- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-project] [Metacello] Which packages should we include of metacello for Pharo 1.3?

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> wrote: > On 04/24/2011 12:03 PM, Mariano Martinez Peck wrote: > >> >> >> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 5:59 PM, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com >> <mailto:dhenrich@vmware.com>> wrote: >> >> Mariano, >> >> (excluding the OB-Metallo menu items) ... >> >> >> hi dale. What does it mean exactly? If right now I am loading : >> #('Metacello-Core' 'Tutorial' 'UI' 'Metacello-ProfStef' >> 'Metacello-Help'); and #('Tests') >> you mean I should remove the group 'UI' ? >> > > Yes ... I don't know if anyone beyond me ever used them and eventually they > will be replaced by the MetacelloBrowser ... if you think folks were using > the Metacello menus, then leave them in .... > > I never heard anyone using Metacello-OB so I think we can remove them. However, if they are working, we can just let them in case someone still use them, and when MetacelloBrowser comes in, we remove Metacello-OB. Do you know more or less if Metacello-OB is working or no? is anyone using Metacello-OB? speak up now! :) Thanks -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] An small "interactive art" project in Pharo, from a newbie

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

you can create a Morph and change its color using the step method. and at the end delete it. It should be quite simple to do that and a good exercise for you to learn. Start with BorderedMorph new openInWorld. Stef On Apr 25, 2011, at 12:53 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi Stef, > > El 24/04/11 04:01, StÃ©phane Ducasse escribiÃ³: >> Thanks offray. >> >> I think that you should have a look at the work on ricardo moran and use the board from pharo. >> Now this is working well. >> >> Stef > > I have already seen that (the Physical etoys project). Now I want to > make something not related with physical computing, but just making some > graphic appear at a random position vanish slowly and load a > twitter/identica feed. Any pointer on where I can find this solution? > > Thanks > > Offray > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNtKoCAAoJEGiex2828ICwrsYH/RgrOvhMABG0htt3TjAXiGzt > LwdtzZG/xTJBawQkflHDipSjbypsIkInkCnTM+9yDgA+grkdxoGxdN5D7W1MfU/r > Y6XE7/7sSKEmbCHVXGVeJ6LllxqsEDK+UDqcEIr1eDAPfmb6NJulYS5AFna/4xTg > I83FMPNAWQ9xWf8ggVrpAOOpvKal4X3HzCFbST6hiwcmxJDvNfEUCc1FuTp3DOQ9 > rtBsGSkbtFEOGCePSqMp5HXhxT22PmSd5FpnLtujRhoVAZaRdIFWiI/SadYPNsez > C+us+fprenBeuCAtjSqQM0KjI686uLslK9tLPedvgPjW/lRr2UlMFv/FoFv4krI= > =sdJs > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >

April 25, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] An small "interactive art" project in Pharo, from a newbie

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 12:53 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas < offray(a)riseup.net> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi Stef, > > El 24/04/11 04:01, StÃ©phane Ducasse escribiÃ³: > > Thanks offray. > > > > I think that you should have a look at the work on ricardo moran and use > the board from pharo. > > Now this is working well. > > > > Stef > > I have already seen that (the Physical etoys project). Now I want to > make something not related with physical computing, but just making some > graphic appear at a random position vanish slowly and load a > twitter/identica feed. Any pointer on where I can find this solution? > > I have no idea, but I cc'ed pharo-dev where you may have more chance. cheers mariano > Thanks > > Offray > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNtKoCAAoJEGiex2828ICwrsYH/RgrOvhMABG0htt3TjAXiGzt > LwdtzZG/xTJBawQkflHDipSjbypsIkInkCnTM+9yDgA+grkdxoGxdN5D7W1MfU/r > Y6XE7/7sSKEmbCHVXGVeJ6LllxqsEDK+UDqcEIr1eDAPfmb6NJulYS5AFna/4xTg > I83FMPNAWQ9xWf8ggVrpAOOpvKal4X3HzCFbST6hiwcmxJDvNfEUCc1FuTp3DOQ9 > rtBsGSkbtFEOGCePSqMp5HXhxT22PmSd5FpnLtujRhoVAZaRdIFWiI/SadYPNsez > C+us+fprenBeuCAtjSqQM0KjI686uLslK9tLPedvgPjW/lRr2UlMFv/FoFv4krI= > =sdJs > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

April 24, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] An small "interactive art" project in Pharo, from a newbie

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Stef, El 24/04/11 04:01, StÃ©phane Ducasse escribiÃ³: > Thanks offray. > > I think that you should have a look at the work on ricardo moran and use the board from pharo. > Now this is working well. > > Stef I have already seen that (the Physical etoys project). Now I want to make something not related with physical computing, but just making some graphic appear at a random position vanish slowly and load a twitter/identica feed. Any pointer on where I can find this solution? Thanks Offray -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNtKoCAAoJEGiex2828ICwrsYH/RgrOvhMABG0htt3TjAXiGzt LwdtzZG/xTJBawQkflHDipSjbypsIkInkCnTM+9yDgA+grkdxoGxdN5D7W1MfU/r Y6XE7/7sSKEmbCHVXGVeJ6LllxqsEDK+UDqcEIr1eDAPfmb6NJulYS5AFna/4xTg I83FMPNAWQ9xWf8ggVrpAOOpvKal4X3HzCFbST6hiwcmxJDvNfEUCc1FuTp3DOQ9 rtBsGSkbtFEOGCePSqMp5HXhxT22PmSd5FpnLtujRhoVAZaRdIFWiI/SadYPNsez C+us+fprenBeuCAtjSqQM0KjI686uLslK9tLPedvgPjW/lRr2UlMFv/FoFv4krI= =sdJs -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

April 24, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [Metacello] Re: Metacellobrowser feedback

by Dale Henrichs

Johan, Just one point ... the ui for MetacelloBrowser is not expected to be complete at this point ... I think there are still a number of commands that need to be added before we can start considering what the final ui will look like ... once we have a feel for the set of commands that should be included and the type of work flow we are supporting (neither of which has been decided upon) we will be able to fine tune the ui and there is a lot of work that needs to be done ... You're comments about the fact that you had difficulty figuring out how to call your #loadDefault method are where we need to be focussing our efforts ... this is a missing piece of functionality that needs to be addressed. Spiffing up a ui _before_ you've decided on the final set of commands to be supported is the same type of mistake you make when making a premature optimization of an algorithm ... For me the biggest problem that I struggle with is the number of times that I must break out of the MetacelloBrowser to do work with Monticello Browser windows...I have included a number of commands in the MetacelloBrowser that allow you to perform many of the MonticelloBrowser functions and I see the need to add more ... So I begin thinking that maybe these functions should be incorporated into the MetacelloBrowser ... allow the direct viewing of the repository/history .... I'm also not happy with having to go the browser to see certain bits of information from the Metacello spec (like the description) .... I think we need to incorporate that as well ... We need major improvement in the ui for creating a configuration ... major work needs to be done there ... ... and more ... Dale On Apr 23, 2011, at 12:57 PM, Johan Fabry wrote: > > My 2 cents on this topic: user interface consistency cannot be underestimated. I called these 'leds' unit-test icons because thats what they are (in my mind and I guess also for a lot of other people). So using them for anything else is not a good idea at all. Alex' proposal seems (to me) a much better idea. > > On 23 Apr 2011, at 13:05, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > >> I agree with you. The browser is not yet a replacement for manual editing. The validation mechanism has to be present. >> >> Maybe the led can be traded with a red bold font for the project name. The meaning of the red font is clear and unambiguous. The led can then instead be used for the test. How does that sound? >> >> I will work on the test soon. This week end maybe. >> >> Alexandre >> >> Le 23 avr. 2011 Ã 11:43, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> a Ã©crit : >> >>> Alexandre, >>> >>> I think the 'run tests' command is great idea ... >>> >>> Validation wil be important as long as folks edit configs by hand, so validation needs to be part of the tool set (whether automatic or manual) ... >>> >>> Just because people don't do it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be doing it ... it is very easy to introduce an error that won't show up until you try to use the configuration, so validation is important... >>> >>> I would prefer to see it automatic which then begs the question of how to notify the user that there is a validation issue and which configuration/version has the issue ... presumably we have a set of feedback options that we can use ... >>> >>> Dale > > -- > Johan Fabry > jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > > >

April 24, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] An small "interactive art" project in Pharo, from a newbie

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Thanks offray. I think that you should have a look at the work on ricardo moran and use the board from pharo. Now this is working well. Stef On Apr 24, 2011, at 4:03 AM, Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all, > > First thanks for Pharo. Is a really nice clean innovative environment I > have just pointed it to some java teachers/users and they like the > overall look and feel. > > Now some small context: I had taken a short seminar on interactive art. > We have used vvvv[1] to make some small experiments and the idea was to > use arduino with it, but being it windows only I though in exploring > something easy to use and then I found Physical Etoys from Richo's team. > > [1] http://vvvv.org > [2] http://tecnodacta.com.ar/gira/projects/physical-etoys/arduino/ > > We don't make any further work arduino, but the essence of the seminar > was overlapping meanings to create new meanings. So my idea is to make > some images appear and vanish slowly after a while and also put some > microblogging flux of information. > > I started with etoys, but after seeing that the tile language will not > give me the proper expressiveness to create this project I have "go > down" to Smalltalk using Pharo. I'm a total newbie but I have found some > ways to load images (using SketchMorph). Now I want to make them vanish > slowly and also load the microblogging stream (from Twitter and > Identica, containing an special hashtag). > > This is supposed to be a small week project but is taking longer. I have > asked in the Squeakland and SqueakNewbies mailing list and I got an > answer from the etoys perspective but is not what I need so any pointer > to the proper documentation will be appreciated (hopefully on Sunday :-P) > > Meanwhile I will keep reading the Pharo by Example book trying to get > the spirit of development process and waiting for your kindly help :), > to hopefully get some prototype on Monday. > > Cheers, > > Offray > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNs4TsAAoJEGiex2828ICwbfMIALJlY2LqVCYA0s1wJReveeL5 > SWNpnoGEnbwvnZIdn9x6IKkXnEBcd6XDOL09aZtcnSpOIABqsYD65vw5+O9FINnI > 7WRQKmYag+0dlvifrJY5/eAlMuJ++5c90sqB2VuPxruD4Npkwcui3aVZUHLFHSIl > Y+PdO8S2cw6+dObS4lLIy3YmhdNp14ZIsWDFZdKMpofaT1dsDt1gEXzDUz/HaPKA > Ft0lFUsT6jHLUNE9Pd2O9XcjUeOwwZDHNyvm0Ij/wcJ+HEH9v5OsuXa1C0ayiQb6 > 0gQJhT8OjYgwRh1GfNKL+nCczUs/uetgZ4z0twY8GT6eCFrJbva516eoJ0UVutk= > =Y2AY > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >

April 24, 2011

An small "interactive art" project in Pharo, from a newbie

by Offray Vladimir Luna CÃ¡rdenas

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, First thanks for Pharo. Is a really nice clean innovative environment I have just pointed it to some java teachers/users and they like the overall look and feel. Now some small context: I had taken a short seminar on interactive art. We have used vvvv[1] to make some small experiments and the idea was to use arduino with it, but being it windows only I though in exploring something easy to use and then I found Physical Etoys from Richo's team. [1] http://vvvv.org [2] http://tecnodacta.com.ar/gira/projects/physical-etoys/arduino/ We don't make any further work arduino, but the essence of the seminar was overlapping meanings to create new meanings. So my idea is to make some images appear and vanish slowly after a while and also put some microblogging flux of information. I started with etoys, but after seeing that the tile language will not give me the proper expressiveness to create this project I have "go down" to Smalltalk using Pharo. I'm a total newbie but I have found some ways to load images (using SketchMorph). Now I want to make them vanish slowly and also load the microblogging stream (from Twitter and Identica, containing an special hashtag). This is supposed to be a small week project but is taking longer. I have asked in the Squeakland and SqueakNewbies mailing list and I got an answer from the etoys perspective but is not what I need so any pointer to the proper documentation will be appreciated (hopefully on Sunday :-P) Meanwhile I will keep reading the Pharo by Example book trying to get the spirit of development process and waiting for your kindly help :), to hopefully get some prototype on Monday. Cheers, Offray -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJNs4TsAAoJEGiex2828ICwbfMIALJlY2LqVCYA0s1wJReveeL5 SWNpnoGEnbwvnZIdn9x6IKkXnEBcd6XDOL09aZtcnSpOIABqsYD65vw5+O9FINnI 7WRQKmYag+0dlvifrJY5/eAlMuJ++5c90sqB2VuPxruD4Npkwcui3aVZUHLFHSIl Y+PdO8S2cw6+dObS4lLIy3YmhdNp14ZIsWDFZdKMpofaT1dsDt1gEXzDUz/HaPKA Ft0lFUsT6jHLUNE9Pd2O9XcjUeOwwZDHNyvm0Ij/wcJ+HEH9v5OsuXa1C0ayiQb6 0gQJhT8OjYgwRh1GfNKL+nCczUs/uetgZ4z0twY8GT6eCFrJbva516eoJ0UVutk= =Y2AY -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

April 24, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] Metacellobrowser feedback

by Johan Fabry

On 22 Apr 2011, at 16:53, Dale Henrichs wrote: > Please continue to let us know about your learning adventure:) So here we go for part 2: Making a configuration of AspectMaps. (see http://pleiad.cl/aspectmaps if you want to know more). Sadly, this is the one that did not work out for me :-( Structure: I have a Squeaksource project AspectMaps with two packages (from the 5 present in the project): AspectMaps and Famix-Aspix that I want to include in the config. Each of these has an identically-named category. First problem: there is no obvious wildcard expression that matches both names except * I did not want to enter that at creation time to avoid a gigantic menu. So I accepted the default proposal AspectMaps as wildcard and added the AspectMaps package. Then I tried to add the Famix-Aspix package but I was unable to do this. This is strange, as at development time I should be able to define new packages and include it in the list of packages of a config. Second problem: (after starting afresh and using a * wildcard). There is a dependency between the two packages: Famix-Aspix should be loaded first. I see no way to express this. Moreover, AspectMaps also requires TraitsApplication (yesterdays config) to be loaded. Again, I see no way to express this. This really puzzles me, because for me this is one of the core reasons to have configuration management and hence should be highly visible in this browser. And this actually is my main reason to use Metacello. (Yes, I can use package dependencies in Monticello to do similar stuff, and I am actually doing this with an Aspects-All package -- My thanks to Simon! -- but I want to get away from that because it's a hassle.) Third problem: AspectMaps needs post-load actions and pre-save, pre-unload actions. I dont see how to add that using the browser. Also, apparently pre- and post-load actions are supported in Metacello, but pre-save and pre-unload not? I think it would be good idea to add those ... I'd like to repeat that I do not know Metacello, so if I misinterpreted any menu items in the browser and some of the above is indeed possible please please please correct me. I would be very happy if I could create a configuration for AspectMaps that satisfies the above criteria. In the end, this is what I started to use the browser for! Some more UI issues: - creating a new config does not automatically select it. That's confusing. - what I realized about the menus today: a right mouse button click is supposed to bring up a contextual menu, that is: the contents of the menu change depending on the selected items. This does not happen here. Hence the current menu should actually be in a menu bar. Right click should present a menu that makes sense only on the selected item. -- Johan Fabry jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

April 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [Metacello] Re: Metacellobrowser feedback

by Johan Fabry

My 2 cents on this topic: user interface consistency cannot be underestimated. I called these 'leds' unit-test icons because thats what they are (in my mind and I guess also for a lot of other people). So using them for anything else is not a good idea at all. Alex' proposal seems (to me) a much better idea. On 23 Apr 2011, at 13:05, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > I agree with you. The browser is not yet a replacement for manual editing. The validation mechanism has to be present. > > Maybe the led can be traded with a red bold font for the project name. The meaning of the red font is clear and unambiguous. The led can then instead be used for the test. How does that sound? > > I will work on the test soon. This week end maybe. > > Alexandre > > Le 23 avr. 2011 Ã 11:43, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich(a)vmware.com> a Ã©crit : > >> Alexandre, >> >> I think the 'run tests' command is great idea ... >> >> Validation wil be important as long as folks edit configs by hand, so validation needs to be part of the tool set (whether automatic or manual) ... >> >> Just because people don't do it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be doing it ... it is very easy to introduce an error that won't show up until you try to use the configuration, so validation is important... >> >> I would prefer to see it automatic which then begs the question of how to notify the user that there is a validation issue and which configuration/version has the issue ... presumably we have a set of feedback options that we can use ... >> >> Dale -- Johan Fabry jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

April 23, 2011

Re: [Pharo-users] [Metacello] Re: Metacellobrowser feedback

by Dale Henrichs

Alexandre, I think the 'run tests' command is great idea ... Validation wil be important as long as folks edit configs by hand, so validation needs to be part of the tool set (whether automatic or manual) ... Just because people don't do it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be doing it ... it is very easy to introduce an error that won't show up until you try to use the configuration, so validation is important... I would prefer to see it automatic which then begs the question of how to notify the user that there is a validation issue and which configuration/version has the issue ... presumably we have a set of feedback options that we can use ... Dale On Apr 23, 2011, at 7:46 AM, Alexandre Bergel wrote: > Dale, I was envisioning to have a 'run tests' command to run all the tests installed by a configuration (we can then decide recursively or not). I think this will consolidate the development process since running the tests is preferable before committing. In that case, the validation led may be misleading no? > I have the feeling that the validation is something that an end user does not have much to do. I remember you introduced it when you upgraded a bunch of configurations with symbols. This is not something many do today. > > Cheers, > Alexandre > > > On 22 Apr 2011, at 17:28, Dale Henrichs wrote: > >> No problem ... the icons are there to indicate the validation status .. When you select the 'validate' menu item, each of the versions is validated and the icon is green if there are no issues or red/orange if there are issues. clicking on the icon will return the list of validation issues ... >> >> I put this feature in early on, because I was validating a bunch of configurations and I needed to be able to tell which versions had issues... >> >> In recent weeks I have wondered if I should drop them altogether and then I run into a validation problem and am glad that they are there:) >> >> Right now I think that if they are to stay, they should be automatically updated (in which case we could drop a couple of menu items off of the list:) >> >> Dale >> >> On 04/22/2011 03:23 PM, Johan Fabry wrote: >>> Hi Dale, >>> >>> my pleasure :-) >>> >>> In the mean time could you satisfy my curiosity, and tell me what the unit-test icons at the left of the configs and baselines-versions-... mean? (Idem for groups?) >>> >>> Thanks in advance :-) >>> >>> On 22 Apr 2011, at 16:53, Dale Henrichs wrote: >>> >>>> Johan, >>>> >>>> Thanks for the excellent feedback ... You have touched on some issues that I am aware of and appreciate your suggestions ... you have also touched on some issues that I hadn't thought about ... >>>> >>>> I want to let your feedback marinate a bit ... you have provided enough detail that I think I understand where the improvements are needed, but I'm not sure I know the right way to address them ... yet. >>>> >>>> Please continue to let us know about your learning adventure:) >>>> >>>> Dale >>> >>> -- >>> Johan Fabry >>> jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl - http://dcc.uchile.cl/~jfabry >>> PLEIAD Lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile >>> >>> >>> >> > > -- > _,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;: > Alexandre Bergel http://www.bergel.eu > ^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;. > > > > >

April 23, 2011