- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] A Canticle for Smalltalk

by horrido

What is the intentend audience of this? I watched the video again, carefully, and here's my takeaway... The video is aimed at developers and would-be developers who: â have never heard of Smalltalk, or do not know anything significant about the language or its history â are not aware that Smalltalk was once a reasonably popular language, so it's not as obscure and esoteric as they think â do not know that there have been two conflicting philosophies surrounding OOP, and that most developers have learned OOP "the wrong way" â and, most importantly, that Smalltalk represents a new programming model, distinct from the one that most everyone have been using since the days of FORTRAN and COBOL This last point is crucial. I've heard so many complaints about Smalltalk being too "insular" because of its system image, that it doesn't play well with existing programming tools like text editors, command line utilities, git, etc. Duh! It's a new programming model! What do you expect? And now that Pharo plays nice with git, insularity is no longer as big a deal. This new programming model is THE REASON that Smalltalk is so super productive. If the video can drive home this point, and I think it does, that's a huge achievement. -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Aug. 6, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] A Canticle for Smalltalk

by horrido

Hmmm, I apparently guessed wrong. :-( Richard Sargent wrote > On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:16 PM BrunoBB < > smalltalk@.com > > wrote: > >> /Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't >> work >> anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system. / >> >> How accurate is this ? >> > > OOCL advanced their system to IRIS-4 (Oracle based) and was eventually > bought by COSCO, a mainland China shipping company. COSCO is currently > running IRIS-2. > > >> From: >> >> https://www.oocl.com/eng/aboutoocl/companyprofile/informationtechnology/Pag… >> >> OOCL's Integrated Regional Information System, known as IRIS-2, was >> launched in 1999. IRIS-2 became more than just a software; it helped >> facilitate a new company culture. * IRIS-2 has changed the way we think >> and >> the way we do business.* >> >> regards, >> bruno >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >> -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Aug. 6, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] A Canticle for Smalltalk

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 5:39 PM horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I've read a number of LinkedIn posts from Mariano MartÃnez Peck about > recent > innovations to VA Smalltalk, IIRC. Seems to me that Instantiations are > doing > a good job of innovating, too. > > Thanks Richard. Funny thing... I was typing my response while yours jumped in :) -- Mariano Martinez Peck Email: marianopeck(a)gmail.com Twitter: @MartinezPeck LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-martinez-peck <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-mart%C3%ADnez-peck/> Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/

Aug. 6, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] A Canticle for Smalltalk

by horrido

I'm just guessing, but perhaps COSCO's acquisition of OOCL forced them to realign their software infrastructure. COSCO is obviously not a Smalltalk shop. This wouldn't be the first time an acquisition forced major corporate changes. Mariano Martinez Peck wrote > The last place was a few days ago: > https://twitter.com/MartinClausen8/status/1157051595999404033 > But... a whole longer discussion took place a few months ago...but I > cannot > find it now. > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 5:19 PM BrunoBB < > smalltalk@.com > > wrote: > >> Sorry, >> >> The main phrase: >> >> Today, we continue to reap the rewards of this remarkable system. >> >> regards, >> bruno >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> >> > > -- > Mariano Martinez Peck > Email: > marianopeck@ > Twitter: @MartinezPeck > LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-martinez-peck > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-mart%C3%ADnez-peck/> > Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/ -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Aug. 6, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] A Canticle for Smalltalk

by Richard Sargent

On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 4:16 PM BrunoBB <smalltalk(a)adinet.com.uy> wrote: > /Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't > work > anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system. / > > How accurate is this ? > OOCL advanced their system to IRIS-4 (Oracle based) and was eventually bought by COSCO, a mainland China shipping company. COSCO is currently running IRIS-2. > From: > > https://www.oocl.com/eng/aboutoocl/companyprofile/informationtechnology/Pag… > > OOCL's Integrated Regional Information System, known as IRIS-2, was > launched in 1999. IRIS-2 became more than just a software; it helped > facilitate a new company culture. * IRIS-2 has changed the way we think and > the way we do business.* > > regards, > bruno > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > >

Aug. 6, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] A Canticle for Smalltalk

by Mariano Martinez Peck

Hi Torsten, how are you? Please find my answers below. On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 12:37 PM Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > >Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't > work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system. > > Many things seem to be possible in times where talks like "How to get rid > of Smalltalk" [1] will be presented on > a Smalltalk conference (here ESUG 2019). > > Yes, I saw it too and caught my attention. Here is more details about the talk: https://github.com/ESUG/esug.github.io/blob/source/2019-Conference/talks/20… I think it's a nice gesture from ESUG to not ban it and let him speak. Whether we agree or not, that's a different discussion. But we can't ban. > Did commercial / traditional Smalltalk world really change over the years? > I'm not following them too closely in recent months > but I see some commercial vendors still try to attract people with old > success stories and videos from ancient times. > You know I am working for Instantiations. I have seen what you mean too in other vendors but I cannot speak in public about that. Feel free to send me a private email. Where is the "coolness factor" combined with fancy marketing to attract new > generations and audience... > > That's exactly the kind of marketing that we are doing at Instantiations. We are doing a lot of R&D in many areas such as IoT, ARM (we have ARM 32 and ARM 64), Raspberry Pi, AI/ML TensorFlow, Docker and many many other aspects. We have also moved forward on improving dialect compatibility such as writing a Tonel reader AND WRITER. Just take a look to my or or Instantiations twitter/linkedin activity and you will see it. You can also see our recent newsletter: https://mailchi.mp/instantiations/va-smalltalk-news-august-1-3037649 https://mailchi.mp/instantiations/va-smalltalk-news-april-17 Instantiations sponsored Camp St NC on March https://twitter.com/CampSmalltalkNA , its sponsoring ESUG and will sponsor Smalltalks. If you check everything I sent, you will notice there is not a single reference to success stories (except one that partner with us to build the new LLVM JIT). > And this although Smalltalk seems to be often mentioned as favourite > language like in [2] > > Pharo is in fact the main innovation driver these days. Another reason to > move on, to improve it or even change Pharo more radical > into a world beyond traditional Smalltalk. We all know that many new cool > and interesting things could be done on top > of the powerful base of a lively and dynamic object oriented system which > we still share with the historic roots.... > > Well, I don't fully agree there. See my response here: http://forum.world.st/Re-Pharo-users-OT-slightly-What-makes-other-dialects-… I don't mind Pharo moving forward in innovation and with more radical changes beyond traditional Smalltalk etc etc. But then don't call it "business friendly". It's not that you have 100 paid engineers to work on it. IMHO you cannot correctly target both. Best regards, -- Mariano Martinez Peck Email: marianopeck(a)gmail.com Twitter: @MartinezPeck LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-martinez-peck <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-mart%C3%ADnez-peck/> Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/

Aug. 6, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] A Canticle for Smalltalk

by horrido

I've read a number of LinkedIn posts from Mariano MartÃnez Peck about recent innovations to VA Smalltalk, IIRC. Seems to me that Instantiations are doing a good job of innovating, too. Torsten Bergmann wrote >>Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system.Â > > Many things seem to be possible in times where talks like "How to get rid > of Smalltalk" [1] will be presented on > a Smalltalk conference (here ESUG 2019). > > Did commercial / traditional Smalltalk world really change over the years? > I'm not following them too closely in recent months > but I see some commercial vendors still try to attract people with old > success stories and videos from ancient times. > Where is the "coolness factor" combined with fancy marketing to attract > new generations and audience... > > And this although Smalltalk seems to be often mentioned as favourite > language like in [2] > > Pharo is in fact the main innovation driver these days. Another reason to > move on, to improve it or even change Pharo more radical > into a world beyond traditional Smalltalk. We all know that many new cool > and interesting things could be done on top > of the powerful base of a lively and dynamic object oriented system which > we still share with the historic roots.... > > Bye > T. > > [1] https://esug.github.io/2019-Conference/conf2019.html > [2] https://twitter.com/Grady_Booch/status/1157049284870602752 -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Aug. 6, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] A Canticle for Smalltalk

by Mariano Martinez Peck

The last place was a few days ago: https://twitter.com/MartinClausen8/status/1157051595999404033 But... a whole longer discussion took place a few months ago...but I cannot find it now. On Tue, Aug 6, 2019 at 5:19 PM BrunoBB <smalltalk(a)adinet.com.uy> wrote: > Sorry, > > The main phrase: > > Today, we continue to reap the rewards of this remarkable system. > > regards, > bruno > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > > -- Mariano Martinez Peck Email: marianopeck(a)gmail.com Twitter: @MartinezPeck LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-martinez-peck <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariano-mart%C3%ADnez-peck/> Blog: https://marianopeck.wordpress.com/

Aug. 6, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] A Canticle for Smalltalk

by BrunoBB

Sorry, The main phrase: Today, we continue to reap the rewards of this remarkable system. regards, bruno -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Aug. 6, 2019

Re: [Pharo-users] A Canticle for Smalltalk

by BrunoBB

/Yes. And I think it's even more sad than the containers example doesn't work anymore... AFAIK they replaced the system. / How accurate is this ? From: https://www.oocl.com/eng/aboutoocl/companyprofile/informationtechnology/Pag… OOCL's Integrated Regional Information System, known as IRIS-2, was launched in 1999. IRIS-2 became more than just a software; it helped facilitate a new company culture. * IRIS-2 has changed the way we think and the way we do business.* regards, bruno -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Aug. 6, 2019