December 2015 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] example of stand-alone desktop app

by stepharo

Le 25/12/15 14:41, SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka a Ã©crit : > On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 11:48 +0100, Cyril Ferlicot wrote: > > >> First, be careful with Pharo 5 because this is an alpha. There is high >> chance that some things breake. If you find some bug you can report it >> on pharo's fogbugz (the link is on Pharo website). > OK. No problem. > >> For the deployment you have a different virtual machine for >> OSX/Linux/windows. > That's clear. :-) > >> For now the VM is only 32b, this can create some trouble for Linux >> users but the 64b VM should come soon! :) maybe for Pharo 6? > Pharo-5 is scheduled for the 1Q/2016? Yes Probably march. > >> For now there is not a lot of classic application. I think you can >> take a look at Dr Geo. > That one looks interesting. Thank you for that. > >> If you want to do open source you can use the same method that >> PharoLauncher that open a window in full screen and let a setting for >> developers to be able to get a classic Pharo environment. But the user >> might have acess to the code through GTSpotter or Morph's halos. have a look at the Pharo launcher. In the future we plan to do better for deployment but for now we deploy an image and control the debugger (check UnhandledError) and menu > I plan to do open-source, but would like to hide code and other dev > tools in order not to confus end-users. > >> If you don't want the user to get an acess to the code by any mean you >> have to cut everything by hand for now. (Disable spotter, disable >> halo, disable world menu, disable the debugger...). > OK, it means it's possible...Will explore and/or ask. ;) > > >> I would like to have a way to lock an image directly from Pharo > +1 > > >> Welcome to Pharo and merry Christmas! > Thank you! > > > Sincerely, > Gour >

Dec. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] why Pillar

by stepharo

Le 25/12/15 17:02, SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka a Ã©crit : > Hiya, > > I see that Pharo project has embraced Pillar system for documentation > purposes and my first question was "Why Pillar?" since, iirc, comparison > was made with e.g Markdown which is, obviously, not sufficient for eg. > authoring books, but there are more capable markups with 'standard' > implementations like rst/Sphinx and Asciidoc(tor). > > Then I thought it must be some deeper reason, iow. something suitable to > work more closely with Pharo itself. > > Now I have two questions: > > 1) Can someone answer in more detail "Why Pillar?" and Pillar exists before Markdown. We did pillar syntax back in 2002. > > 2) For some time I was considering whether to settle on using rst or > AsciiDoc for *all* my writings, which means blog posts, my study notes, > preparing books, writing articles etc. We do that with Pillar because we have the control over it and because we have it since long time. The seaside book was fully written in pillar. > > Since I've settled to use Python-powered static-site-generator (Nikola) > along with reStructuredText markup which can call external 'compilers' > to process blog posts written in specific markup, I wonder if it would > be possible to use Pillar markup with it since it seems there is cli for > it? Check Ecstatic (we should do another pass on it). The idea is to use pillar + mustache to generate static web pages. > > > Sincerely, > Gour > >

Dec. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] example of stand-alone desktop app

by SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka

On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 16:01 +0000, Dimitris Chloupis wrote: > I am on holidays to at London for Christmas with no direct access to > my machine. Thanks a lot for your tutorial series and please, enjoy your holidays. ;) > But you can get a very good idea how to do what you want by taking a > look at standalone Pharo apps like Phratch and Dr Geo . Phratch looks awesome, thank you for the reference. > You can also add squeak to your google searches because they have been > several posts about this in the squeak mailing list . Pharo is > incompatible with squeak but it's still a fork of squeak so there is > a lot of common ground.Â OK. > After that you can start removing packages you don't need, Pharo is in > the process of of being modularlized so that is easy to start with a > skeleton image.Â The modularization process is going within V5.0? > If you are in need of a specific Pharo library choosing Cuis which is > also a squeak fork is simple and much lighter than Pharo image. Squeak > , Pharo and Cuis share the same VMs.Â I do not mind the size of the image since most software written in other programming languages is also usually quite bloated. Moreover, it seesm Cuis is not so actively developed as Pharo, so I tend to focus on staying with Pharo. > Las but not least if you are on Windows there has been a thread on our > list on how to make window installers for Pharo apps the easy way. You > may want to google that too, I think Damien made a guide about it .Â Well, I only run Linux (Debian), but in order to produce installer for Windows, I might use Windows under vbox, although there is slight problem - the last license of Windows which I own is for XP. :-) In any case, I'm excited to explore the world of Pharo. ;) Sincerely, Gour --Â One who is not disturbed in mind even amidst the threefoldÂ miseries or elated when there is happiness, and who is freeÂ from attachment, fear and anger, is called a sage of steady mind. http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810 --Â The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment,Â though the taste for sense objects remains. But, ceasingÂ such engagements by experiencing a higher taste,Â he is fixed in consciousness. http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810 --Â The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment,Â though the taste for sense objects remains. But, ceasingÂ such engagements by experiencing a higher taste,Â he is fixed in consciousness. http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810 --Â An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery,Â which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of KuntÄ«,Â such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man doesÂ not delight in them. http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810 -- One must deliver himself with the help of his mind, and not degrade himself. The mind is the friend of the conditioned soul, and his enemy as well. http://www.atmarama.net | Hlapicina (Croatia) | GPG: 52B5C810

Dec. 25, 2015

why Pillar

by SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka

Hiya, I see that Pharo project has embraced Pillar system for documentation purposes and my first question was "Why Pillar?" since, iirc, comparison was made with e.g Markdown which is, obviously, not sufficient for eg. authoring books, but there are more capable markups with 'standard' implementations like rst/Sphinx and Asciidoc(tor). Then I thought it must be some deeper reason, iow. something suitable to work more closely with Pharo itself. Now I have two questions: 1) Can someone answer in more detail "Why Pillar?" and 2) For some time I was considering whether to settle on using rst or AsciiDoc for *all* my writings, which means blog posts, my study notes, preparing books, writing articles etc. Since I've settled to use Python-powered static-site-generator (Nikola) along with reStructuredText markup which can call external 'compilers' to process blog posts written in specific markup, I wonder if it would be possible to use Pillar markup with it since it seems there is cli for it? Sincerely, Gour Â -- When your intelligence has passed out of the dense forest of delusion, you shall become indifferent to all that has been heard and all that is to be heard.

Dec. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] example of stand-alone desktop app

by Dimitris Chloupis

I am on holidays to at London for Christmas with no direct access to my machine. But you can get a very good idea how to do what you want by taking a look at standalone Pharo apps like Phratch and Dr Geo . The good news is that is both very easy and extremely flexible. You can also change the icon of the app and and the name of the Pharo executable to make the user completely unaware officials Pharo existence. You can also add squeak to your google searches because they have been several posts about this in the squeak mailing list . Pharo is incompatible with squeak but it's still a fork of squeak so there is a lot of common ground. After that you can start removing packages you don't need, Pharo is in the process of of being modularlized so that is easy to start with a skeleton image. If you are in need of a specific Pharo library choosing Cuis which is also a squeak fork is simple and much lighter than Pharo image. Squeak , Pharo and Cuis share the same VMs. Las but not least if you are on Windows there has been a thread on our list on how to make window installers for Pharo apps the easy way. You may want to google that too, I think Damien made a guide about it . We can go on and on and on how much Pharo can be customized. I even recently made an auto update functionality for me Pharo project ChronosManager which detects if the github repository has a new release available and downloads it so that the user use always the latest stable release without a need to worry about it or do anything about it ;) On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 at 13:42, SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: > On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 11:48 +0100, Cyril Ferlicot wrote: > > > > First, be careful with Pharo 5 because this is an alpha. There is high > > chance that some things breake. If you find some bug you can report it > > on pharo's fogbugz (the link is on Pharo website). > > OK. No problem. > > > For the deployment you have a different virtual machine for > > OSX/Linux/windows. > > That's clear. :-) > > > For now the VM is only 32b, this can create some trouble for Linux > > users but the 64b VM should come soon! :) maybe for Pharo 6? > > Pharo-5 is scheduled for the 1Q/2016? > > > For now there is not a lot of classic application. I think you can > > take a look at Dr Geo. > > That one looks interesting. Thank you for that. > > > If you want to do open source you can use the same method that > > PharoLauncher that open a window in full screen and let a setting for > > developers to be able to get a classic Pharo environment. But the user > > might have acess to the code through GTSpotter or Morph's halos. > > I plan to do open-source, but would like to hide code and other dev > tools in order not to confus end-users. > > > If you don't want the user to get an acess to the code by any mean you > > have to cut everything by hand for now. (Disable spotter, disable > > halo, disable world menu, disable the debugger...). > > OK, it means it's possible...Will explore and/or ask. ;) > > > > I would like to have a way to lock an image directly from Pharo > > +1 > > > > Welcome to Pharo and merry Christmas! > > Thank you! > > > Sincerely, > Gour > > -- > Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not > working. One cannot even maintain one's physical body without work. > > > > > >

Dec. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] example of stand-alone desktop app

by SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka

On Pet, 2015-12-25 at 11:48 +0100, Cyril Ferlicot wrote: > First, be careful with Pharo 5 because this is an alpha. There is high > chance that someÂ things breake. If you find some bug you can report it > on pharo's fogbugz (the link is on Pharo website). OK. No problem. > For the deployment you have a different virtual machine for > OSX/Linux/windows. That's clear. :-) > For now the VM is only 32b, this can create some trouble for Linux > users but the 64b VM should come soon! :) maybe for Pharo 6? Pharo-5 is scheduled for the 1Q/2016? > For now there is not a lot of classic application. I think you can > take a look at Dr Geo. That one looks interesting. Thank you for that. > If you want to do open source you can use the same method that > PharoLauncher that open a window in full screen and let a setting for > developers to be able to get a classic Pharo environment. But the user > might have acess to the code through GTSpotter or Morph's halos. I plan to do open-source, but would like to hide code and other dev tools in order not to confus end-users. > If you don't want the user to get an acess to the code by any mean you > have to cut everything by hand for now. (Disable spotter, disable > halo, disable world menu, disable the debugger...). OK, it means it's possible...Will explore and/or ask. ;) > I would like to have a way to lock an image directly from Pharo +1Â > Welcome to Pharo and merry Christmas! Thank you! Sincerely, Gour -- Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not working. One cannot even maintain one's physical body without work.

Dec. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Fossil and Filetree

by stepharo

>> In a computing monoculture of overcomplex ways of doing programming >> and DVCS is refreshing to find a community where alternative ideas >> like Pharo and fossil and listened and used. > Indeed...now I'm into learning Pharo trying to adjust to some > alternatives, but those will require to ask some additional questions. just ask do not hesitate.

Dec. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Fossil and Filetree

by stepharo

Le 23/12/15 14:23, SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka a Ã©crit : > On Sri, 2015-12-23 at 20:01 +0800, Pierce Ng wrote: > >> For now I'm not bothered about integrating Fossil as a Pharo VCS >> though. I just use Monticello. > Is Monticello good-enough for collaboration with smaller team of devs? of course. Pharo itself is developed like that. Moose too (check their number of packages). Stef > > > Sincerely, > Gour > > -- > As a blazing fire turns firewood to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the > fire of knowledge burn to ashes all reactions to material activities. > > > > > >

Dec. 25, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] example of stand-alone desktop app

by Cyril Ferlicot

Hi, I don't have too much time now so I will try to answer fast. First, be careful with Pharo 5 because this is an alpha. There is high chance that some things breake. If you find some bug you can report it on pharo's fogbugz (the link is on Pharo website). For the deployment you have a different virtual machine for OSX/Linux/windows. Very few things should change on the image side. So for a desktop app the user need to install the virtual machine and launch the image you give him. You can also provide the VM with the image directly if you do not want to annoy the user. For now the VM is only 32b, this can create some trouble for Linux users but the 64b VM should come soon! :) maybe for Pharo 6? If I remember well I think there may be a all-in-all VM but someone need to confirm. For now there is not a lot of classic application. I think you can take a look at Dr Geo. For the deployment I have to say that for now there is not a real solution :( If you want to do open source you can use the same method that PharoLauncher that open a window in full screen and let a setting for developers to be able to get a classic Pharo environment. But the user might have acess to the code through GTSpotter or Morph's halos. If you don't want the user to get an acess to the code by any mean you have to cut everything by hand for now. (Disable spotter, disable halo, disable world menu, disable the debugger...). I would like to have a way to lock an image directly from Pharo but I don't have the time to do it for now. If you need some help to do that you can ask when you will code and we can help you. Welcome to Pharo and merry Christmas! -- Cyril Ferlicot Synectique On Friday, December 25, 2015, SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka <gour(a)atmarama.com> wrote: > Hello, > > I've decided to end my search for an appropriate language/environment in > order to write open-surce multi-platform with Pharo. :-) > > Playing a bit with 5.0 image, watching Dimitris' tutorial series, > reading several articles (I like Richard's Smalltalk-Talk), subscribed > to the mailing lists...convinced me that Smalltalk/Pharo is so much > refreshing environment to code in comparison with the pale setup present > in som many other statically-compiled languages which I was > exploring/evaluating, not to speak about the fact that with Pharo one > gets complete setup at once without the need for tedious work of > bringing editor+other tools together. > > I'm aware that Pharo (Smalltalk) are different and I really like its > development environment, but wonder about deploying. > > There is old thread from 2013 providing some help about deploying > desktop app, but I wonder if something has changed since then making the > whole process somewhat more smooth? > > I run Debian (Sid) where I'll do all my coding, but would like to > provide versions of my desktop app for both Windows and Mac OS-es. > > Any hint how to proceed? > > I'd like to see see basic examples which would be equivalent to e.g. > some 'classical' desktop app having menu bar wit File/Edit/../About > items etc. > > What is different with Pharo? > > I assume one does not want to expose the whole dev environment to the > end-users, so wonder how to do it? > > Do devs plan to improve deploying of Pharo desktop app in the future? > > Although it may be strange, but I'm one of those not liking > proliferation of JS and using it for almost everything and therefore I > prefer to stay with Pharo (vs e.g. Amber) and write desktop app... > > > Sincerely, > Gour > > -- > The intricacies of action are very hard to understand. > Therefore one should know properly what action is, > what forbidden action is, and what inaction is. > > > > > > -- Cheers Cyril Ferlicot

Dec. 25, 2015

example of stand-alone desktop app

by SaÅ¡a JaniÅ¡ka

Hello, I've decided to end my search for an appropriate language/environment in order to write open-surce multi-platform with Pharo. :-)Â Playing a bit with 5.0 image, watching Dimitris' tutorial series, reading several articles (I like Richard's Smalltalk-Talk), subscribed to the mailing lists...convinced me that Smalltalk/Pharo is so much refreshing environment to code in comparison with the pale setup present in som many other statically-compiled languages which I was exploring/evaluating, not to speak about the fact that with Pharo one gets complete setup at once without the need for tedious work of bringing editor+other tools together. I'm aware that Pharo (Smalltalk) are different and I really like its development environment, but wonder about deploying. There is old thread from 2013 providing some help about deploying desktop app, but I wonder if something has changed since then making the whole process somewhat more smooth? I run Debian (Sid) where I'll do all my coding, but would like to provide versions of my desktop app for both Windows and Mac OS-es. Any hint how to proceed? I'd like to see see basic examples which would be equivalent to e.g. some 'classical' desktop app having menu bar wit File/Edit/../About items etc. What is different with Pharo? I assume one does not want to expose the whole dev environment to the end-users, so wonder how to do it? Do devs plan to improve deploying of Pharo desktop app in the future? Although it may be strange, but I'm one of those not liking proliferation of JS and using it for almost everything and therefore I prefer to stay with Pharo (vs e.g. Amber) and write desktop app... Sincerely, Gour -- The intricacies of action are very hard to understand. Therefore one should know properly what action is, what forbidden action is, and what inaction is.

Dec. 25, 2015