- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo as a platform for a large E-Commerce website

by Cameron Sanders

Are you definitely going the smalltalk path and your question is Which One platform? Or are you not yet committed to smalltalk? If you go with Pharo, you may be able to migrate to something like Gemstone should the need arise. Or to one of the other flavors. - I recently interviewed a kid with CompSci degree from a small school here in the States. He showed me his Senior Project. And I was nearly floored in shock. It was a whole mess of PHP... that did nothing more than present three DB tables to the user, which they could edit. In Pharo, using Seaside, and working through the tutorial to construct your login system (which was one of the tables of this project), and ... and using SQL calls directly (not learning Glorp), it would probably just take a few days to do as-you-learn. The amount of functional code/behavior seemed really small for a senior project... at least when compared to the productivity of Pharo+Seaside. The moral of this story: if you are considering PHP as your alternative... DON'T! Instead work with classes/objects, in an environment that supports OO programming. Smalltalk scales really well in terms of programming time -- one of the most productive environments you will find. That said... there are more java programmers than smalltalkers. ... of course... you need more java programmers for the same functionality! ;) - How many different dialogs/widgets presented to the User? How many unique attributes/fields for user to select? Navigation is standardized? Etc. Obviously, sizing a project takes time. ... In smalltalk, one can often lay out crude class definitions as fast as you can type them into a project management system. It was made for rapid prototyping, and the ('type') evolution that comes with such development. - I have a project that I would like to scale beyond your specs. But we can grow more slowly, giving us time to grapple with questions about DB mirroring, and how many Virtual images do we need, and how many Pharo images running on each... load balancing, etc. There are several people on this board who know more about this than I do. (Several offering consulting services too.) Good luck! -Cam On Sun, Aug 4, 2013 at 7:25 AM, Stephan Eggermont <stephan(a)stack.nl> wrote: > Sanjay wrote: > >Possibly the above details are sketchy but the immediate questions for him > >to firm up investment plans are: > >- Will a Pharo based platform be appropriate > > -- Technology ? > > -- Robustness & support ? > > Nothing you indicated in your estimates would be a bad fit for Pharo. > Strong points for Pharo in a startup context are flexibility and very > fast development. > Not being 64-bit is a weak point, but you might be able to come up > with a shared nothing architecture and lots of images running part > of the problem. > > Do a spike integrating and deploying the technologies you need, > and make sure you can do that again after each commit. > > >- what will be the team man year effort (ballpark estimate) for > development, > >testing, administration upto initial go-live ? > > 1, 10 or 10000. Portal is a semantics-free marketing term. > Estimation at this level of fuzziness is a meaningless activity. > What do you plan to have online at the end of the first week, the > first month and the first quarter (at less and less detailed level)? > Do you already have these users, or do you need to grow the number > from zero? > > Create a story map and slice it. > http://www.agileproductdesign.com/blog/the_new_backlog.html > > Stephan > >

Aug. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] New version of PharoSound

by Xavier MESSNER

You are right ! I will try to use this version instead and then i will update my blogs. I'll keep you in touch. Thx. Xavier. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/New-version-of-PharoSound-tp4702032p4702362.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] New version of PharoSound

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On Aug 6, 2013, at 8:50 PM, kmo <voxkmp(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks for the help. > > As far as I can see the guide to setting it up is simply to copy the pulse > audio plugin from Squeak into the Pharo folder. > > I have tried this and SoundPlayer boinkScale now actually works! This is > further than I've ever got so many thanks. > > However, FMSound organ1 play does not work. Nor does the SoundDemoMorph. > > But I'm not really worried. I'm only playing about. > > But it does worry me that we have a PharoSound in the configuration browser > that does not play sound. When I load the configuration on 20 30 alpha I have sound on my machine. So do you know how heavy is to have to test on 5 different OSes with several versions of linuxes? We have a test-farm (and we could do much better) but I requested an engineer to work on the package certifications to put in place the infrastructure we need but it was rejected. So no money and I do not have a money making machine. > I think that if Pharo wants to attract developers > it is important not to have anything that does not work in the approved list > of add-ons. We know. Do you think that the SmallLint meta data handling was done by accident? Or the massive work on the integration server? Or the catalog we are working on. No this is the vision we have: read the Pharo vision pdf. Now no money means less work done. > The thing that put me off Squeak forever was that it came with hundreds of > widgets and examples - toys, and little apps - and many did not work and > many more worked really badly. I think that same. > This is not a good impression to give if you > want market share. We are working on that. But we have too many customers and not enough people helping. > Pharo actually looks drop-dead gorgeous. It's a stunning piece of software - > do not ruin the effect by having something that doesn't work so near at hand > and so tempting to install. We know. We share 100% this point of view. > A further point, if Pharo needs the pulse audio plugin to play sound, why is > it not in the Pharo Linux package? Having to copy stuff from another product > is really lame. Indeed. I think that the same but nothing is that easy. If you want to help open a bug entry with the problem and tag it under VM. And we will see. Now if linux people do not use sound and do not tell us we cannot know. By the way there is no test in the SoundPackage so how can we are them on the headless server (because the headless farm server may also have a sound disabledâ¦.) So you see the devil is in the detail. > > - Ken > > > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/New-version-of-PharoSound-tp4702032p4702347.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Aug. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] New version of PharoSound

by kmo

Thanks for the help. As far as I can see the guide to setting it up is simply to copy the pulse audio plugin from Squeak into the Pharo folder. I have tried this and SoundPlayer boinkScale now actually works! This is further than I've ever got so many thanks. However, FMSound organ1 play does not work. Nor does the SoundDemoMorph. But I'm not really worried. I'm only playing about. But it does worry me that we have a PharoSound in the configuration browser that does not play sound. I think that if Pharo wants to attract developers it is important not to have anything that does not work in the approved list of add-ons. The thing that put me off Squeak forever was that it came with hundreds of widgets and examples - toys, and little apps - and many did not work and many more worked really badly. This is not a good impression to give if you want market share. Pharo actually looks drop-dead gorgeous. It's a stunning piece of software - do not ruin the effect by having something that doesn't work so near at hand and so tempting to install. A further point, if Pharo needs the pulse audio plugin to play sound, why is it not in the Pharo Linux package? Having to copy stuff from another product is really lame. - Ken -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/New-version-of-PharoSound-tp4702032p4702347.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] New version of PharoSound

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Tx :) Do not use the squeaksource version. We improved the version on SmalltalkHub/PharoExtras Stef > Hi, > > I have updated my blog to be used with pharo 2 summer edition > <http://goo.gl/R8ZJJC> . > I will write another to add vocal sound but it's a little more complicated. > > Hope it will help :) > > Xavier. > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/New-version-of-PharoSound-tp4702032p4702284.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Aug. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Troubles using Pharo 2.0 one-click package on a secured WinXP

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

pay attention that also virus checker can think pharo is a virus because it modifies the change file. Stef On Aug 6, 2013, at 11:44 AM, Mun Mun <mun.sysdev(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi ! > > I'm quite new to Smalltalk and and so far, I've used Pharo on a regular XP system and everything went well. I'll add that my image occupy ~40 Mo in memory. > > I've recently tried to deploy my small app on the target system which is a very seccured package of WinXP. I can't help much on describing the specificities of the system as I'm just the user. But the system is cleared of unused services, there is a lot of account auditing, temporary files are explicitly written off the disk at logoff and so on. > > When launching the VM, I'm offered to choose an image to open and the following happen (I monitor the launching using the task manager) : > Â¤ The first ~40 Mo are quickly allocated in memory > Â¤ More memory is slowly allocated to the Pharo.exe process > Â¤ After ~5 min, 100Mo allocated and counting, I stop the process and never get to see the Pharo GUI > > > Is there a way for me to trace/dump what the VM is doing and maybe get help here to make my app work ? > > > Complementary information : > Â¤ I made a very crappy deployement: due to recent restrictions, I could not download a fresh and clean Pharo image. I picked the cleanest I had used, removed the various tutorial packages I had made (LOCell and stuff ;) and loaded the Monticello package of my little app. > Â¤ The target system run on a VM (with something like VSphere). My understanding is that we have a cheap virtualization setup which is not adapted at all for XP.

Aug. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] New version of PharoSound

by Xavier MESSNER

Hi, I have updated my blog to be used with pharo 2 summer edition <http://goo.gl/R8ZJJC> . I will write another to add vocal sound but it's a little more complicated. Hope it will help :) Xavier. -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/New-version-of-PharoSound-tp4702032p4702284.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Aug. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Troubles using Pharo 2.0 one-click package on a secured WinXP

by Guillermo Polito

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Mun Mun <mun.sysdev(a)gmail.com> wrote: > I found the source of the issue and it was because some files were > imported on the system in Read Only mode. Funny enough, there were allready > a PharoDebug.log from my dev environement weighting arround 20 Mo: removing > the file permited to launch the Pharo GUI but with a lot of file opening > failure and some code missing. It hinted me to the solution. > > Thanks for your time anyway ! > > Btw, it's the first time I use a mailling list and I wanted to answer to > my own question to save the hassle of other readers. I'm not sure how you > can do that without having received an answer. > Thanks for that, actually :). BTW, It would be nice to have a nice message and a clean quit instead of such ugly behavior... So, could you develop more? :) Guille > > > 2013/8/6 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > >> >> >> >> On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Mun Mun <mun.sysdev(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi ! >>> >>> I'm quite new to Smalltalk and and so far, I've used Pharo on a regular >>> XP system and everything went well. I'll add that my image occupy ~40 Mo in >>> memory. >>> >>> I've recently tried to deploy my small app on the target system which is >>> a very seccured package of WinXP. I can't help much on describing the >>> specificities of the system as I'm just the user. But the system is cleared >>> of unused services, there is a lot of account auditing, temporary files are >>> explicitly written off the disk at logoff and so on. >>> >>> When launching the VM, I'm offered to choose an image to open and the >>> following happen (I monitor the launching using the task manager) : >>> Â¤ The first ~40 Mo are quickly allocated in memory >>> Â¤ More memory is slowly allocated to the Pharo.exe process >>> Â¤ After ~5 min, 100Mo allocated and counting, I stop the process and >>> never get to see the Pharo GUI >>> >>> >>> Is there a way for me to trace/dump what the VM is doing and maybe get >>> help here to make my app work ? >>> >>> >> Is there any PharoDebug.log next to the .image file? >> >> Are you sure the .sources is in the correct place and found when running? >> >> >>> Complementary information : >>> Â¤ I made a very crappy deployement: due to recent restrictions, I could >>> not download a fresh and clean Pharo image. I picked the cleanest I had >>> used, removed the various tutorial packages I had made (LOCell and stuff ;) >>> and loaded the Monticello package of my little app. >>> Â¤ The target system run on a VM (with something like VSphere). My >>> understanding is that we have a cheap virtualization setup which is not >>> adapted at all for XP. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Mariano >> http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >> > >

Aug. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Troubles using Pharo 2.0 one-click package on a secured WinXP

by Mun Mun

I found the source of the issue and it was because some files were imported on the system in Read Only mode. Funny enough, there were allready a PharoDebug.log from my dev environement weighting arround 20 Mo: removing the file permited to launch the Pharo GUI but with a lot of file opening failure and some code missing. It hinted me to the solution. Thanks for your time anyway ! Btw, it's the first time I use a mailling list and I wanted to answer to my own question to save the hassle of other readers. I'm not sure how you can do that without having received an answer. 2013/8/6 Mariano Martinez Peck <marianopeck(a)gmail.com> > > > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Mun Mun <mun.sysdev(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi ! >> >> I'm quite new to Smalltalk and and so far, I've used Pharo on a regular >> XP system and everything went well. I'll add that my image occupy ~40 Mo in >> memory. >> >> I've recently tried to deploy my small app on the target system which is >> a very seccured package of WinXP. I can't help much on describing the >> specificities of the system as I'm just the user. But the system is cleared >> of unused services, there is a lot of account auditing, temporary files are >> explicitly written off the disk at logoff and so on. >> >> When launching the VM, I'm offered to choose an image to open and the >> following happen (I monitor the launching using the task manager) : >> Â¤ The first ~40 Mo are quickly allocated in memory >> Â¤ More memory is slowly allocated to the Pharo.exe process >> Â¤ After ~5 min, 100Mo allocated and counting, I stop the process and >> never get to see the Pharo GUI >> >> >> Is there a way for me to trace/dump what the VM is doing and maybe get >> help here to make my app work ? >> >> > Is there any PharoDebug.log next to the .image file? > > Are you sure the .sources is in the correct place and found when running? > > >> Complementary information : >> Â¤ I made a very crappy deployement: due to recent restrictions, I could >> not download a fresh and clean Pharo image. I picked the cleanest I had >> used, removed the various tutorial packages I had made (LOCell and stuff ;) >> and loaded the Monticello package of my little app. >> Â¤ The target system run on a VM (with something like VSphere). My >> understanding is that we have a cheap virtualization setup which is not >> adapted at all for XP. >> > > > > -- > Mariano > http://marianopeck.wordpress.com >

Aug. 6, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Troubles using Pharo 2.0 one-click package on a secured WinXP

by Mariano Martinez Peck

On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 6:44 AM, Mun Mun <mun.sysdev(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi ! > > I'm quite new to Smalltalk and and so far, I've used Pharo on a regular XP > system and everything went well. I'll add that my image occupy ~40 Mo in > memory. > > I've recently tried to deploy my small app on the target system which is a > very seccured package of WinXP. I can't help much on describing the > specificities of the system as I'm just the user. But the system is cleared > of unused services, there is a lot of account auditing, temporary files are > explicitly written off the disk at logoff and so on. > > When launching the VM, I'm offered to choose an image to open and the > following happen (I monitor the launching using the task manager) : > Â¤ The first ~40 Mo are quickly allocated in memory > Â¤ More memory is slowly allocated to the Pharo.exe process > Â¤ After ~5 min, 100Mo allocated and counting, I stop the process and never > get to see the Pharo GUI > > > Is there a way for me to trace/dump what the VM is doing and maybe get > help here to make my app work ? > > Is there any PharoDebug.log next to the .image file? Are you sure the .sources is in the correct place and found when running? > Complementary information : > Â¤ I made a very crappy deployement: due to recent restrictions, I could > not download a fresh and clean Pharo image. I picked the cleanest I had > used, removed the various tutorial packages I had made (LOCell and stuff ;) > and loaded the Monticello package of my little app. > Â¤ The target system run on a VM (with something like VSphere). My > understanding is that we have a cheap virtualization setup which is not > adapted at all for XP. > -- Mariano http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Aug. 6, 2013