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Re: [Pharo-users] ++ -- += -= ...

by Igor Stasenko

On 16 April 2011 13:32, Ted F.A. van Gaalen <tedvga(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi there. > > I am probably not the first, and will not be > the last person to come up > with this suggestion, neverTheLess: > > To increment a numeric value I would like to write: > > aNum := 1. > aNum ++. Â Â Â Â Â Â to increment it > aNum --. Â Â Â Â Â Â to decrement it > this is wrong smalltalk syntax. ++ and -- are binary messages, which means you should pass an argument to message, i.e: num ++ x num -- y. If you want unary messages, use word: num increment num decrement unless of course you want to extend the number of special operators, which are only: ':=' for assignment and '^' for return. So, you wanna increase the number of syntax rules to either introduce new operators (++/--) or add reserved words (increment/decrement). But if we follow that road, then next day one would argue why we don't have operators like +=, *=, -= and so on.. And then smalltalk will slowly turn into C dialect, where all language semantics available through syntax, instead through implementation & message sends. Smalltalk having very small number of syntax rules comparing to other high level languages. And this is one of its best characteristics , among the rest. So i prefer it to be staying this way. > instead of: > aNum := aNum + 1. > > For reasons of efficiency and readability. > > Why? > Most, if not all, of today's computer processors > ( they used to be called microprocessors :o) > have INCrement en DECrement instructions, > which are much more efficient than addition > and subtraction instructions. > (less clock cycles, perhaps even just one) > > Of course, the work should to be done by primitives, > which directly utilizes the processor's INC, DEC instructions. > > So, wouldn't it be convenient to implement these ++ and --- > methods in Pharo? and VM. Â I am not sure, but I suspect also a number > of system classes e.g. in Â Â do: [:i|...] Â would perform better, > wenn this method/ instruction is supported? > > ? > > Kind Regards > Ted > Currently making/learning Pharo/Seaside app. > > -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

April 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] ++ -- += -= ...

by Andres Valloud

64 bit x86 processors got rid of INC/DEC in favor of efficiency of other instructions and in favor of adding the REX prefix... On 4/16/11 4:32 , Ted F.A. van Gaalen wrote: > Hi there. > > I am probably not the first, and will not be > the last person to come up > with this suggestion, neverTheLess: > > To increment a numeric value I would like to write: > > aNum := 1. > aNum ++. to increment it > aNum --. to decrement it > > instead of: > aNum := aNum + 1. > > For reasons of efficiency and readability. > > Why? > Most, if not all, of today's computer processors > ( they used to be called microprocessors :o) > have INCrement en DECrement instructions, > which are much more efficient than addition > and subtraction instructions. > (less clock cycles, perhaps even just one) > > Of course, the work should to be done by primitives, > which directly utilizes the processor's INC, DEC instructions. > > So, wouldn't it be convenient to implement these ++ and --- > methods in Pharo? and VM. I am not sure, but I suspect also a number > of system classes e.g. in do: [:i|...] would perform better, > wenn this method/ instruction is supported? > > ? > > Kind Regards > Ted > Currently making/learning Pharo/Seaside app. > > . >

April 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] ++ -- += -= ...

by Tobias Pape

Hi, Am 2011-04-16 um 13:32 schrieb Ted F.A. van Gaalen: > Hi there. > > I am probably not the first, and will not be > the last person to come up > with this suggestion, neverTheLess: > > To increment a numeric value I would like to write: > > aNum := 1. > aNum ++. to increment it > aNum --. to decrement it > > instead of: > aNum := aNum + 1. > > For reasons of efficiency and readability. > > Why? > Most, if not all, of today's computer processors > ( they used to be called microprocessors :o) > have INCrement en DECrement instructions, > which are much more efficient than addition > and subtraction instructions. > (less clock cycles, perhaps even just one) > Interestingly, this is already done when using a JIT, eg, the CogVM. But what is more important is, that in Smalltalk, Integers are unmodifiable. There are different concepts: in C, i++ means, "increase the number in the memory cell that i represents" however, in Smalltalk, i ++ would mean "send the object that is stored in i the message #++" And if a number, eg 42, is stored in i, then this would mean "send 42 the message #++" but what should the result be? should 42 transform itself into 43? Moreover, it is bad style in Object-Oriented programming to rely on side effects of a message: You're implicitly saying "I want the state of the object in i to change and rely on it later-on" whereas i := i + 1 is explicitly saying "I want a number greater than i and work with it later-on" > Of course, the work should to be done by primitives, > which directly utilizes the processor's INC, DEC instructions. > As I said this is subject to a JIT. > So, wouldn't it be convenient to implement these ++ and --- > methods in Pharo? and VM. I am not sure, but I suspect also a number > of system classes e.g. in do: [:i|...] would perform better, > wenn this method/ instruction is supported? > I don't think so. So Long, -Tobias

April 16, 2011

++ -- += -= ...

by Ted F.A. van Gaalen

Hi there. I am probably not the first, and will not be the last person to come up with this suggestion, neverTheLess: To increment a numeric value I would like to write: aNum := 1. aNum ++. to increment it aNum --. to decrement it instead of: aNum := aNum + 1. For reasons of efficiency and readability. Why? Most, if not all, of today's computer processors ( they used to be called microprocessors :o) have INCrement en DECrement instructions, which are much more efficient than addition and subtraction instructions. (less clock cycles, perhaps even just one) Of course, the work should to be done by primitives, which directly utilizes the processor's INC, DEC instructions. So, wouldn't it be convenient to implement these ++ and --- methods in Pharo? and VM. I am not sure, but I suspect also a number of system classes e.g. in do: [:i|...] would perform better, wenn this method/ instruction is supported? ? Kind Regards Ted Currently making/learning Pharo/Seaside app.

April 16, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] For reference: what's aBuilder when you see <worldMenu>

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

read the setting chapter :) On Apr 16, 2011, at 12:22 AM, DougEdmunds wrote: > When I got to methods involving menus and using pragmas, i.e., words in > pointy brackets, such as , I ran across most of them using the parameter > 'aBuilder'. > > Since there is no class 'Builder' the question becomes what is 'aBuilder'? > Since the core contains somewhere around 60 classes that contain the word > 'Builder', this is not easily answered. > > Thanks to the CollaborActive Book, there is an answer. > Section 3.4 currently states: > "The class WorldState builds the world menu using a PragmaMenuBuilder passed > to all methods defining the pragma." > > So presumably, wherever there is 'aBuilder', mentally change that to > 'aPragmaMenuBuilder', and you will be able to start figuring out what things > like > > (aBuilder item: #System) > order: 3.0; > > are talking about. For example, since PragmaMenuBuilder does not have a > method 'item:' but it inherits from MenuRegistration, which does, you can > look at the class MenuRegistration to figure out what 'aBuilder' is doing > with #System, before whatever that is does something with order: :) > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/For-reference-what-s-aBuilder-when-you-see-worldMenu-… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

April 16, 2011

For reference: what's aBuilder when you see <worldMenu>

by DougEdmunds

When I got to methods involving menus and using pragmas, i.e., words in pointy brackets, such as , I ran across most of them using the parameter 'aBuilder'. Since there is no class 'Builder' the question becomes what is 'aBuilder'? Since the core contains somewhere around 60 classes that contain the word 'Builder', this is not easily answered. Thanks to the CollaborActive Book, there is an answer. Section 3.4 currently states: "The class WorldState builds the world menu using a PragmaMenuBuilder passed to all methods defining the pragma." So presumably, wherever there is 'aBuilder', mentally change that to 'aPragmaMenuBuilder', and you will be able to start figuring out what things like (aBuilder item: #System) order: 3.0; are talking about. For example, since PragmaMenuBuilder does not have a method 'item:' but it inherits from MenuRegistration, which does, you can look at the class MenuRegistration to figure out what 'aBuilder' is doing with #System, before whatever that is does something with order: :) -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/For-reference-what-s-aBuilder-when-you-see-worldMenu-… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

April 15, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-project] Are you a Pharo contributor ??? [WAS] Re: Pharo Open Source Smalltalk â Contributors

by laurent laffont

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck < marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Serge Stinckwich < > serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> I think it's a great idea to have a picture and short description. >> Maybe we could have something more uniform with the same size for each >> picture ? >> > > Yes sure, and maybe put a kind of table were each of us is a row, and all > data is one column and the picture is another one. So they are aligned. > We should just adapt the CSS. I don't know how to modify it in CMSBox. Laurent > But first the first :) Get the contributors and then we take care about > the make up ehehe > > Laurent may be able to take care about the makeup ? > > Cheers > > Mariano > > >> Regards, >> >> On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck >> <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> > if true...then what are you wainting for? >> > >> > http://www.pharo-project.org/community/contributors >> > >> > Send you data and nice picture :) >> > >> > Seriously, it is important for marketing among other things. Imagine you >> > arrive to a new project...it is good to see that there are several >> > contributing to it. Probably this page is not the best, but is something >> > more. >> > >> > Mariano >> > >> > >> > >> > On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 8:18 PM, laurent laffont < >> laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Added ! >> >> Laurent. >> >> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Juan Vuletich <juan(a)jvuletich.org> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Hi Laurent, >> >>> >> >>> I'd like to be added to >> >>> http://www.pharo-project.org/community/contributors . My picture is >> >>> attached. Description text could be "Contributed the default >> anti-aliased >> >>> fonts and the SimpleMorphic UI framework. Web page at >> www.jvuletich.org". >> >>> >> >>> Thank you. >> >>> >> >>> Cheers, >> >>> Juan Vuletich >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Mariano >> > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Serge Stinckwich >> UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam >> Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk >> http://doesnotunderstand.org/ >> > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > >

April 14, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-project] Are you a Pharo contributor ??? [WAS] Re: Pharo Open Source Smalltalk â Contributors

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Serge Stinckwich < serge.stinckwich(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I think it's a great idea to have a picture and short description. > Maybe we could have something more uniform with the same size for each > picture ? > Yes sure, and maybe put a kind of table were each of us is a row, and all data is one column and the picture is another one. So they are aligned. But first the first :) Get the contributors and then we take care about the make up ehehe Laurent may be able to take care about the makeup ? Cheers Mariano > Regards, > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck > <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > if true...then what are you wainting for? > > > > http://www.pharo-project.org/community/contributors > > > > Send you data and nice picture :) > > > > Seriously, it is important for marketing among other things. Imagine you > > arrive to a new project...it is good to see that there are several > > contributing to it. Probably this page is not the best, but is something > > more. > > > > Mariano > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 8:18 PM, laurent laffont < > laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com> > > wrote: > >> > >> Added ! > >> Laurent. > >> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Juan Vuletich <juan(a)jvuletich.org> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Laurent, > >>> > >>> I'd like to be added to > >>> http://www.pharo-project.org/community/contributors . My picture is > >>> attached. Description text could be "Contributed the default > anti-aliased > >>> fonts and the SimpleMorphic UI framework. Web page at > www.jvuletich.org". > >>> > >>> Thank you. > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> Juan Vuletich > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Mariano > > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > -- > Serge Stinckwich > UMI UMMISCO 209 (IRD/UPMC), Hanoi, Vietnam > Every DSL ends up being Smalltalk > http://doesnotunderstand.org/ > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

April 14, 2011

Are you a Pharo contributor ??? [WAS] Re: [Pharo-project] Pharo Open Source Smalltalk â Contributors

by Mariano Martinez Peck

if true...then what are you wainting for? http://www.pharo-project.org/community/contributors Send you data and nice picture :) Seriously, it is important for marketing among other things. Imagine you arrive to a new project...it is good to see that there are several contributing to it. Probably this page is not the best, but is something more. Mariano On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 8:18 PM, laurent laffont <laurent.laffont(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Added ! > > Laurent. > > On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 6:45 PM, Juan Vuletich <juan(a)jvuletich.org> wrote: > >> Hi Laurent, >> >> I'd like to be added to >> http://www.pharo-project.org/community/contributors . My picture is >> attached. Description text could be "Contributed the default anti-aliased >> fonts and the SimpleMorphic UI framework. Web page at www.jvuletich.org". >> >> Thank you. >> >> Cheers, >> Juan Vuletich >> > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

April 14, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] mouse buttons in Linux, deleting certain morphs

by Markus Schlager

On Wed, 13 Apr 2011, Sven Crouse wrote: > changes the modifier key, but I'm looking not to have to use a modifier > with a multiple button mouse. Which is something I'd appreciate as well. Markus

April 14, 2011