Totally agree with the slides apart from "Pharo is Small" , the syntax may be but the whole environment last time I checked was 700k lines of code, which is huge for a dynamic language. Of course that is far from bad at least for me, I love powerful environments over minimal solutions. You reminded me that I neeed to update my "Why Pharo" video :) Great work On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 2:43 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote:

Hi Stephan,

...

On 25 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:

I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together

https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7

Stephan

Great article, super cool slides, well done. I especially appreciate how you guys managed to make so many good points in such a deceptively simple and clear text — that takes a lot of work.

Any chance you would like to submit it too 'Concerning Pharo' publication [ https://medium.com/concerning-pharo] ? Just send a submission and I would love to add it.

Sven

Hi, For reference, I just downloaded Ruby 2.3.1 (https://cache.ruby-lang.org/pub/ruby/2.3/ruby-2.3.1.tar.gz) and did: ('ruby-2.3.1' asFileReference allFiles select: [:each | each extension = 'rb' ]) sum: [ :each | [each contents lines size] on: Error do: [ :e | 0 ] ]. “826204" (there are two files that are not in UTF-8 so they were not counted here) Cheers, Doru

On Sep 25, 2016, at 3:45 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:

Hi,

...

On Sep 25, 2016, at 2:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

Totally agree with the slides apart from "Pharo is Small" , the syntax may be but the whole environment last time I checked was 700k lines of code which is huge for a dynamic language. Of course that is far from bad at least for me, I love powerful environments over minimal solutions.

Just for reference, Pharo 5 has: Smalltalk allClasses sumNumbers: #linesOfCode “515500"

This is still a lot, but we should compare against a language + IDE + compiler + collections + version management system + project dependency system + several significant other libraries. This might turn out to be quite small in the end :).

But, one thing I would stress is that "Pharo is Uniform”. This is what in the end makes it seem “Small”.

Cheers, Doru

...

You reminded me that I neeed to update my "Why Pharo" video :)

Great work

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 2:43 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote: Hi Stephan,

...

On 25 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:

I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together

https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7

Stephan

Great article, super cool slides, well done. I especially appreciate how you guys managed to make so many good points in such a deceptively simple and clear text — that takes a lot of work.

Any chance you would like to submit it too 'Concerning Pharo' publication [https://medium.com/concerning-pharo] ? Just send a submission and I would love to add it.

Sven

-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com

"If you can't say why something is relevant, it probably isn't."

-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "To lead is not to demand things, it is to make them happen."

Wow I am surprised C++ is so popular "* The larger the code base, the less contributors and activity." sounds reasonable but I will assume here that larger code base means more users since its more likely to have more features. But for contributing to code yeah people tend to avoid complex projects, obviously its far easier to contribute in something much simpler. However large size is an inevitable outcome you can only postpone it with clean ups unless of course the project dies in the process. On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 5:46 PM Ben Coman <btc@openinworld.com> wrote:

Slides 5, 8-10 provide an interesting perspective on project size http://www.slideshare.net/blackducksoftware/open-source-by-the-numbers

and interesting conclusions on slide 17 * The larger the code base, the less contributors and activity. * The "most likely to succeed" -- are still small enough for people joining them to have an impact.

where <1MLOC seems fine, and also the accessibility of whole system makes it easier for people to have an impact.

cheers -ben

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote:

...

Hi,

...

On Sep 25, 2016, at 2:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

Totally agree with the slides apart from "Pharo is Small" , the syntax may be but the whole environment last time I checked was 700k lines of code which is huge for a dynamic language. Of course that is far from bad at least for me, I love powerful environments over minimal solutions.

Just for reference, Pharo 5 has: Smalltalk allClasses sumNumbers: #linesOfCode “515500"

This is still a lot, but we should compare against a language + IDE + compiler + collections + version management system + project dependency system + several significant other libraries. This might turn out to be quite small in the end :).

But, one thing I would stress is that "Pharo is Uniform”. This is what in the end makes it seem “Small”.

Cheers, Doru

...

You reminded me that I neeed to update my "Why Pharo" video :)

Great work

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 2:43 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote: Hi Stephan,

...

On 25 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:

I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together

https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7

Stephan

Great article, super cool slides, well done. I especially appreciate how you guys managed to make so many good points in such a deceptively simple and clear text — that takes a lot of work.

Any chance you would like to submit it too 'Concerning Pharo' publication [https://medium.com/concerning-pharo] ? Just send a submission and I would love to add it.

Sven

-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com

"If you can't say why something is relevant, it probably isn't."

Hi,

On Sep 25, 2016, at 6:16 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

yes all I did is to open the sources file in a text editor and see which one was the last line, that means it includes empty lines too. So 500k sound normal to me.

Personally as a user I rarely care about the size because I rarely care to modify the existing image . For me its more important to have more features that make my work easier.

Also bare in mind in case of Ruby as with Python, that there is A LOT of C involved which is a very verbose language and of course that includes VM and low level parts that in the case of Pharo are not included in the image.

I only counted the rb files, not the C ones (see the script) :) Doru

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 4:46 PM Tudor Girba <tudor@tudorgirba.com> wrote: Hi,

...

On Sep 25, 2016, at 2:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

Totally agree with the slides apart from "Pharo is Small" , the syntax may be but the whole environment last time I checked was 700k lines of code which is huge for a dynamic language. Of course that is far from bad at least for me, I love powerful environments over minimal solutions.

Just for reference, Pharo 5 has: Smalltalk allClasses sumNumbers: #linesOfCode “515500"

This is still a lot, but we should compare against a language + IDE + compiler + collections + version management system + project dependency system + several significant other libraries. This might turn out to be quite small in the end :).

But, one thing I would stress is that "Pharo is Uniform”. This is what in the end makes it seem “Small”.

Cheers, Doru

...

You reminded me that I neeed to update my "Why Pharo" video :)

Great work

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 2:43 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote: Hi Stephan,

...

On 25 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:

I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together

https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7

Stephan

Great article, super cool slides, well done. I especially appreciate how you guys managed to make so many good points in such a deceptively simple and clear text — that takes a lot of work.

Any chance you would like to submit it too 'Concerning Pharo' publication [https://medium.com/concerning-pharo] ? Just send a submission and I would love to add it.

Sven

-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com

"If you can't say why something is relevant, it probably isn't."

-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "There are no old things, there are only old ways of looking at them."

Once I sadi to my students that for something doing nothing zero is the right size :) So everything is a question of ratio. Le 25/9/16 à 16:45, Tudor Girba a écrit :

Hi,

...

On Sep 25, 2016, at 2:01 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.alios@gmail.com> wrote:

Totally agree with the slides apart from "Pharo is Small" , the syntax may be but the whole environment last time I checked was 700k lines of code which is huge for a dynamic language. Of course that is far from bad at least for me, I love powerful environments over minimal solutions.

Just for reference, Pharo 5 has: Smalltalk allClasses sumNumbers: #linesOfCode “515500"

This is still a lot, but we should compare against a language + IDE + compiler + collections + version management system + project dependency system + several significant other libraries. This might turn out to be quite small in the end :).

But, one thing I would stress is that "Pharo is Uniform”. This is what in the end makes it seem “Small”.

Cheers, Doru

...

You reminded me that I neeed to update my "Why Pharo" video :)

Great work

On Sun, Sep 25, 2016 at 2:43 PM Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven@stfx.eu> wrote: Hi Stephan,

...

On 25 Sep 2016, at 13:07, Stephan Eggermont <stephan@stack.nl> wrote:

I finally found the time to put the slides and narrative together

https://medium.com/@stephan_32833/pharo-50c66685913c#.jeou548z7

Stephan Great article, super cool slides, well done. I especially appreciate how you guys managed to make so many good points in such a deceptively simple and clear text — that takes a lot of work.

Any chance you would like to submit it too 'Concerning Pharo' publication [https://medium.com/concerning-pharo] ? Just send a submission and I would love to add it.

Sven

-- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com

"If you can't say why something is relevant, it probably isn't."