- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 8.0 via get.pharo.org

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 6 Feb 2020, at 08:11, Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen(a)fastmail.net> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > it looks like get.pharo.org suffers from some confusion about its own > files. Here's what happens when I try to download the stable VM for > macOS: > > url https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 | bash [8:01:43] > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed > 100 5320 100 5320 0 0 110k 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 112k > Downloading the latest pharoVM: > http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip > replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: new name: replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [{ENTER}] > replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [if [ "$OS] > replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, > [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [" == "win] > ... > > Closer inspection reveals that the script I get from > > https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 > > downloads the zip file > > http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip > > which contains Pharo.app, not the VM to run from the command > line. > > This looks like a bug, but not in Pharo. So... what's the right place to > report such a bug? No, is not a bug, All that is correct :) Esteban > > Cheers, > Konrad. >

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 8.0 via get.pharo.org

by Esteban Lorenzano

> On 6 Feb 2020, at 09:31, Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen(a)fastmail.net> wrote: > > Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> writes: > >>> which contains Pharo.app, not the VM to run from the command >>> line. >>> >> This the same thing actually. For MacOS it is a bit cumbersome. You can start the vm with >> >> ./Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo > > OK, so the distribution format has changed from Pharo 7? No it doesnât :) What you are getting looks like an error that happen when you try to execute zeroconf on top of an already existing zeroconf. Can you try it on a clean directory? Esteban > What I got > before is a directory "pharo-vm" containing Pharo.app, plus two > scripts "pharo" and "pharo-ui" that facilitate execution from the > command line. > > If the distribution format has indeed changed, then there's a bug in the > script that unpacks the zip file, and the documentation on > http://get.pharo.org/ is outdated as well. So my question remains the > same: what's the best way to report such bugs? > > Cheers, > Konrad. >

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 8.0 via get.pharo.org

by Konrad Hinsen

Norbert Hartl <norbert(a)hartl.name> writes: >> which contains Pharo.app, not the VM to run from the command >> line. >> > This the same thing actually. For MacOS it is a bit cumbersome. You can start the vm with > > ./Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo OK, so the distribution format has changed from Pharo 7? What I got before is a directory "pharo-vm" containing Pharo.app, plus two scripts "pharo" and "pharo-ui" that facilitate execution from the command line. If the distribution format has indeed changed, then there's a bug in the script that unpacks the zip file, and the documentation on http://get.pharo.org/ is outdated as well. So my question remains the same: what's the best way to report such bugs? Cheers, Konrad.

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

by Esteban Lorenzano

So, Iâm going to say this and then I will close this thread: Regardless what you think about Pharo and its heritage and how it should be called, this is a list to talk about this particular artefact that is Pharo. You can say: There is Smalltalk, and there is Pharo who is a part of it. Thatâs fine. Then let it phrase it like this: this list is not to talk about the whole Smalltalk universe but this particular implementation. In fact, this is a list for "pharo usersâ (hence its name), to let them share experiences and ask for help. And this is why is âoff-topicâ anything that is talking about other stuff. Now, everybody can do as they please (I will not enter on criticising otherâs work here, they can do what they believe is the best). But they cannot do as they please in the house of others. And this is the house of Pharo Users. So, the rules are: we talk about *pharo usage* here. We can off-topic in some way, as long as the off-topic is restricted. And thatâs all. Esteban Ps: again, *is not the point to argue about what you think is Pharo or not*. Please stop discussing that. We (the board) do not care about that. We (the board) decided a lot of time ago that we will take the Smalltalk inheritance in the Alan Kayâs way: we do not do âSmalltalk", we bootstrap something new, that may resemble Smalltalk (whatever that is), that may share a lot of things with Smalltalk (even syntax and some libraries), but it is still other thing. Pps: It was me who said to Horrido âyou are welcome here, as long as your campaign does not eats the whole listâ (word more, word less, this is what I said). Well, now this is eating the whole list, and it has to end. > On 6 Feb 2020, at 00:13, TedVanGaalen <tedvga(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Yes, Esteban, > > maybe I was a bit harsh, in a sense you're right too, > However it becomes blurred then wat Smalltalk really is. > (e.g. I recommend Pharo as Smalltalk to others) > > I would prefer -but who am I- > that all Smalltalk dialects should implement > the ANSI standard as a minimum and at least on > that level stay compatible. > New developments should be built on top of that. > and get incorporated in the ANSI standard at certain points in time. > So that everybody on this planet can work with one Smalltalk. > That makes sense, don't you agree? > > They came very close to that with PLs like COBOL, ANSI C etc. > > Standardization is industrial. No need > to further explain this I guess. > > The f. devil lives in the details, as they say, > and it is exactly those little differences > that makes it very hard to port packages > from one Smalltalk dialect to another. > > In the current situation, that is where everybody wants to > go their own unique way, this has the consequence that > if one Smalltalk dialect disappears (e.g. Squeak, Pharo, > Visualworks, whatever) this would render packages > with often tons of work(e.g. Roassal ?) > worthless because they don't load/work in other Smalltalk > implementations/dialects without rewriting and retesting > the package again. This should not be the case. > > Again, I am impressed by Pharo and really like it. > but for me it goes too far to say that Pharo isn't Smalltalk. > > As a user, I edit classes methods etc in exactly the same > way (syntax) as in most other Smalltalk dialects. > If you would take out the Smalltalk from Pharo all is left > are a few bolts and nuts rendered useless: nothing > to mount it on. > > (Still the differences are currently not that big: > if I can file in st files from Squeak from 2010 and the > only thing I had to change was a datetime property) > (yet another reason I don't use traits is to remain compatible > as much as possible between different Smalltalk implementations) > > my 4 cents. :o) > Regards, thank you. > TedvG > btw > Hard to convince people about this: > Also. nothing should be deprecated. > Old sources should remain compatible. > (Not like in Swift, where I had to rewrite parts of my > apps nearly every year because of deprecation fever) > > > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 8.0 via get.pharo.org

by Norbert Hartl

> Am 06.02.2020 um 08:11 schrieb Konrad Hinsen <konrad.hinsen(a)fastmail.net>: > > Hi everyone, > > it looks like get.pharo.org suffers from some confusion about its own > files. Here's what happens when I try to download the stable VM for > macOS: > > url https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 | bash [8:01:43] > % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current > Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed > 100 5320 100 5320 0 0 110k 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 112k > Downloading the latest pharoVM: > http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip > replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: new name: replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [{ENTER}] > replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [if [ "$OS] > replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, > [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [" == "win] > ... > > Closer inspection reveals that the script I get from > > https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 > > downloads the zip file > > http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip > > which contains Pharo.app, not the VM to run from the command > line. > This the same thing actually. For MacOS it is a bit cumbersome. You can start the vm with ./Pharo.app/Contents/MacOS/Pharo A .app in MacOS is just a directory that has .app extension which makes the finde to display as a single file with an icon. Hope this helps, Norbert > This looks like a bug, but not in Pharo. So... what's the right place to > report such a bug? > > Cheers, > Konrad. >

Feb. 6, 2020

Pharo 8.0 via get.pharo.org

by Konrad Hinsen

Hi everyone, it looks like get.pharo.org suffers from some confusion about its own files. Here's what happens when I try to download the stable VM for macOS: url https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 | bash [8:01:43] % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed 100 5320 100 5320 0 0 110k 0 --:--:-- --:--:-- --:--:-- 112k Downloading the latest pharoVM: http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/_CodeSignature/CodeResources? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: new name: replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [{ENTER}] replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [if [ "$OS] replace pharo-vm/Pharo.app/Contents/Info.plist? [y]es, [n]o, [A]ll, [N]one, [r]ename: error: invalid response [" == "win] ... Closer inspection reveals that the script I get from https://get.pharo.org/64/vm80 downloads the zip file http://files.pharo.org/get-files/80/pharo64-mac-stable.zip which contains Pharo.app, not the VM to run from the command line. This looks like a bug, but not in Pharo. So... what's the right place to report such a bug? Cheers, Konrad.

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo image processing library

by Kasper Ãsterbye

Cool! I like that readme. Best, Kasper On 6 February 2020 at 03.26.05, Pablo Navarro (pablo1n7(a)gmail.com) wrote: Hi everyone I put available my code for Image Form in GitHub ( https://github.com/pablo1n7/ImageForm) This afternoon, I did the operations with kernels :D. It's not 100% complete, I'm still working on it. I hope you find it useful and any suggestion is welcomed Best Regards, Pablo. El 25 de ene. de 2020 11:33 -0300, Oleksandr Zaitsev <olk.zaytsev(a)gmail.com>, escribiÃ³: Hello Pablo, Is the code of your library available on GitHub? Could you share the link please? Oleks -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

by horrido

I've never posted to /r/smalltalk. There's no point in preaching to the choir. I posted to /r/programming and everybody there tried to lynch me. Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list wrote > FWIW I am one of the mods of /r/smalltalk - happy to have material > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Feb 5, 2020, at 13:12, horrido < > horrido.hobbies@ > > wrote: >> >> Reddit is a strange bird. I have found more resistance to Smalltalk there >> than from any other source on the planet. Moreover, those people *really* >> don't appreciate me evangelizing anything. Consequently, I've avoided >> Reddit >> like the plague. >> >> I don't know what kind of readership exists at Reddit, but they are >> openly >> hostile. So you'll forgive me if I don't lend much credence to what >> Redditors say. >> >> >> >> Pavel Krivanek-3 wrote >>> st 5. 2. 2020 v 20:48 odesÃlatel horrido < >> >>> horrido.hobbies@ >> >>> > napsal: >>> >>>> I learned a long time ago that you can't please everybody. I've heard >>>> the >>>> critics about my evangelism. I've also heard the praise. >>>> >>>> So what am I supposed to do? Listen to the critics and ignore the fans? >>>> >>>> If you're an evangelist, you have to develop a thick skin and follow >>>> your >>>> heart. Otherwise, get out of the kitchen... >>>> >>> >>> You are a victim of your own strong confirmation bias. I hardly can >>> break >>> it but I just want to point out that in the mentioned discussion, there >>> was >>> no fan of you (and there were more people complaining than the two I >>> mentioned). >>> >>> Pavel Krivanek-3 wrote >>>>> st 5. 2. 2020 v 19:02 odesÃlatel horrido < >>>> >>>>> horrido.hobbies@ >>>> >>>>> > napsal: >>>>> >>>>>>> You want to take the Smalltalk heritage as a definition, thatâs ok. >>>> We >>>>>> donât, and thatâs ok too. Is about what we want to do. >>>>>> >>>>>> Who's "we"? >>>>>> >>>>>> Last time I checked, nobody owns Pharo. Pharo is not a bunch of core >>>>>> developers; it's a community. And I believe there are many Pharoers >>>> who >>>>>> share my view. >>>>>> >>>>>> Since I'm a Smalltalk evangelist and not a Pharo evangelist, I guess >>>>>> I >>>>>> shouldn't ever mention Pharo in my blog. After all, if it's not >>>>>> Smalltalk, >>>>>> why should I promote it??? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Pharo 8.0 release Reddit discussion included some feedback you >>>>> may appreciate: >>>>> >>>>> "Thanks. Does this Pharo release removes feature "Richard Kenneth >>>>> Eng"? >>>>> That was the only feature in detriment to such an excellent >>>>> environment >>>> as >>>>> Pharo." >>>>> >>>>> "I really like the idea of pharo's features and smalltalk is quite >>>>> interesting, but I can't help but be put off by the insanely stupid >>>>> marketing culture around it. Most articles about it exaggerate way too >>>>> much >>>>> and seem like they're written by people who were paid to write about >>>> it. >>>>> Or >>>>> maybe I'm reading Medium-cancer too much." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> In fact, this is disastrous for my JRMPC competition since it's based >>>>>> entirely on Pharo. I'm promoting Smalltalk but pushing Pharo on all >>>> the >>>>>> participating teams??? What the f*ck am I doing?!! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] About "it's not pharo but smalltalk"

by Todd Blanchard

FWIW I am one of the mods of /r/smalltalk - happy to have material Sent from my iPhone > On Feb 5, 2020, at 13:12, horrido <horrido.hobbies(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Reddit is a strange bird. I have found more resistance to Smalltalk there > than from any other source on the planet. Moreover, those people *really* > don't appreciate me evangelizing anything. Consequently, I've avoided Reddit > like the plague. > > I don't know what kind of readership exists at Reddit, but they are openly > hostile. So you'll forgive me if I don't lend much credence to what > Redditors say. > > > > Pavel Krivanek-3 wrote >> st 5. 2. 2020 v 20:48 odesÃlatel horrido < > >> horrido.hobbies@ > >> > napsal: >> >>> I learned a long time ago that you can't please everybody. I've heard the >>> critics about my evangelism. I've also heard the praise. >>> >>> So what am I supposed to do? Listen to the critics and ignore the fans? >>> >>> If you're an evangelist, you have to develop a thick skin and follow your >>> heart. Otherwise, get out of the kitchen... >>> >> >> You are a victim of your own strong confirmation bias. I hardly can break >> it but I just want to point out that in the mentioned discussion, there >> was >> no fan of you (and there were more people complaining than the two I >> mentioned). >> >> Pavel Krivanek-3 wrote >>>> st 5. 2. 2020 v 19:02 odesÃlatel horrido < >>> >>>> horrido.hobbies@ >>> >>>> > napsal: >>>> >>>>>> You want to take the Smalltalk heritage as a definition, thatâs ok. >>> We >>>>> donât, and thatâs ok too. Is about what we want to do. >>>>> >>>>> Who's "we"? >>>>> >>>>> Last time I checked, nobody owns Pharo. Pharo is not a bunch of core >>>>> developers; it's a community. And I believe there are many Pharoers >>> who >>>>> share my view. >>>>> >>>>> Since I'm a Smalltalk evangelist and not a Pharo evangelist, I guess I >>>>> shouldn't ever mention Pharo in my blog. After all, if it's not >>>>> Smalltalk, >>>>> why should I promote it??? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Pharo 8.0 release Reddit discussion included some feedback you >>>> may appreciate: >>>> >>>> "Thanks. Does this Pharo release removes feature "Richard Kenneth Eng"? >>>> That was the only feature in detriment to such an excellent environment >>> as >>>> Pharo." >>>> >>>> "I really like the idea of pharo's features and smalltalk is quite >>>> interesting, but I can't help but be put off by the insanely stupid >>>> marketing culture around it. Most articles about it exaggerate way too >>>> much >>>> and seem like they're written by people who were paid to write about >>> it. >>>> Or >>>> maybe I'm reading Medium-cancer too much." >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> In fact, this is disastrous for my JRMPC competition since it's based >>>>> entirely on Pharo. I'm promoting Smalltalk but pushing Pharo on all >>> the >>>>> participating teams??? What the f*ck am I doing?!! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >>> >>> > > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Feb. 6, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo image processing library

by Pablo Navarro

Hi everyone I put available my code for Image Form in GitHub (https://github.com/pablo1n7/ImageForm) This afternoon, I did the operations with kernels :D. It's not 100% complete, I'm still working on it. I hope you find it useful and any suggestion is welcomed Best Regards, Pablo. El 25 de ene. de 2020 11:33 -0300, Oleksandr Zaitsev <olk.zaytsev(a)gmail.com>, escribiÃ³: > Hello Pablo, > > Is the code of your library available on GitHub? > Could you share the link please? > > Oleks > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >

Feb. 6, 2020