their > black list. > > Stef > > >

Dec. 13, 2015

Magritte Tutorial [Draft]

by stepharo

Hi guys Here is the ci of the magritte tutorial that I'm revising and collecting material for https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Books/job/Magritte/lastSuccessf… If you want to add a chapter let me know. I will add the ticketCorner and/or conference registration one in the future. Stef

Dec. 13, 2015