- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Embedding pharo in C++

by Pierce Ng

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 08:20:48PM +0100, Roland PlÃ¼ss via Pharo-users wrote: > The first mode is the "runtime mode". This would be the mode used for > the released products and does not allow to "directly modify" the image. > This mode would only require basic set of classes (frameworks) since the > game engine provides a large set of functionality in the module layer so > the script layer provides the logic, UI and things like that. This image > would not require to be enriched with a lot of things. This is doable currently. The Pharo image is embedded into the executable and used in read-only mode. Although personally I'd implement as much of the app logic in Pharo as possible simply because of the high productivity. > The second mode is the "development mode". For this one I thought about > exposing a Pharo VM image acting as the Coding and Debugging IDE. Here I > would opt to expose the full power of Pharo/Smalltalk to the developer. I envisage doing this via some kind of data exchange between the host program and Pharo, which seems doable for both the embedded and 'over the wire' development cases. Pablo recently published an example of embedding a headless-but-GUI Pharo image inside a C program via the Windows resource mechanism. As it happens, I have just implemented the same example that works on Linux and MacOS from one source code. Didn't test on Windows, but I'm sure it'll work there too. In a day or two I will publish the code and blog post. Attached teaser screenshot. :-) Pierce

Jan. 22, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Embedding pharo in C++

by ponyatov

Good day Is it a variant to implement an embeddable Little Smalltalk-like engine that does not use bytecode but uses LLVM JIT for direct machine code compilation? Or maybe can we use a less aggressive approach with the same embedded engine which interprets bytecode? -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Jan. 22, 2020

Re: Embedding pharo in C++

by Roland PlÃ¼ss

Hi StÃ©phane, In the GnuSmalltalk PoC I could init the VM and then I run functions in it like this: Â Â gst_perform(pObjGame, selector); Then I created some native test functions in C like this: Â Â gst_define_cfunc("DECanvas.setPosition", (void*)funcSetPosition);" I then added in smalltalk a function definition calling the c-function like this: position: aDEPoint [ Â Â "Set position in parent canvas view units." Â Â <cCall: 'DECanvas.setPosition' returning: #void args: #(#self #smalltalk)> ] If PharoVM would provide a mechanis like this then this would be all I need to pull it off. That said though I don't know how the PharoVM works on the inside. I just read somewhere that there is an FFI with cCall so that sounds like basically half the job done. Just tossing thoughts around here though. On 1/21/20 10:13 PM, StÃ©phane Ducasse wrote: > Hi roland,Â > >> *From: *Roland PlÃ¼ss <roland(a)rptd.ch <mailto:roland@rptd.ch>> >> *Subject: **Re: Embedding pharo in C++* >> *Date: *21 January 2020 at 20:20:48 CET >> *To: *Pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:Pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> >> >> >> Looks like you always meet twice in life I guess. You won't remember >> me but I've been a student of yours once upon time. Nice to see you >> again, Prof. Ducasse, >> > Oh niceâ¦. > Long time :) > I was younger :) > >> I had in mind to have the VM running in two modes actually. >> >> The first mode is the "runtime mode". This would be the mode used for >> the released products and does not allow to "directly modify" the >> image. This mode would only require basic set of classes (frameworks) >> since the game engine provides a large set of functionality in the >> module layer so the script layer provides the logic, UI and things >> like that. This image would not require to be enriched with a lot of >> things. >> > What is nice there is that it is also a safer path because it may be > less complex.Â > > Theo is working onÂ > - exposing an interface of the VM so that we can query it from the > outside.Â > - I would love to be able to say to the VM to run a number of steps so > that we could test it from outside > But this is really brainstorming.Â >> >> The second mode is the "development mode". For this one I thought >> about exposing a Pharo VM image acting as the Coding and Debugging >> IDE. Here I would opt to expose the full power of Pharo/Smalltalk to >> the developer. >> > The second scenario is what is used in woden and thales used it to > developed the proof of concept with their boats.Â > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4nNtN7XBi8 > >> Does this sound feasible in the way PharoVM is designed? >> > I think that you can really have bindings and drive them from Pharo.Â > Now what is complex is more the reverse control, in the sense that you > want your application to drive Pharo. > I will let VM experts reply to you.Â > > In any case we are really interesting in helping you and getting > information about our lacks and limits.Â >> >>> >>>> On 21 Jan 2020, at 18:29, Roland PlÃ¼ss <roland(a)rptd.ch >>>> <mailto:roland@rptd.ch>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> *From: *Roland PlÃ¼ss <roland(a)rptd.ch <mailto:roland@rptd.ch>> >>>> *Subject: **Embedding pharo in C++* >>>> *Date: *21 January 2020 at 18:29:04 CET >>>> *To: *Pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:Pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> >>>> >>>> >>>> As the topic title mentions I would like to embed pharo into a >>>> GPL/L-GPL licenses software. >>>> >>>> >>> from the license point of view you can do it freely/Â >>>> >>>> I experimented before with a PoC based on GnuSmalltalk which allows >>>> embedding and this worked but GnuSmalltalk is kinda outdated and >>>> even fails to properly compile since some time. >>>> >>>> For this reason I would like to do another PoC but with Pharo to >>>> see if this would be a candidate to use in the project. >>>> >>> >>> We are really interesting in this experiment.Â >>> We would love that it is possible (I have some doubts but this is >>> important that we learn).Â >>> For exampleÂ >>> -Â you can have an image without UI and it will remove a lot of >>> burden (events and others) >>> - we worked on making Pharo silent (not reading, writing to files - >>> there are certainly some problemsÂ >>> but we should improve).Â >>>> >>>> The application is C++ based but a C interface is fine with me too. >>>> Important is that the Pharo VM is fully controlled by the >>>> application not running a pharo image with a VM binary or things >>>> like that. >>>> >>>> Is this possible and if yes how does it work? >>>> >>> I will let the expert reply to you.Â >>> But what I can tell you is that all the work around the headless vm >>> and the idle are steps in that direction.Â >>> We may not be fully ready now but we would love.Â >>> >>> S.Â >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Yours sincerely >>>> PlÃ¼ss Roland >>>> >>>> Leader and Head Programmer >>>> - Game: Epsylon ( http://www.indiedb.com/games/epsylon ) >>>> - Game Engine: Drag[en]gine ( >>>> http://www.indiedb.com/engines/dragengine , >>>> http://dragengine.rptd.ch/wiki ) >>>> - As well as various Blender export scripts und game tools >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> StÃ©phane Ducasse >>> http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/> / >>> http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org/>Â >>> 03 59 35 87 52 >>> Assistant: Julie JonasÂ >>> FAX 03 59 57 78 50 >>> TEL 03 59 35 86 16 >>> S. Ducasse - Inria >>> 40, avenue Halley,Â >>> Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza >>> Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 >>> France >>> >> >> -- >> Yours sincerely >> PlÃ¼ss Roland >> >> Leader and Head Programmer >> - Game: Epsylon ( http://www.indiedb.com/games/epsylon ) >> - Game Engine: Drag[en]gine ( >> http://www.indiedb.com/engines/dragengine , >> http://dragengine.rptd.ch/wiki ) >> - As well as various Blender export scripts und game tools >> >> > > -------------------------------------------- > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.orgÂ > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Julie JonasÂ > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley,Â > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > -- Yours sincerely PlÃ¼ss Roland Leader and Head Programmer - Game: Epsylon ( http://www.indiedb.com/games/epsylon ) - Game Engine: Drag[en]gine ( http://www.indiedb.com/engines/dragengine , http://dragengine.rptd.ch/wiki ) - As well as various Blender export scripts und game tools

Jan. 21, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Short Survey about automatic deprecation rewrites

by ducasse

Thanks! Martin milton juraj should do it too :) S. > On 21 Jan 2020, at 21:34, Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> wrote: > > > From: Alexandre Bergel <alexandre.bergel(a)me.com> > Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Short Survey about automatic deprecation rewrites > Date: 21 January 2020 at 21:34:58 CET > To: Pharo Development List <pharo-dev(a)lists.pharo.org> > Cc: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > > > Just answered! > > Alexandre > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > >> On 21-01-2020, at 13:23, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> We would like to share with you a short survey about the automatic deprecation rewrites that have been around since Pharo 6. >> It will be super useful for us to enhance the support for migrations. >> We estimate it will take ~< 3 minutes to fill. >> >> This survey is aimed at people both *using* Pharo, or writing libraries and frameworks for Pharo. >> If youâre a library/framework maintainer and you know people using your library, would you mind share it with them? >> >> Link to the survey: https://sondages.inria.fr/index.php/133442?lang=en >> >> Thanks a lot! >> Guille, in behalf of the Pharo consortium > > > >

Jan. 21, 2020

Re: [Pharo-dev] Short Survey about automatic deprecation rewrites

by Alexandre Bergel

Just answered! Alexandre -- _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > On 21-01-2020, at 13:23, Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi all, > > We would like to share with you a short survey about the automatic deprecation rewrites that have been around since Pharo 6. > It will be super useful for us to enhance the support for migrations. > We estimate it will take ~< 3 minutes to fill. > > This survey is aimed at people both *using* Pharo, or writing libraries and frameworks for Pharo. > If youâre a library/framework maintainer and you know people using your library, would you mind share it with them? > > Link to the survey: https://sondages.inria.fr/index.php/133442?lang=en > > Thanks a lot! > Guille, in behalf of the Pharo consortium

Jan. 21, 2020

Re: Embedding pharo in C++

by Roland PlÃ¼ss

Looks like you always meet twice in life I guess. You won't remember me but I've been a student of yours once upon time. Nice to see you again, Prof. Ducasse, I had in mind to have the VM running in two modes actually. The first mode is the "runtime mode". This would be the mode used for the released products and does not allow to "directly modify" the image. This mode would only require basic set of classes (frameworks) since the game engine provides a large set of functionality in the module layer so the script layer provides the logic, UI and things like that. This image would not require to be enriched with a lot of things. The second mode is the "development mode". For this one I thought about exposing a Pharo VM image acting as the Coding and Debugging IDE. Here I would opt to expose the full power of Pharo/Smalltalk to the developer. Does this sound feasible in the way PharoVM is designed? > >> On 21 Jan 2020, at 18:29, Roland PlÃ¼ss <roland(a)rptd.ch >> <mailto:roland@rptd.ch>> wrote: >> >> >> *From: *Roland PlÃ¼ss <roland(a)rptd.ch <mailto:roland@rptd.ch>> >> *Subject: **Embedding pharo in C++* >> *Date: *21 January 2020 at 18:29:04 CET >> *To: *Pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org <mailto:Pharo-users@lists.pharo.org> >> >> >> As the topic title mentions I would like to embed pharo into a >> GPL/L-GPL licenses software. >> >> > from the license point of view you can do it freely/Â >> >> I experimented before with a PoC based on GnuSmalltalk which allows >> embedding and this worked but GnuSmalltalk is kinda outdated and even >> fails to properly compile since some time. >> >> For this reason I would like to do another PoC but with Pharo to see >> if this would be a candidate to use in the project. >> > > We are really interesting in this experiment.Â > We would love that it is possible (I have some doubts but this is > important that we learn).Â > For exampleÂ > -Â you can have an image without UI and it will remove a lot of burden > (events and others) > - we worked on making Pharo silent (not reading, writing to files - > there are certainly some problemsÂ > but we should improve).Â >> >> The application is C++ based but a C interface is fine with me too. >> Important is that the Pharo VM is fully controlled by the application >> not running a pharo image with a VM binary or things like that. >> >> Is this possible and if yes how does it work? >> > I will let the expert reply to you.Â > But what I can tell you is that all the work around the headless vm > and the idle are steps in that direction.Â > We may not be fully ready now but we would love.Â > > S.Â >> >> >> -- >> Yours sincerely >> PlÃ¼ss Roland >> >> Leader and Head Programmer >> - Game: Epsylon ( http://www.indiedb.com/games/epsylon ) >> - Game Engine: Drag[en]gine ( >> http://www.indiedb.com/engines/dragengine , >> http://dragengine.rptd.ch/wiki ) >> - As well as various Blender export scripts und game tools >> >> > > -------------------------------------------- > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.orgÂ > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Julie JonasÂ > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley,Â > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > -- Yours sincerely PlÃ¼ss Roland Leader and Head Programmer - Game: Epsylon ( http://www.indiedb.com/games/epsylon ) - Game Engine: Drag[en]gine ( http://www.indiedb.com/engines/dragengine , http://dragengine.rptd.ch/wiki ) - As well as various Blender export scripts und game tools

Jan. 21, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo 8.0 Released!

by Denis Kudriashov

Congrats, guys. Can't wait Pharo 9 release :). Ð¿Ð½, 20 ÑÐ½Ð². 2020 Ð³. Ð² 13:24, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > Dear World and dynamic language lovers: > The time has come for Pharo 8.0 <https://pharo.org/>! > Pharo is a pure object-oriented programming language and a powerful > environment, focused on simplicity and immediate feedback. > > Here are the key highlights of this release: > > - The 64-bit version has become the recommended version for Windows as > it was for Unix and OSX. > - Iceberg, the git client for Pharo, reached its version 1.6.5 with > several improvements and bugfixes. > - Calypso, Pharoâs system browser has new and better refactoring > integrations and AST-based suggestions for class definitions. > - The unified foreign function interface (UnifiedFFI) has been > improved with more support for literal objects, better type coercions, and > more documentation. > - > > Several speed improvements in code searches and compilation. > > In addition, this version includes several previews of new tools such as > the Spec2 GUI framework with native widget integration and the new DrTests > test analysis tool and opens the door for the upcoming headless VMs for > servers and non-blocking FFI. > These are just the more prominent highlights, but the details are just as > important. We have closed a massive amount of issues: 2805 issues! > A comprehensive changelog can be found at > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-changelogs/blob/master/Pharo80Change… > <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-changelogs/blob/master/Pharo60Change…> > ). > While the technical improvements are significant, still the most > impressive fact is that the new code that got in the main Pharo 8.0 image > was contributed by more than 100 people. > Pharo is more than code. It is an exciting project involving energetic > people. We thank all the contributors to this release: > Serge Stinckwich, Myroslava Romaniuk, Hilaire Fernandes, Alexandre Bergel, > David Bajger, Sean DeNigris, Theodore Moen, Dayne Guerra Calle, Juraj > Kubelka, Max Leske, Santiago Jose Dandois, Alistair Grant, Sabine Mana, > Chia Yu, Stephan Eggermont, Milton Mamani, Pavel Krivanek, Ben Coman, > Marcus Denker, Pierre Misse, Christophe Demarey, Allex Oliveira, Andreina > Cota, Theo Rogliano, ClÃ©ment Dutriez, Quentin Ducasse, Cyril Ferlicot, > Cameron Bierwagen, Marek Niepieklo, Clotilde Toullec, Esteban Lorenzano, > Vincent Blondeau, Danil Osipchuk, Eiichiro Ito, Noury Bouraqadi, Oleksandr > Zaytsev, Jason Riggs, Alain Plantec, Kasper Osterbye, Leonardo Cecchi, Chi > Huynh, Santiago Bragagnolo, Antonio Pierro, Pablo Tesone, Tim Mackinnon, > Wesley Duerksen, Wilfred Hughes, John Brant, Evelyn Cusi Lopez, Manuel > Leuenberger, Thomas Dupriez, Norbert Hartl, Torsten Bergmann, Gabriel Omar > Cotelli, Carlo Teixeira, Guille Polito, Torsten Bergman, Damien Pollet, > Holger Hans Peter Freyther, Julio Ripoll, Carolina Hernandez Phillips, > Julien Delplanque, Hugo Lasnier, James Foster, Will Hensel, Erik Stel, Sven > Van Caekenberghe, MartÃn Dias, Tomohiro Oda, Konrad Hinsen, SeÌbastien > Roccaserra, StÃ©phane Ducasse, Denis Kudriashov, Ellis Harris, Steven Costiou > (If you contributed with Pharo 8.0 development in any way and we missed > your name, please send us a mail and we will add you). > Enjoy! > The Pharo Team > Try Pharo: http://pharo.org/download <https://pharo.org/download> > > Learn Pharo: http://pharo.org/documentation > <https://pharo.org/documentation> > > > If you cannot see this, follow this link: > http://pharo.org/news/pharo8.0-released >

Jan. 21, 2020

Embedding pharo in C++

by Roland PlÃ¼ss

As the topic title mentions I would like to embed pharo into a GPL/L-GPL licenses software. I experimented before with a PoC based on GnuSmalltalk which allows embedding and this worked but GnuSmalltalk is kinda outdated and even fails to properly compile since some time. For this reason I would like to do another PoC but with Pharo to see if this would be a candidate to use in the project. The application is C++ based but a C interface is fine with me too. Important is that the Pharo VM is fully controlled by the application not running a pharo image with a VM binary or things like that. Is this possible and if yes how does it work? -- Yours sincerely PlÃ¼ss Roland Leader and Head Programmer - Game: Epsylon ( http://www.indiedb.com/games/epsylon ) - Game Engine: Drag[en]gine ( http://www.indiedb.com/engines/dragengine , http://dragengine.rptd.ch/wiki ) - As well as various Blender export scripts und game tools

Jan. 21, 2020

Short Survey about automatic deprecation rewrites

by Guillermo Polito

Hi all, We would like to share with you a short survey about the automatic deprecation rewrites that have been around since Pharo 6. It will be super useful for us to enhance the support for migrations. We estimate it will take ~< 3 minutes to fill. This survey is aimed at people both *using* Pharo, or writing libraries and frameworks for Pharo. If youâre a library/framework maintainer and you know people using your library, would you mind share it with them? Link to the survey: https://sondages.inria.fr/index.php/133442?lang=en <https://sondages.inria.fr/index.php/133442?lang=en> Thanks a lot! Guille, in behalf of the Pharo consortium

Jan. 21, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo 8.0 Released!

by giorgio ferraris

after long time, I downloaded and opened a Pharo image. Seems you did a great job on these years!! giorgio On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 10:00 AM Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> wrote: > Great work and many thanks to all that supported!! > > Norbert > > > Am 20.01.2020 um 19:01 schrieb ducasse <stepharo(a)netcourrier.com>: > > I would like to also thanks all the consortium members and the association > members so their continuous > support. In addition we would like to thank SchmidtPro and Lifeware for > the contracts we sign to improve Pharo. > Pharo 80 and Pharo 90 will strongly benefit from this effort. > > S. > > On 20 Jan 2020, at 14:23, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear World and dynamic language lovers: > The time has come for Pharo 8.0 <https://pharo.org/>! > Pharo is a pure object-oriented programming language and a powerful > environment, focused on simplicity and immediate feedback. > > Here are the key highlights of this release: > > - The 64-bit version has become the recommended version for Windows as > it was for Unix and OSX. > - Iceberg, the git client for Pharo, reached its version 1.6.5 with > several improvements and bugfixes. > - Calypso, Pharoâs system browser has new and better refactoring > integrations and AST-based suggestions for class definitions. > - The unified foreign function interface (UnifiedFFI) has been > improved with more support for literal objects, better type coercions, and > more documentation. > - > > Several speed improvements in code searches and compilation. > > In addition, this version includes several previews of new tools such as > the Spec2 GUI framework with native widget integration and the new DrTests > test analysis tool and opens the door for the upcoming headless VMs for > servers and non-blocking FFI. > These are just the more prominent highlights, but the details are just as > important. We have closed a massive amount of issues: 2805 issues! > A comprehensive changelog can be found at > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-changelogs/blob/master/Pharo80Change… > <https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-changelogs/blob/master/Pharo60Change…> > ). > While the technical improvements are significant, still the most > impressive fact is that the new code that got in the main Pharo 8.0 image > was contributed by more than 100 people. > Pharo is more than code. It is an exciting project involving energetic > people. We thank all the contributors to this release: > Serge Stinckwich, Myroslava Romaniuk, Hilaire Fernandes, Alexandre Bergel, > David Bajger, Sean DeNigris, Theodore Moen, Dayne Guerra Calle, Juraj > Kubelka, Max Leske, Santiago Jose Dandois, Alistair Grant, Sabine Mana, > Chia Yu, Stephan Eggermont, Milton Mamani, Pavel Krivanek, Ben Coman, > Marcus Denker, Pierre Misse, Christophe Demarey, Allex Oliveira, Andreina > Cota, Theo Rogliano, ClÃ©ment Dutriez, Quentin Ducasse, Cyril Ferlicot, > Cameron Bierwagen, Marek Niepieklo, Clotilde Toullec, Esteban Lorenzano, > Vincent Blondeau, Danil Osipchuk, Eiichiro Ito, Noury Bouraqadi, Oleksandr > Zaytsev, Jason Riggs, Alain Plantec, Kasper Osterbye, Leonardo Cecchi, Chi > Huynh, Santiago Bragagnolo, Antonio Pierro, Pablo Tesone, Tim Mackinnon, > Wesley Duerksen, Wilfred Hughes, John Brant, Evelyn Cusi Lopez, Manuel > Leuenberger, Thomas Dupriez, Norbert Hartl, Torsten Bergmann, Gabriel Omar > Cotelli, Carlo Teixeira, Guille Polito, Torsten Bergman, Damien Pollet, > Holger Hans Peter Freyther, Julio Ripoll, Carolina Hernandez Phillips, > Julien Delplanque, Hugo Lasnier, James Foster, Will Hensel, Erik Stel, Sven > Van Caekenberghe, MartÃn Dias, Tomohiro Oda, Konrad Hinsen, SÃ©bastien > Roccaserra, StÃ©phane Ducasse, Denis Kudriashov, Ellis Harris, Steven Costiou > (If you contributed with Pharo 8.0 development in any way and we missed > your name, please send us a mail and we will add you). > Enjoy! > The Pharo Team > Try Pharo: http://pharo.org/download <https://pharo.org/download> > > Learn Pharo: http://pharo.org/documentation > <https://pharo.org/documentation> > > > If you cannot see this, follow this link: > http://pharo.org/news/pharo8.0-released > > > >

Jan. 21, 2020