- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Why are SmallTalk projects/source code hosted on SS3 Gemstone instead of Git?

by Paul DeBruicker

Rails had 468 committers for its 3.2.0 release [1]. Pharo probably had less than a tenth of that between 1.4 and 2.0 and Seaside 3.0 maybe a fifth of Pharo. As Stuart mentioned there is work being done. Smalltalk is the 48th most popular language on github[2] and so there are projects and tooling for interacting with it. On the mailing list archive across all Smalltalk public mailing lists there are ~2200 posts about github[3] discussing various reasons why things are or are not happening. Its not that there's not effort, or it doesn't exist, or isn't considered. Its that its either not there yet, or not going to get there because a better option will come up or along that people in the more-limited-in-number-of-people-than-you're-used-to open source Smalltalk community want to work on more than github integration [4]. Which features of git are you missing? Which of github? [1] http://contributors.rubyonrails.org/releases [2] https://github.com/languages/Smalltalk [3] http://forum.world.st/template/NamlServlet.jtp?macro=search_page&node=12947… [4] http://www.smalltalkhub.com On 03/19/2013 06:58 PM, Victor Stan wrote: > Why are SmallTalk projects/source code hosted on SS3 Gemstone instead of > Git/GitHub? > > I'm coming to SmallTalk from the world of web development with open > source software, primarily Rails, and I'm very familiar with the amazing > social network/source code repository that is GitHub. It is truly an > industry defining entity, so many open source projects have been able to > harness the ease of use, features and community around Git and GitHub. > > At the moment, as I'm trying to learn more about SmallTalk and Pharo > especially, (my primary interest in Pharo is to use it as a web > development platform), I am a bit shocked, if I may be frank, at the > tooling used for source code and open source project management. I see > that the popular trend now is to move to SS3/Gemstone, and I appreciate > anyone that helps open source development/projects, but I can't see how > they can even come close to the functionality of GitHub for source code > hosting and OS project management, so I pose the question: is there an > effort, why or why not, to start integrating with GitHub and Git for > source code management? > > I know that historical precent and the tools built into Pharo/SmallTalk > images, like Monticello are predecessors to GUI source control, but > given the leaps that Git has managed to take, in distributed source code > management, how does the existing SmallTalk community feel about it's > current tooling in this regard? > > Thanks, > > Victor Stan > > Schedule me: > http://quicklyschedule.quicklyschedule.me/victor > > Add me to your address book - it's easy! > http://contactmonkey.com/victor >

March 20, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Why are SmallTalk projects/source code hosted on SS3 Gemstone instead of Git?

by Dennis Schetinin

I'm ashamed to admit that, but I'm not aware about those magic functionality and amazing advantages GitHub can offer. Couild you please explain (me) that? (I'm not ignorant in general, just didn't have a chance/time to explore that, though I've used GitHub few times and have account there.) And I hope that overview could be a good specification for smalltalkers to implement and perhaps even excel. As for me, I'm not a big fan of migrating everything to GitHub, not only because I don't know its advantages but also because I still believe in objects. I still think live objects are much better then dead text. And I just beware of giving this essential advantage for some bells and whistles. -- Best regards, Dennis Schetinin 2013/3/20 Victor Stan <victor.stan(a)gmail.com> > Why are SmallTalk projects/source code hosted on SS3 Gemstone instead of > Git/GitHub? > > I'm coming to SmallTalk from the world of web development with open source > software, primarily Rails, and I'm very familiar with the amazing social > network/source code repository that is GitHub. It is truly an industry > defining entity, so many open source projects have been able to harness the > ease of use, features and community around Git and GitHub. > > At the moment, as I'm trying to learn more about SmallTalk and Pharo > especially, (my primary interest in Pharo is to use it as a web development > platform), I am a bit shocked, if I may be frank, at the tooling used for > source code and open source project management. I see that the popular > trend now is to move to SS3/Gemstone, and I appreciate anyone that helps > open source development/projects, but I can't see how they can even come > close to the functionality of GitHub for source code hosting and OS project > management, so I pose the question: is there an effort, why or why not, to > start integrating with GitHub and Git for source code management? > > I know that historical precent and the tools built into Pharo/SmallTalk > images, like Monticello are predecessors to GUI source control, but given > the leaps that Git has managed to take, in distributed source code > management, how does the existing SmallTalk community feel about it's > current tooling in this regard? > > Thanks, > > Victor Stan > > Schedule me: > http://quicklyschedule.quicklyschedule.me/victor > > Add me to your address book - it's easy! > http://contactmonkey.com/victor > >

March 20, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Why are SmallTalk projects/source code hosted on SS3 Gemstone instead of Git?

by Stuart Herring

This isn't entirely in response to your question - it's really just a rant on the topic that's been building up for a while, and I'm only speaking as a developer that enjoys using Smalltalk and Pharo in particular. Personally - even as someone originally with a background in C and Java and so well used to file based SCM systems - I much prefer Monticello and working in the image in general. It worries me how much Git and GitHub is venerated by the recent generation of the Open Source community. Git itself is just a DVCS, it's not the first and it's not the last, it's arguably not the best or the worst either. It's just the most trendy right now. If we had a proper seamless connectivity to Git from within the image, I'd probably use it, as it would allow some external tools - particularly code review tools - to work a little better. But I don't think it'd be a revolution and I definitely wouldn't use GitHub. I'd host my own remote repository, or use something like BitBucket instead. I also don't think Git made any particular leaps in source management. Everything that Git can do, other tools can do one way or another. Some of the Git workflow is optimised towards working a particular way, but that doesn't mean you can't do those things in other systems. Additionally, some of the Git workflow is needlessly complicated (what's the point of staging for your local repository?) However, it's GitHub that really worries me. I'm disturbed by how often it seems that people assume Git means GitHub. GitHub is just one service for hosting projects, and it's a wholly commercial, proprietary one - and it's quickly becoming a bigger single point of failure for the Open Source world than Sourceforge was. It's just one option, and should never be considered to be the only one. In addition to that, it's still fundamentally focussed on file based projects - no matter how good Pharo based Git integration gets, GitHub will always involve some degree of impedance mismatch. There's a lot to be said for having tools designed specifically to work with your language and environment - that's why IDEs exist. So I think the Squeak community made the right decision when they originally created Squeaksource, and now the Pharo community is making the right decision by getting behind SmalltalkHub. GitHub has some very good features, but I think the community in general would be better served by having some of those features - and features in GitHub competitors - in SmalltalkHub than by trying to shoehorn Smalltalk projects onto GitHub. (Though some have already achieved that). In the end, I think the whole issue generates more talk than it's worth. If the owner of a project is happy with how they're handling their source at the moment, then there's no problem, even if someone not involved in the project wouldn't have made that choice themselves. If they're not - there are already alternatives. BTW, if you want to use GitHub for your own projects in Pharo, you can - just have a look at FileTree (https://github.com/dalehenrich/filetree) You have to use git itself external to the image - as FileTree is just responsible for creating a structure suitable for file-based source control, but it does work. Regards, Stuart On 20 March 2013 12:58, Victor Stan <victor.stan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Why are SmallTalk projects/source code hosted on SS3 Gemstone instead of > Git/GitHub? > > I'm coming to SmallTalk from the world of web development with open source > software, primarily Rails, and I'm very familiar with the amazing social > network/source code repository that is GitHub. It is truly an industry > defining entity, so many open source projects have been able to harness the > ease of use, features and community around Git and GitHub. > > At the moment, as I'm trying to learn more about SmallTalk and Pharo > especially, (my primary interest in Pharo is to use it as a web development > platform), I am a bit shocked, if I may be frank, at the tooling used for > source code and open source project management. I see that the popular trend > now is to move to SS3/Gemstone, and I appreciate anyone that helps open > source development/projects, but I can't see how they can even come close to > the functionality of GitHub for source code hosting and OS project > management, so I pose the question: is there an effort, why or why not, to > start integrating with GitHub and Git for source code management? > > I know that historical precent and the tools built into Pharo/SmallTalk > images, like Monticello are predecessors to GUI source control, but given > the leaps that Git has managed to take, in distributed source code > management, how does the existing SmallTalk community feel about it's > current tooling in this regard? > > Thanks, > > Victor Stan > > Schedule me: > http://quicklyschedule.quicklyschedule.me/victor > > Add me to your address book - it's easy! > http://contactmonkey.com/victor >

March 20, 2013

Why are SmallTalk projects/source code hosted on SS3 Gemstone instead of Git?

by Victor Stan

Why are SmallTalk projects/source code hosted on SS3 Gemstone instead of Git/GitHub? I'm coming to SmallTalk from the world of web development with open source software, primarily Rails, and I'm very familiar with the amazing social network/source code repository that is GitHub. It is truly an industry defining entity, so many open source projects have been able to harness the ease of use, features and community around Git and GitHub. At the moment, as I'm trying to learn more about SmallTalk and Pharo especially, (my primary interest in Pharo is to use it as a web development platform), I am a bit shocked, if I may be frank, at the tooling used for source code and open source project management. I see that the popular trend now is to move to SS3/Gemstone, and I appreciate anyone that helps open source development/projects, but I can't see how they can even come close to the functionality of GitHub for source code hosting and OS project management, so I pose the question: is there an effort, why or why not, to start integrating with GitHub and Git for source code management? I know that historical precent and the tools built into Pharo/SmallTalk images, like Monticello are predecessors to GUI source control, but given the leaps that Git has managed to take, in distributed source code management, how does the existing SmallTalk community feel about it's current tooling in this regard? Thanks, Victor Stan Schedule me: http://quicklyschedule.quicklyschedule.me/victor Add me to your address book - it's easy! http://contactmonkey.com/victor

March 20, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] suggestion for book code snippets

by Sean P. DeNigris

stephane ducasse wrote > normally code snippet in the book that are tagged with a special tag are > extracted and run as unit tests. > This is long time that I did not try but this was working. Is there a Jenkins job? ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/suggestion-for-book-code-snippets-tp4677338p4677420.h… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

March 19, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] suggestion for book code snippets

by stephane ducasse

> I think it would be a good idea to have the book code snippets > Incorporated into a SUnit regression test suite. normally code snippet in the book that are tagged with a special tag are extracted and run as unit tests. This is long time that I did not try but this was working. > (If doc is not treated as code, then sooner or later it will get out of > sync...)

March 19, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Keymappings 101 tutorial

by phil＠highoctane.be

very. Thanks for writing that! Phil 2013/3/19 Guillermo Polito <guillermopolito(a)gmail.com>: > Hi guys, > > I've written a little tutorial on Keymappings for Pharo 2.0. > > http://playingwithobjects.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/keymappings-101-for-phar… > > Hope it's useful :), > Guille

March 19, 2013

Keymappings 101 tutorial

by Guillermo Polito

Hi guys, I've written a little tutorial on Keymappings for Pharo 2.0. http://playingwithobjects.wordpress.com/2013/03/19/keymappings-101-for-phar… Hope it's useful :), Guille

March 19, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] [Esug-list] [ANN] Pharo 2.0

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

OK, my bad, Robert, I assumed the first part was from the example, and the second was from you. Well, then the code in the help browser is wrong, we'll have to kill whoever wrote that. BTW, I am older than you think, not that it is relevant. On 19 Mar 2013, at 17:24, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > "your code" > > Are you sure you read MY mail, Sven ? > > > The snippet in not MINE ! It is in the Pharo 2.0 HelpBrowser ! > > Were you even born when I was first unhappy with Smalltalk Digitalk/ParcPlace fiasco ? > > Do you know anything about MY code over the last decades ? > > Have I EVER troubled you with MY code ? > > > ... me relatives in Appalachia are also friendlie after a fashion ... even those that cain t reed > > > > > On 19 March 2013 13:13, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > > On 19 Mar 2013, at 17:04, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > "RUN" is the issue ... Sven is sure I was doing INSPECT when I am sure I was using CTRL-D > > Sorry to be persistent but I am unhappy when people don't read correctly what I write ;-) > > I did take the time to run your code, I don't have to do that. > > This was your second example: > > Transcript open. > > | announcer | > World announcer > on: WindowOpened > send: #value > to: [:ea | ea inspect. Transcript show: 'A new window was opened';cr]. > > > Whether you did a 'Do it' or 'Inspect it' is irrelevant, you executed it. > > It has 2 separate problems: > > 1. > > you have to say #value: not #value because your block takes an argument. > > that is a mistake that you introduced yourself and that was not in the original example. > > but as I said, there should not be an emergency evaluator (although it contained the explanation) - so that is something we can try to improve. > > thanks again for reporting that. > > 2. > > ea inspect opens an inspector, which is a window, which triggers your code, which is an infinite loop. > > I can't say this any other way. > > Sven >

March 19, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] [Esug-list] [ANN] Pharo 2.0

by Robert Shiplett

thanks for noticing that ... I miss alot these daes By 2030 there will be more old folks than young ... will we use Clojure or Smalltalk ? Well, the quality of the postLISP Curl debugger means that I am still able to use Curl in old IDE for now ... but Smalltalk should be their fallback enviro --- On 19 March 2013 12:42, Camillo Bruni <camillobruni(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 2013-03-19, at 16:41, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has > > been automatically rejected. If you think that your messages are > > being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at > > pharo-project-owner(a)lists.gforge.inria.fr. > > > > > > I get this today ... but I can Post by REPLY here in my email ... > > not the same mailing list: > > pharo-project: dev mailing list > pharo-users: user mailing list > >

March 19, 2013