January 2015 - Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming proficient in Pharo

by kilon alios

Thank you , it means great deal to me to help people appreciate what excites me about Pharo and the debugger is No1 reason for me and I suspect for the majority of Pharo developers too. I actually have my own questions too that I will try to answer with my next video, these videos are an opportunity for me to test my knowledge. The Debugger is a huge chapter and there is a lot of technomagic you can do with it. On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:09 PM, nacho <0800nacho(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Master kilon, > thank you very much. This is an excellent videcast. > As always with your videos a lot of questions arise after watching them! > I really appreciate you taking the time to put this togheter. > Cheers > nacho > > > > > ----- > Nacho > Smalltalker apprentice. > Buenos Aires, Argentina. > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/Becoming-proficient-in-Pharo-tp4799284p4799717.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Notification on GC of an object?

by Henrik Johansen

> On 14 Jan 2015, at 11:29 , Ben Coman <btc(a)openInWorld.com> wrote: > > what if the object stores a reference to itself? then you can access it from the shadow copy? GC notification is triggered *after* objects are removed, so even if that were to work*, it'd be nil at the time the executor got around to being notified. For "about to be" instead of "was just" GC'd, you'd need Ephemerons, not finalization. Removing a class you're an instance of might be a bit fishy as well. (as I understand were to be the case if you only implement #finalize), though it'd be nice with some details why it "didn't work out" for Johan. Working around that would be specifying a custom #executor instead of #finalize, returning an instance of a separate class, with a slot for the class to be removed when triggered. (That executor class would have to implement finalize, of course) Cheers, Henry * The ref would have to be held through a weak array, otherwise the executor would have a strong reference to the object, and it'd never be garbage collected in the first place... Image Roots -> WeakReg -> Executor -> MyObj

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Useful tools?

by Alexandre Bergel

Looks like to be a spamâ¦ Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > On Jan 15, 2015, at 1:57 PM, laura <laura.risani(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > How was it implemented? Were you building it as an additional package for the > system? > How would it support browsability and discoverability? > > I had in mind a wiki-like catalog hosted on the official page composed by: > -A tree of categories (like > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_categories , it doesn't have > to be complete from the start, categories could be added a posteriori when > needed) > -A set of tags (nice add, but prescindible) > -For each included package, a page specifying a set of predefined fields > (description/purpose, owners contact, links to documentation if available ). > > Those familliar with a package could submit it's fileds information, and a > rotating group of volunteers could handle its approval and edting a new page > for it. Or should anyone be able to edit? > > I think hosting it in the official page is best because it would be > indexable by any web search engine , unrestrictedly visible and could be > exported by other tools. > > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Useful-tools-tp4799187p4799760.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Useful tools?

by laura

How was it implemented? Were you building it as an additional package for the system? How would it support browsability and discoverability? I had in mind a wiki-like catalog hosted on the official page composed by: -A tree of categories (like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_categories , it doesn't have to be complete from the start, categories could be added a posteriori when needed) -A set of tags (nice add, but prescindible) -For each included package, a page specifying a set of predefined fields (description/purpose, owners contact, links to documentation if available ). Those familliar with a package could submit it's fileds information, and a rotating group of volunteers could handle its approval and edting a new page for it. Or should anyone be able to edit? I think hosting it in the official page is best because it would be indexable by any web search engine , unrestrictedly visible and could be exported by other tools. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Useful-tools-tp4799187p4799760.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Could we keep Pharo-dev for Pharo-dev?

by Jimmie Houchin

+1 All Pharo discussions have taken place on this mailing for a long time. Even after starting pharo-users, for people who were already longtime readers of this list favored this list for any and all discussions concerning Pharo. It will be a culture shift for longtime Pharo users, lurkers. It will take some effort and some time but it would be worthwhile for the long term health of the community. I think it would be a good thing to start encouraging off pharo-dev topic posts toward pharo-users and begin the culture change. -1 on StackOverflow Every time I search for something I am trying to learn or discover and I find a question exactly matching what I want to know. It it shut down by the moderators. What I want to know is valid. But it doesn't match their limited view of the world so it gets moderated. I continue searching elsewhere because it is still information I need and an answer I want even if SO doesn't find it valid. Ugh! Looking at the Pharo section on SO I find it states that there are 436 messages tagged with Pharo. When I do this search on Google: "closed as" pharo site:stackoverflow.com I get 288 results. closed as off-topic, closed as not constructive, closed as primarily opinion based, closed as too broad, ... Example: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/27757766/how-to-wrap-a-morph-into-a-wind… This person asked a question and it was closed. But guess what. I imagine they still really wanted an answer. Even it it doesn't fit SO's format. And mostly (my guess from what I saw) closed by people who are not part of this community. SO they are imposing their community rules on our community. I am not real big on that. I also find SO not as good for building community. Community is very important. Especially for smaller groups like Pharo. I haven't spent a lot of time here in a while. But all of the long time readers will be familiar with who I am. The new readers not yet. I can jump in on this list and read new stuff and am familiar with the players. This is a great asset. I have explored learning F#. One of things I have struggled with is where is the community? Where do I engage in conversation? I love that Pharo has a central location for community. These mailing lists. If I have a question. If I want to have a conversation. I know where to do so. I do not want to see that fragmented into mailing list + whatever forum some other person happens to like for the moment. And you can't have this conversation on SO. Or many others which happen here. Just my opinion and my experience. It is worth what you paid. :) Jimmie On 1/15/2015 1:24 AM, stepharo wrote: > Hi guys > > I will start to be picky about the mails to which I reply or even read. > We should be more disciplined. Pharo-dev should be about Pharo-dev > this is important > for our concentration. > I really like the other discussions but we should have them in > Pharo-users. > I think that it makes sense. > > Stef >

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] [ Book Review ] Lauren Ipsum

by Bernat Romagosa

This book is a must read! I use many of its metaphors all the time when teaching! :) It just takes an afternoon to read it, don't miss it. 2015-01-15 16:28 GMT+01:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > Every now and then you come across a book that is special. > > A couple that I remember are 'Structure and Interpretation of Computer > Programs' by Harold Abelson and Gerald Jay Sussman for its high level of > abstraction over petty details and its breath of subjects, 'The Little > Schemer' by Daniel Friedman for its mind blowing Q&A style introduction to > recursive thinking or 'The Connection Machine' by Danny Hillis, a doctoral > thesis that read like a science fiction novel. > > Closer to Pharo, 'Smalltalk Best Practice Patters' by Kent Beck surprises > by being deceptively simple yet profound and by transcending the language > for general object design principles. 'A Mentoring Course on Smalltalk' by > Andres Valloud manages to bring across very advanced ideas mostly by > discussing the implementation of one or two relatively simple problems. > > So what about a (children's) book about computer science without any > (pseudo) code or math ? And make it fun too, please. > > 'Lauren Ipsum' by Carlos Bueno and Ytaelena Lopez [ > http://www.laurenipsum.org ] does just that. > > It is a story about a girl that is lost in some magic land and wants to > get home. Along the way the fundamental principles of computer science get > woven into the story - as if they were the most normal thing in the world > (which they are). > > I was smiling all the time, for all the little jokes and references, > although many of those will be lost on those that are not computer nerds. > Graph searching, reader writer problems, abstraction, heuristics, > networking, communication and so on are all part of the story. Beautiful. > > I read the e-book version in iBooks on my iPhone without any layout > problems. > > Recommended. > > Sven > > > -- > Sven Van Caekenberghe > Proudly supporting Pharo > http://pharo.org > http://association.pharo.org > http://consortium.pharo.org > > > > > > -- Bernat Romagosa.

Jan. 15, 2015

[ Book Review ] Lauren Ipsum

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Every now and then you come across a book that is special. A couple that I remember are 'Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs' by Harold Abelson and Gerald Jay Sussman for its high level of abstraction over petty details and its breath of subjects, 'The Little Schemer' by Daniel Friedman for its mind blowing Q&A style introduction to recursive thinking or 'The Connection Machine' by Danny Hillis, a doctoral thesis that read like a science fiction novel. Closer to Pharo, 'Smalltalk Best Practice Patters' by Kent Beck surprises by being deceptively simple yet profound and by transcending the language for general object design principles. 'A Mentoring Course on Smalltalk' by Andres Valloud manages to bring across very advanced ideas mostly by discussing the implementation of one or two relatively simple problems. So what about a (children's) book about computer science without any (pseudo) code or math ? And make it fun too, please. 'Lauren Ipsum' by Carlos Bueno and Ytaelena Lopez [ http://www.laurenipsum.org ] does just that. It is a story about a girl that is lost in some magic land and wants to get home. Along the way the fundamental principles of computer science get woven into the story - as if they were the most normal thing in the world (which they are). I was smiling all the time, for all the little jokes and references, although many of those will be lost on those that are not computer nerds. Graph searching, reader writer problems, abstraction, heuristics, networking, communication and so on are all part of the story. Beautiful. I read the e-book version in iBooks on my iPhone without any layout problems. Recommended. Sven -- Sven Van Caekenberghe Proudly supporting Pharo http://pharo.org http://association.pharo.org http://consortium.pharo.org

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Becoming proficient in Pharo

by nacho

Master kilon, thank you very much. This is an excellent videcast. As always with your videos a lot of questions arise after watching them! I really appreciate you taking the time to put this togheter. Cheers nacho ----- Nacho Smalltalker apprentice. Buenos Aires, Argentina. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Becoming-proficient-in-Pharo-tp4799284p4799717.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 15, 2015

Stackoverflow, was: [Pharo-dev] Could we keep Pharo-dev for Pharo-dev?

by Stephan Eggermont

Serge wrote: >Shall we move the discussion to pharo-users instead ? Yep. >I was not aware of that. Do you have recent examples about this behaviour ? The last closed question was fine. Flagging it just gets clueless moderator replies: "declined - The question really needs to be fleshed out. Including the code for the rectangle morph would help a lot." An earlier one was Command pattern in smalltalk [closed] (you might not be able to see that as it was deleted). Of the 10 most popular smalltalk questions, at least 8 would be closed using current moderation standards. There is not 1 question from last year amongst the 50 most popular questions. In the top 100 there are 2, and the most popular one is about Objective C. The most popular question from last year gets 7 votes. That means there are not enough smalltalkers on SO to be able to reopen questions. The gaming system basically values popularity of answers, not correctness. It reinforces majority choices. Phil wrote: >Traffic increases as a sign of traction/engagement and we want to silence things. Yeah sure. > >Put a tag in the title and filter on that. Some channels are more effective than others. Stackoverflow is not an effective channel. Ignoring it is not smart. Answer questions and point people to the mailing lists. Stephan

Jan. 15, 2015

Re: [Pharo-users] Making objects persistent

by sergio_101

Hi, all.. these are all ideas that make sense, and for the sake of any new people coming to pharo/smalltalk, i want to clarify just a little bit more what i am actually doing. i am setting up a new site that needs to have a bunch of data available at all times. something like.. products, product types, pricing.. not really, but you get the idea. i have a class that just buzzes through and creates the data from some external CSV files. this data will form the basis of the app.. very quickly this will be outdated.. but it will be a good place to start the app.. i plan on using gemstones as a data store when this goes live for real, but for now, i am just persisting data in the image, and will even do so on the proof site. when the site goes into production mode, i will set up gemstones. since this is all happening completely out of seaside, i don't want to tie this to seaside at all. there are a few of these objects being created insides a test case, but they disappear pretty quickly after the tests are run. i think what i am going to end up doing is creating a class variable that holds an array of these items. this should keep them available. I will let you know. Thanks! On Thu Jan 15 2015 at 4:52:30 AM Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > Store the objects in an array in a class variable. > To delete, just nil the class variable. > > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:44 PM, jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de < > jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> wrote: > >> Sergio, >> >> I'D say you first need to define what you mean by "persistent" If all you >> need is to have them survive a Garbage Collection, you just need to make >> sure these objects are referenced by som eother objects. Depending on your >> use case, this can be Seaside Sessions, Global variables (probably the >> worst idea), TestCase subclasses or even a TestResource. >> >> If you want to persist them for longer, we are talking about storage of >> objects, which is another beast. What comes to mind are options like Fuel, >> STON, Json, Voyage/Mongo or Glorp with some Database - the choices are >> endless. >> >> Joachim >> >> >> Am 15.01.15 um 08:32 schrieb phil(a)highoctane.be: >> >> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:06 AM, sergio_101 <sergio.rrd(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I am building a seaside application, and am in the process of building >>> my models and unit tests. >>> >>> I have a few objects that build up my data by creating objects. >>> >>> when i run the data creation methods, everything is fine. immediately >>> afterward, since these objects to belong to anything, they are cleaned up >>> by garbage collection. >>> >>> >> >>> is there a way to create these objects so that they persist? >>> >> >> >> They should belong to your session if you want them to live for the >> session. >> >> Otherwise, I guess you can put them in a global var to make it >> available everywhere, or in >> >> GRObject>>application, session, or requestContext depending on how long >> you want them to live. >> >> >> >>> if this is possible, how would you go about deleting such a tenacious >>> object? >>> >> >> Session expiry for session vars. The other ones, standard Smalltalk >> way, replacing the reference with something else innocuous if you can't get >> rid of them the normal gc way. >> >> Like, x become: String new. (and not x become: nil, which would make >> nil become x...) >> >>> >>> thanks! >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Objektfabrik Joachim Tuchel mailto:jtuchel@objektfabrik.de <jtuchel(a)objektfabrik.de> >> Fliederweg 1 http://www.objektfabrik.de >> D-71640 Ludwigsburg http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com >> Telefon: +49 7141 56 10 86 0 Fax: +49 7141 56 10 86 1 >> >> >> >

Jan. 15, 2015