September 2014 - Pharo-users

Re: [Pharo-users] Hash values

by Alexandre Bergel

Yeah!!! That would be really cool! Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. On Sep 26, 2014, at 4:02 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> Alejandro and I are working on a new profiling technique to identify redundant objects. >> >> Weâve heard there are some effort on increasing the range of identity hash values. Currently, it goes up to 4096, which is not much. Can someone tell us about this? > Check the spur format on clement's blog. If I remember we will have 12 bits for hashes soon. >> >> Also, I discovered that -100 hash = -100. Does this make sense? >> >> Cheers, >> Alexandre >> -- >> _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: >> Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu >> ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. >> >> >> >

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Ridiculous we are

by Hilaire

Le 26/09/2014 21:00, phil(a)highoctane.be a Ã©crit : > I'd love another title for this thread. > > It depresses me. Yes, me too. Hilaire -- Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu iStoa - http://istoa.drgeo.eu

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Hash values

by stepharo

> Hi! > > Alejandro and I are working on a new profiling technique to identify > redundant objects. > > Weâve heard there are some effort on increasing the range of identity > hash values. Currently, it goes up to 4096, which is not much. Can > someone tell us about this? Check the spur format on clement's blog. If I remember we will have 12 bits for hashes soon. > > Also, I discovered that -100 hash = -100. Does this make sense? > > Cheers, > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > >

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Ridiculous we are

by phil＠highoctane.be

I'd love another title for this thread. It depresses me. Phil On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 8:48 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > Sven I love this chapter. > I will read it calmly now. > > Stef > > On 25/9/14 07:23, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > >> On 25 Sep 2014, at 01:04, Alain Rastoul <alf.mmm.cat(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Le 25/09/2014 00:06, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : >>> >>>> Alain, >>>> The character encoding situation in Pharo is pretty good actually. The >>>> only problem is that there is some old school code left that encodes >>>> strings into strings, but today you can easily write much better and >>>> conceptually correct code. >>>> >>>> You could have a look at this draft chapter of the upcoming 'Enterprise >>>> Pharo' book that I am currently writing: >>>> >>>> http://stfx.eu/EnterprisePharo/Zinc-Encoding-Meta/ >>>> >>>> Concerning file system paths, FilePathEncoder and FilePluginPrimitives >>>> already do the right thing. >>>> >>>> Now, your idea about using UTF-8 to represent internal Strings is >>>> something that has been discussed before and in many other languages as >>>> well. The short answer is that due to it being variable length, the >>>> inefficiency is (probably) just too high. Simple indexed access becomes a >>>> problem, let alone more complex string manipulations. I am not saying that >>>> it cannot be done, I think it is just not worth the trouble. The current >>>> solution in Pharo with ByteString and WideString is quite nice (check the >>>> chapter I mentioned before). >>>> >>>> Sven >>>> >>>> Very interesting ! >>> It seems that most of what I was saying is already here :) >>> I was not saying that Pharo should use utf8 (I mentionned utf8 because >>> it is a standard, but I find the variable length encoding very weird), I >>> was rather talking of using WideString in UTF 16 or 32 and that's done. >>> I saw asWideString but didn't know about automatic convertion or >>> codepoint selector and internal wide string support. >>> Does it means that Pharo Greek users (for example) use WideString for >>> Strings without having to specify it or make explicit convertions (except >>> of course when dealing with bytes if they want to) ? >>> If yes, very good, job is almost done :) >>> (personnally I would also deprecate ByteString, and get rid of it, just >>> my opinion). >>> Thanks for the link, another good chapter . >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Alain >>> >> Yes, the Greek users won't notice a difference, it is all transparent. >> ByteString is important because it is an optimalization of the most common >> case. As a normal user you should only think of abstract Strings and never >> use #asByteString (but use proper encoding). >> >> Feedback on the chapter is always welcome. >> >> Sven >> >> > > >

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Ridiculous we are

by stepharo

Sven I love this chapter. I will read it calmly now. Stef On 25/9/14 07:23, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: > On 25 Sep 2014, at 01:04, Alain Rastoul <alf.mmm.cat(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Le 25/09/2014 00:06, Sven Van Caekenberghe a Ã©crit : >>> Alain, >>> The character encoding situation in Pharo is pretty good actually. The only problem is that there is some old school code left that encodes strings into strings, but today you can easily write much better and conceptually correct code. >>> >>> You could have a look at this draft chapter of the upcoming 'Enterprise Pharo' book that I am currently writing: >>> >>> http://stfx.eu/EnterprisePharo/Zinc-Encoding-Meta/ >>> >>> Concerning file system paths, FilePathEncoder and FilePluginPrimitives already do the right thing. >>> >>> Now, your idea about using UTF-8 to represent internal Strings is something that has been discussed before and in many other languages as well. The short answer is that due to it being variable length, the inefficiency is (probably) just too high. Simple indexed access becomes a problem, let alone more complex string manipulations. I am not saying that it cannot be done, I think it is just not worth the trouble. The current solution in Pharo with ByteString and WideString is quite nice (check the chapter I mentioned before). >>> >>> Sven >>> >> Very interesting ! >> It seems that most of what I was saying is already here :) >> I was not saying that Pharo should use utf8 (I mentionned utf8 because it is a standard, but I find the variable length encoding very weird), I was rather talking of using WideString in UTF 16 or 32 and that's done. >> I saw asWideString but didn't know about automatic convertion or codepoint selector and internal wide string support. >> Does it means that Pharo Greek users (for example) use WideString for Strings without having to specify it or make explicit convertions (except of course when dealing with bytes if they want to) ? >> If yes, very good, job is almost done :) >> (personnally I would also deprecate ByteString, and get rid of it, just my opinion). >> Thanks for the link, another good chapter . >> >> Regards, >> >> Alain > Yes, the Greek users won't notice a difference, it is all transparent. ByteString is important because it is an optimalization of the most common case. As a normal user you should only think of abstract Strings and never use #asByteString (but use proper encoding). > > Feedback on the chapter is always welcome. > > Sven >

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Ridiculous we are

by stepharo

I'm not expert and I would like to know what people think. But I think that we should consider - the impact of spur new object format. I would like to have unicode and clean the leadChar Stef

Sept. 26, 2014

Hash values

by Alexandre Bergel

Hi! Alejandro and I are working on a new profiling technique to identify redundant objects. Weâve heard there are some effort on increasing the range of identity hash values. Currently, it goes up to 4096, which is not much. Can someone tell us about this? Also, I discovered that -100 hash = -100. Does this make sense? Cheers, Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] How to set a white background with Spec ?

by Nicolai Hess

Changes on a widget attributes can be defined when it is build. To hook into this, use #whenBuiltDo: |t| t:= TextModel new. t whenBuiltDo:[:a | a widget color: Color gray]. t openWithSpec. 2014-09-26 15:51 GMT+02:00 Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl>: > > I have not tried this, I just browsed the documentation, but I am putting > it here as this process usually is the right way to find answers to these > questions: I looked at the spec class for windows: WindowModel and the > âprotocol' protocol to see its configuration options. None mention color. I > looked at the superclass: AbstractWindowModel, and the âprotocolâ protocol > does have a color: setter. > > So if you have a reference to the WindowModel for the window you are > using, you should be able to set the color. Please tell me if this works > for you. I think this question is a good candidate for updating the > documentation. > > On Sep 26, 2014, at 6:11 AM, Annick Fron <list(a)afceurope.com> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I am using a window with spec, where can I define a white > background for it ? > > > > Annick > > > > > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > > >

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] invoking python from pharo

by kilon alios

well in my case that wont be necessary since Ephestos has its own book and I will keep documenting the more features I add. I am also thinking of dropping external documentation and bringing it inside the image. If PFTE is near completion then most likely will be a next book but I decided to concentrate more on my own project . I started ambitious with this project but now I want to make something smaller, easier and more practical for my personal needs as a 3d artist. On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > kilon alios wrote: > >> Hi there, I promised to do this a long time ago, but since you asked it I >> done it now. >> So as Ben said I am the author of Ephestos, a communication bridge >> between Blender and Pharo . >> To go directly to the how to . Ephestos is basically a socket bridge that >> send via sockets strings from pharo to python that then python executes as >> python commands. >> Ephestos is made so it works inside blender but I promised Atals a spin >> off project that allows the same socket bridge to be used as a standalone. >> To use do the following. >> 1) Get Ephestos , you can find it and install it with the configuration >> browser in your image in Pharo 3 and Pharo 4. Make sure you have a recent >> release though because I added it recently. >> 2) Get pyAtlas , this is the python side , you can get it from here --> >> https://github.com/kilon/pyAtlas >> >> 3) in your command line cd to the pyAtlas directory and execute : >> python3 pyAtlas.py >> >> 4) in Pharo you can now try any python code you want >> for example >> >> Ephestos sendMessage: 'print("hello world")'. >> Ephestos sendMessage: 'x = 3'. >> x := Ephestos getValue: 'x'. >> x inspect. >> >> Ephestos sendMessage: string, basically sends the python command to be >> executes while getValue: sends the command and returns a value as a string. >> you can use string 'exit' to close the socket bridge but this part is >> buggy as it seems to keep the binding of the sokcet active and I have to >> wait to clean it up in macos to reopen the bridge. >> You can also use pharo syntax and python errors will trigger the pharo >> debugger with a title the python error itself. >> You can find more information about Ephestos in my gitbook that can be >> read here >> >> https://www.gitbook.io/book/kilon/ephestos >> >> Also I forgot to add that sendMessage can send multiline strings , so its >> possible to send python class definitions and other stuff, you type the >> string exactly as you would type python code respecting whitespaces. If you >> want to execute loads of lines of python code then it would be better to >> put your code in a python module and do >> Ephestos sendMessage: 'import mymodule' >> assuming your module is called 'mymodule' , python import basically are >> executions of code. >> If you have any questions just ask. >> Bare in mind this is a socket bridge so its not ideal for sending >> thousands of messages per second and you may run into the occasional bug or >> two which I will fix if you report it. Nonetheless it should allow you to >> execute any kind of code and not just call python functions or python >> methods. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 7:40 PM, Ben Coman <btc(a)openinworld.com <mailto: >> btc(a)openinworld.com>> wrote: >> >> __ >> Pablo R. Digonzelli wrote: >> >>> Hi all , I need to invoke python rutines from Pharo. I need some >>> orientation about the best way to do it. >>> TIA >>> >>> **** >>> ------------------------------------------------------------ >>> ------------ >>> *Ing. Pablo Digonzelli* >>> Software Solutions >>> IP-Solutiones SRL >>> Metrotec SRL >>> 25 de Mayo 521 >>> Email: pdigonzelli(a)softsargentina.com >>> <mailto:pdigonzelli@softsargentina.com> >>> pdigonzelli(a)gmail.com <mailto:pdigonzelli@gmail.com> >>> Cel: 5493815982714 >>> >> >> Search the [pharo-dev] list for Ephestos by kilon. >> cheers -ben >> >> >> > I was going to say... "invoking python from Pharo" with Ephestos/Atlas > would make a good chapter for Pharo For The Enterprise, but that book is > actually pretty full. With other things like OSWindow and SDL coming > along, I wonder if there might be a new book called "Phoreign Pharo" to > accumulate solutions to access the world outside the Image. > cheers -ben > >

Sept. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Passed by references and by value

by Alexandre Bergel

Indeed, one should not care about copy by value / reference in Pharo. Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. On Sep 25, 2014, at 4:52 PM, stepharo <stepharo(a)free.fr> wrote: > >> Hi, >> In PBE says that ordinary objects' ivars are passed by references and small >> integers are passed by value. > > Strange I do not remember having written that. > Especially because in Smalltalk this has no real interest. > >> Is there a way to know if a class is passed by reference or by value? > In Smalltalk consider that everything is an object and that you pass a reference to the object. >> Only small integers are passed as value? >> Thanks in advance >> Nacho >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> Nacho >> Smalltalker apprentice. >> Buenos Aires, Argentina. >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Passed-by-references-and-by-value-tp4780289.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> > >

Sept. 26, 2014