- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks. :) Stef On Dec 22, 2010, at 2:35 PM, Charles Monteiro wrote: > > yes, answer is ok. Indeed , namespaces in VW are about name collision nothing > more. It just looks nicer :). I hope I will have the cash and time to go fly > to Europe, the dollar is not so good lately :) and have a more in depth > discussion of this. > > So go give birth, I will await the child. > > -Charles > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Nested-classes-tp3125667p3160624.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Dec. 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by Charles Monteiro

yes, answer is ok. Indeed , namespaces in VW are about name collision nothing more. It just looks nicer :). I hope I will have the cash and time to go fly to Europe, the dollar is not so good lately :) and have a more in depth discussion of this. So go give birth, I will await the child. -Charles -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Nested-classes-tp3125667p3160624.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] minimal pharo image

by Annick Fron

Hi, thank you to all, I have fever those days, I will have a look in January. My best wishes for 2011 ! Le 21 dÃ©c. 2010 Ã 23:47, Mariano Martinez Peck a Ã©crit : > Hi Annick. You should know also that there is a lot of work arround pharo for having smaller images than Pharo kernel. > > The project is known as Seed, and Nicolas (cc'ed) may have someting else to say. > > Here I paste some slides: here > > Video: Seed project: The challenge of creating a Smalltalk kernel > > cheers > > mariano > > On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Pat Maddox <patmaddox(a)me.com> wrote: > On Dec 20, 2010, at 3:20 AM, Annick Fron wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I am looking for a minimal pharo image. Does anyone know how much file space I need for a minimal image with smalltalk servlets and http at least, or even Seaside ? > > > > Annick Fron > > I don't know the answer to that. You can download the PharoCore image from http://pharo-project.org/pharo-download and install the packages you need. > > Pat > >

Dec. 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Charles I do not have the energy to type all the things I would like to say. So if one day we cross at ESUG I can take a blackboard and explain it. Now in a nutshell The problem is that nested classes implies a really different organization and infrastructure. If we late bound classes then we should copy code (binding are shared between litearl and namespace).... I do not want to enter into the details. Then you end up with the question of "ah ok the superclass is not known at compile time" -> mixin infrastructure: how do I avoid to copy all the code (copy down of accessors and only using accessing....). Then about namespaces. I do not like VW namespaces - I do not like class level import. Now the point is not about namespaces per se. the problem is twofold: - do we want real modularity or just something for nameclash. if you want nameclash, I do not see why prefix are not simpler For real modularity it means that you define your code in isolation and bind the name after in a bind statement and that your scope protect you (for example what happen if the super class is now bound to a class that by accident has the same instance variables than the class you just defined). So you see it changes a lot. - Now the infrastructure (compiled, browser..... should not use Smalltalk globals but environment everywhere so that we can explore namespaces and modules design. So all the people wanting namespaces should be clear for what for themselves first? what is the engineering cost? do they are ready to put this cost on the table? or what other improvement is less important? help just to get tools been able to work on a different environment. So if you payed attention we started since 2002 or even before removing all the Smalltalk at: and turning them in self environment, now recently we got Smalltalk globals and even more recently we got SystemNavigation working on environment instead of hardcoding Smalltalk globals... Having envoironment -based tools (without having namespace in the languages since this is a different issue) will support: system bootstrap atomic loading compiler bootstrap better modular system So let me conclude: - we have a vision - we are not sure what is the best solution (namespace vs. true module) - we are working on the infrastructure so that at least we can prototype some solutions So I hope that may anwser is ok because I will not say more. 1.2 is waiting for us to get born. Stef > > Hi, perhaps a bit off topic, but I was wondering from those that brought > Traits to ST, what are their thoughts of the use of nested classes such as > used in Ruby and other languages. > > Good idea? If so should Smalltalk integrate these? Why? Why not ? > > thanks in advance > > -Charles > www.nycsmalltalk.org > -- > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Nested-classes-tp3125667p3125667.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Dec. 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] how to find all occurrances of a string in a package?

by Lukas Renggli

> I'd like to find all the occurrances of the string 'tabs' in a package I've > written. If you really just want the string 'tabs', the string 'tabs' with the quotes is the search expression. If you want to find it as part of a substring use something along: `#string `{ :node | node value isString and: [ node value includesSubString: 'tabs' ] } The `#string is a literal pattern (booleans, characters, arrays, strings, numbers, ...) and `{ ... adds a constraint on the preceding match. Lukas > > Is there something I can read to learn how to do that? > > Thanks > > Paul > > -- Lukas Renggli www.lukas-renggli.ch

Dec. 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by Michael Haupt

Hi, Am 21.12.2010 um 22:45 schrieb Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com>: > just by ignorance.....weren't traits invented in smalltalk? no; Self had them in the Nineties, and they were there before that. The journal version of the ST traits paper has all the references. Best, Michael

Dec. 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by Charles Monteiro

thanks, Eliot had mentioned Newspeak quite a while back ago, it seems that its progressing a bit, installing it now. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Nested-classes-tp3125667p3159951.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by Charles Monteiro

totally agreed, given all the concepts a language like Ruby borrowed from Smalltalk, that community and others refuses to pick up at least on the browser concept, I can't live without it -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Nested-classes-tp3125667p3159946.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 22, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by Igor Stasenko

On 22 December 2010 00:24, Charles Monteiro <charles(a)nycsmalltalk.org> wrote: > > Igor: > > Let me preface that I pay my bills doing VisualWorks by day and we have > namespaces. > > Yeah, I'm not sold on them but several languages have them and so I wondered > what I was missing. In a way if you could use them to constraint the > instantiation of a nested class to only occur within a outer class it may > have some merit i.e. an arm can only exist in the context of a body etc, but > how value does it add ? From my perspective traits adds value and its worth > its cognitive overhead, not sold on nested classes. > me neither > > "you can just do: > Body Leg new. > > and in > Body>>#Leg > answer any class you want to play role as 'Leg'. > > Or you missing double colons in the middle? :) " > > I missed something here ? , in Ruby the syntax is: > > Body::Leg.new > sorry, i was imprecise. I meant to say 'do you miss the colons?'.. (sarcasm) :) > I guess you are saying that in Smalltalk I can just setup the accessors to > return whatever plays the role of a Leg but part of the point is that the > Leg class is defined within a Body class and I guess if you are looking a > source file in Ruby that might be helpful :) > > i.e. > > class Body > > Â Â class Leg > > Â Â Â Â def method1 > > Â Â Â Â end > > Â end > > end > > The fact that Ruby and other language developers are not used to browser > categories maybe makes this helpful in some way. > I don't think so. You can't create a class in smalltalk without assigning a category to it, so, a developer, who just started with smalltalk, are forced to use categories anyways. Yes, and the fact that nested classes systax like in Ruby or other languages are possible, because they using a 'source files' , which is single bloat of code. While in smalltalk, you usually operating with single method at one moment of time, and all browser operations and UI are optimized around that simple idea, so you don't need to scroll endless file with source code to find the method or nested class you are looking for at line #10974. > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Nested-classes-tp3125667p3159885.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

Dec. 21, 2010

Re: [Pharo-users] Nested classes

by Charles Monteiro

Igor: Let me preface that I pay my bills doing VisualWorks by day and we have namespaces. Yeah, I'm not sold on them but several languages have them and so I wondered what I was missing. In a way if you could use them to constraint the instantiation of a nested class to only occur within a outer class it may have some merit i.e. an arm can only exist in the context of a body etc, but how value does it add ? From my perspective traits adds value and its worth its cognitive overhead, not sold on nested classes. "you can just do: Body Leg new. and in Body>>#Leg answer any class you want to play role as 'Leg'. Or you missing double colons in the middle? :) " I missed something here ? , in Ruby the syntax is: Body::Leg.new I guess you are saying that in Smalltalk I can just setup the accessors to return whatever plays the role of a Leg but part of the point is that the Leg class is defined within a Body class and I guess if you are looking a source file in Ruby that might be helpful :) i.e. class Body class Leg def method1 end end end The fact that Ruby and other language developers are not used to browser categories maybe makes this helpful in some way. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Nested-classes-tp3125667p3159885.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 21, 2010