- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Thinking aloud about project at hand

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

> On 3 May 2020, at 11:03, Lorenzo <lorenzo(a)edor.it> wrote: > > Hi Stephane, > > may be you remeber me as I helped you for a ESUG in Brescia. Yes I remember. > At present I am working on a revision of fuzzy expert system generator that, > IMHO, could be used for the project. Please publish it. S. > If you believe that it could be interesting, please, let me know. > > Ciao > > Lorenzo > > -----Messaggio originale----- > Da: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di > StÃ©phane Ducasse > Inviato: sabato 2 maggio 2020 22:01 > A: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> > Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-users] Thinking aloud about project at hand > > >> >>> I'm thinking about implementing a software solution in Pharo (as one >>> of the >> candidate environments), it's >>> a project that I'm dealing with professionally. The goal is to >>> develop a financial planning/simulation application on the country >>> level, which is at present developed as a set of interrelated Excel >>> spreadsheets. >>> The requirement is that the solution should be more "manageable", >>> resilient and straightforward than Excel permits, that it should >>> present a workflow to the user - i.e. , that the tasks the user >>> should do are suggested through the GUI. >> >> Thanks again for all the ideas regarding my project. So far I prepared >> the domain model and all the calculations. The model might be changed >> in the future, but that's basically it. Now I'm going to focus on the >> user's workflow and GUI. >> >> I have to say that I'm positively surprised by Pharo. Besides Pharo, I >> explored the feasibility of using other environments for the same >> project, namely VBA, .NET, Python. What took me in VBA and C#.NET >> roughly two weeks - and these are my 'native' programming environments >> - I finished in five days in Pharo. If GUI and finalization will go > smoothly, this will be a success. >> I'm playing with Pharo for some time, but until now I haven't done any >> serious work with it. Nice! >> > > Thanks Tomaz. > This is a really interesting story. > Let us know and we will do our best to help you. > Spec20 has still some rough edges. But one step at a time. > I think that we will get to a point where we can start to breath a bit > around Spec2.0. > > S. > > > > -- > Questa e-mail Ã¨ stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

May 3, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo Compendium

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

It can probably work in P8 because parts of Spec20 are working in P8 but not all the features and widgets like tables and others. But torsten will tell us. > On 3 May 2020, at 17:34, Esteban Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Excellent Torsten! > > I guess it will not work in Pharo 8 because of the Spec 2 requirement. Right? > > Regards! > > Esteban A. Maringolo > > On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 5:35 PM Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> time flows and Pharo-Project is improving on all ends since its inception in 2008. As you know over time for the code project hosting we used >> SqueakSource, SS3 repos and other and later switched to SmalltalkHub available on http://smalltalkhub.com. >> Starting with Iceberg in Pharo 6 many community projects are now hosted elsewhere - most of them moved to GitHub. Pharo's git support allows >> also for GitLab, BitBucket and other git hosting services. >> >> I still think easy and quick accessibility to external (re)sources directly from the image is key - especially for new users who often get lost >> among all the various things that are available. Back in 2013 I therefore provided a small tool called ConfigBrowser as a replacement for >> MetacelloConfigurationBrowser to easily load Metacello configs directly into Pharo. >> >> Later we improved quick loading with a primary tool called "Catalog" written by Esteban. Catalog is indexing every 24 hours all configs within >> specific meta-repositories on SmalltalkHub (per Pharo version) like >> >> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/MetaRepoForPharo80 >> >> to automatically build >> >> http://catalog.pharo.org/ >> >> and also a JSON source >> >> http://catalog.pharo.org/catalog/json >> >> The last one feeds the catalog browser and catalog spotter search within the Pharo image. >> >> So Catalog helped us and especially new Pharo users to find what is available as external project or package. Unfortunately some package maintainers >> are too lazy and do not maintain their configs over old and new Pharo versions. Also SmalltalkHub.com is now seen as legacy and will only be available >> in a read only mode or as a browseable archive soon. >> >> So we have to think about others steps beyond Catalog and (triggered by a recent discussion on Discord) I started now a simple tool that helped me >> finding all GitHub projects marked with "pharo" as GitHub topic. I additionally also added previous catalog loading. More sources could be added >> as well as some kind of custom stores/plugins. Maybe this tool could be the base for a future replacement of the catalog tool. >> >> Long story short - let me introduce "Pharo Compendium": >> >> Compendium is a new UI tool to list, browse and load Pharo artefacts from the web like: >> >> - GitHub Projects >> - Catalog Projects >> >> and other >> >> By default there are two plugin packages available for GitHub and Catalog - but you can implement own ones easily to connect to other sources >> on the web. Compendium is available on: >> >> https://github.com/astares/Pharo-Compendium >> >> It is implemented using the new Spec2 UI framework - so you need a recent Pharo 9 image to give it a try. Just run: >> >> Metacello new >> repository: 'github://astares/Pharo-Compendium/src'; >> baseline: 'Compendium'; >> load >> >> to load the tool. Then go to "Tools" -> "Compendium Browser". Attached is a screenshot demoing the primary functionality. >> >> If you want your GitHub project to be listed in the tool you simply need to add the topic "pharo" to the GitHub repository on the GitHub webpage. >> >> Feel free to comment or help improving the tool by sending PR's. >> >> Thx >> T. (aka astares) >> >> > -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

May 3, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] New type of web application using HTML, CSS and Smalltalk

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Ok I did not hear that you were talking :) > On 3 May 2020, at 22:30, StÃ©phane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse(a)inria.fr> wrote: > > Hi erik > > this is strange since during a couple of minutes we do not see much. > > S. > >> On 3 May 2020, at 20:11, Erik Stel <erik.stel(a)gmail.com <mailto:erik.stel@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> I have published my first demo of a new type of webapplication based on a >> tiny Smalltalk image running in the browser, acting as the JS-engine. Create >> a dynamic application using Smalltalk only, with the direct manipulation >> you're familiar with from Smalltalk. And ...(in the near future)... with the >> same debugging capabilities. Still work in progress, but hopefully providing >> an idea of what's in store. >> >> Feel free to ask questions. >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvY7R6te7go <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvY7R6te7go> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html >> > > -------------------------------------------- > StÃ©phane Ducasse > http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr <http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr/> / http://www.pharo.org <http://www.pharo.org/> > 03 59 35 87 52 > Assistant: Julie Jonas > FAX 03 59 57 78 50 > TEL 03 59 35 86 16 > S. Ducasse - Inria > 40, avenue Halley, > Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza > Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 > France > -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

May 3, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] New type of web application using HTML, CSS and Smalltalk

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

Hi erik this is strange since during a couple of minutes we do not see much. S. > On 3 May 2020, at 20:11, Erik Stel <erik.stel(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > I have published my first demo of a new type of webapplication based on a > tiny Smalltalk image running in the browser, acting as the JS-engine. Create > a dynamic application using Smalltalk only, with the direct manipulation > you're familiar with from Smalltalk. And ...(in the near future)... with the > same debugging capabilities. Still work in progress, but hopefully providing > an idea of what's in store. > > Feel free to ask questions. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvY7R6te7go > > > > > -- > Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html > -------------------------------------------- StÃ©phane Ducasse http://stephane.ducasse.free.fr / http://www.pharo.org 03 59 35 87 52 Assistant: Julie Jonas FAX 03 59 57 78 50 TEL 03 59 35 86 16 S. Ducasse - Inria 40, avenue Halley, Parc Scientifique de la Haute Borne, BÃ¢t.A, Park Plaza Villeneuve d'Ascq 59650 France

May 3, 2020

New type of web application using HTML, CSS and Smalltalk

by Erik Stel

I have published my first demo of a new type of webapplication based on a tiny Smalltalk image running in the browser, acting as the JS-engine. Create a dynamic application using Smalltalk only, with the direct manipulation you're familiar with from Smalltalk. And ...(in the near future)... with the same debugging capabilities. Still work in progress, but hopefully providing an idea of what's in store. Feel free to ask questions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvY7R6te7go -- Sent from: http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Users-f1310670.html

May 3, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] [ANN] Pharo Compendium

by Esteban Maringolo

Excellent Torsten! I guess it will not work in Pharo 8 because of the Spec 2 requirement. Right? Regards! Esteban A. Maringolo On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 5:35 PM Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > Hi, > > time flows and Pharo-Project is improving on all ends since its inception in 2008. As you know over time for the code project hosting we used > SqueakSource, SS3 repos and other and later switched to SmalltalkHub available on http://smalltalkhub.com. > Starting with Iceberg in Pharo 6 many community projects are now hosted elsewhere - most of them moved to GitHub. Pharo's git support allows > also for GitLab, BitBucket and other git hosting services. > > I still think easy and quick accessibility to external (re)sources directly from the image is key - especially for new users who often get lost > among all the various things that are available. Back in 2013 I therefore provided a small tool called ConfigBrowser as a replacement for > MetacelloConfigurationBrowser to easily load Metacello configs directly into Pharo. > > Later we improved quick loading with a primary tool called "Catalog" written by Esteban. Catalog is indexing every 24 hours all configs within > specific meta-repositories on SmalltalkHub (per Pharo version) like > > http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo/MetaRepoForPharo80 > > to automatically build > > http://catalog.pharo.org/ > > and also a JSON source > > http://catalog.pharo.org/catalog/json > > The last one feeds the catalog browser and catalog spotter search within the Pharo image. > > So Catalog helped us and especially new Pharo users to find what is available as external project or package. Unfortunately some package maintainers > are too lazy and do not maintain their configs over old and new Pharo versions. Also SmalltalkHub.com is now seen as legacy and will only be available > in a read only mode or as a browseable archive soon. > > So we have to think about others steps beyond Catalog and (triggered by a recent discussion on Discord) I started now a simple tool that helped me > finding all GitHub projects marked with "pharo" as GitHub topic. I additionally also added previous catalog loading. More sources could be added > as well as some kind of custom stores/plugins. Maybe this tool could be the base for a future replacement of the catalog tool. > > Long story short - let me introduce "Pharo Compendium": > > Compendium is a new UI tool to list, browse and load Pharo artefacts from the web like: > > - GitHub Projects > - Catalog Projects > > and other > > By default there are two plugin packages available for GitHub and Catalog - but you can implement own ones easily to connect to other sources > on the web. Compendium is available on: > > https://github.com/astares/Pharo-Compendium > > It is implemented using the new Spec2 UI framework - so you need a recent Pharo 9 image to give it a try. Just run: > > Metacello new > repository: 'github://astares/Pharo-Compendium/src'; > baseline: 'Compendium'; > load > > to load the tool. Then go to "Tools" -> "Compendium Browser". Attached is a screenshot demoing the primary functionality. > > If you want your GitHub project to be listed in the tool you simply need to add the topic "pharo" to the GitHub repository on the GitHub webpage. > > Feel free to comment or help improving the tool by sending PR's. > > Thx > T. (aka astares) > >

May 3, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] mentor question 4

by Roelof Wobben

May 3, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] mentor question 4

by Ben Coman

On Sun., 3 May 2020, 3:48 pm Roelof Wobben, <r.wobben(a)home.nl> wrote: > Op 3-5-2020 om 04:24 schreef Ben Coman: > > > > On Sun, 3 May 2020 at 03:09, Roelof Wobben <r.wobben(a)home.nl> wrote: > >> Op 2-5-2020 om 19:33 schreef Ben Coman: >> >> >> >> On Sat, 2 May 2020 at 15:52, Roelof Wobben via Pharo-users < >> pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> wrote: >> >>> Op 1-5-2020 om 08:35 schreef Roelof Wobben: >>> >> On Fri, 1 May 2020 at 02:16, Roelof Wobben <r.wobben(a)home.nl> wrote: >>> >>> Op 30-4-2020 om 16:06 schreef Richard O'Keefe: >>> >>>> This sounds very much like the Luhn test task at RosettaCode. >>> >>>> https://rosettacode.org/wiki/Luhn_test_of_credit_card_numbers >>> >>>> except that there it is described as working on the digits of an >>> >>>> integer. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> (1) There are two approaches to traversing a sequence in reverse. >>> >>>> (A) Reverse the sequence, then traverse the copy forward. >>> >>>> aString reverse do: [:each | ...] >>> >>>> (B) Just traverse the sequence in reverse >>> >>>> aString reverseDo: [:each | ...] >>> >>>> My taste is for the second. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> (2) There are two approaches to deleting spaces. >>> >>>> (A) Make a copy of the string without spaces. >>> >>>> x := aString reject: [:each | each = Character space]. >>> >>>> x do: ... >>> >>>> (B) Ignore spaces as you go: >>> >>>> (i) aString do: [:each | each = Character space ifFalse: >>> >>>> [...]] >>> >>>> (ii) aString select: [:each | each ~= Character space] >>> >>>> thenDo: >>> >>>> [:each | ...] >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Combining (1A) and (2A) you get very obvious code: >>> >>>> (aString reject: [:each | each = Character space]) reverse do: >>> >>>> [:digit } ...] >>> >>>> Combining (1B) and (2Bi) you get more efficient code: >>> >>>> aString reverseDo: [:digit | >>> >>>> digit = Character space ifFalse: [ ...]] >>> >>>> >>> >>>> By the way, let's start by checking that the character in the >>> >>>> string *are* >>> >>>> digits or spaces: >>> >>>> (aString allSatisfy: [:each | each isDigit or: [each = >>> >>>> Character s[ace]]) >>> >>>> ifFalse: [^false], >>> >>>> >>> >>>> (3) There are two approaches to doubling the even digits. >>> >>>> (A) Make a new string that starts as a copy and change every >>> >>>> second >>> >>>> digit from the right. >>> >>>> (B) Simply *act* as if this has been done; keep track of >>> >>>> whether the >>> >>>> current digit position is even or odd and multiply by 1 >>> >>>> or 2 as >>> >>>> appropriate. >>> >>>> nextIsOdd := true. >>> >>>> aString reverseDo: [:digit | >>> >>>> digit = Character space ifFalse: [ >>> >>>> nextIsOdd >>> >>>> ifTrue: [oddSum := ...] >>> >>>> ifFalse: [evenSum := ...]. >>> >>>> nextIsOdd := nextIsOdd not]]. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> I *like* code that traverses a data structure exactly once and >>> >>>> allocates no intermediate garbage, so I'd be making (B) choices. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>> For me , I use this to practice solving problems and doing the >>> >>> "right" >>> >>> steps. >>> >>> So I love it , that so many people share there way of solving it. >>> >>> I can learn a lot from it >>> >>> Expecially when they explain there thinking process so detailed. >>> >>> >>> >>> I like this code also a lot. >>> >>> Am I correct for testing if it is a valid string by doing this ^ >>> >>> (oddSum + evenSum) dividedBy: 10 >>> >>> >>> >>> Roelof >>> >>> >>> > >>> > >>> > oke, >>> > >>> > so this is better >>> > >>> > cardNumber := '8273 1232 7352 0569'. >>> > oddSum := 0. >>> > evenSum := 0. >>> > nextIsOdd := false. >>> > cardNumber reverseDo: [:character | >>> > digit := character digitValue. >>> > character = Character space ifFalse: [ >>> > nextIsOdd >>> > ifFalse: [oddSum := oddSum + digit ] >>> > ifTrue: [(digit >= 5 ) >>> > ifTrue: [evenSum := evenSum + (digit * 2) - 9 ] >>> > ifFalse: [ evenSum := evenSum + (digit * 2) ]]. >>> > nextIsOdd := nextIsOdd not]]. >>> > ^ evenSum + oddSum // 10 == 0. >>> > >>> > >>> > where I could even make a seperate method of the ifTrue branch when >>> > the digit is greater then 5. >>> > >>> > >>> nobody who can say if this is a good solution ? >>> >> >> You didn't actually ask a question :) >> >> btw, Its good you are stretching yourself to do it the most complicated >> way, >> but pay attention that when Richard says HE "likes code that traverses a >> data structure exactly once" >> its because he is starting with the philosophy to OPTIMISE for EFFICIENCY. >> Often in programming that is the LAST thing you should do because to do >> so your code often becomes more complex, >> and Kernagan's law applies... >> https://talixa.com/blog/why-i-write-simple-code/ >> >> In general, you want to avoid premature optimization. >> https://effectiviology.com/premature-optimization/ >> >> The catch-phrase I see around this forum priorities things in this order: >> 1. Make it work. >> 2. Make it right. >> 3. Make it fast. >> and often you can stop at 2 because it is already "fast enough". >> >> Considering your code above, if I take TIME to go through it, I can >> evaluate that it seems right >> but I remain feeling that I could have missed something. >> >> Something like Richard's (A) examples without loops I would consider to >> be "more good". >> since each line can be dealt with individually. >> >> cardNumber := '4539 1488 0343 6467'. >> cleanDigits := cardNumber copyWithout: Character space. >> preWrapDigits := cleanDigits asArray collectWithIndex: [ :char :idx | >> (idx\\2 + 1) * char digitValue ]. >> wrappedDigits := preWrapDigits collect: [ :d | d > 9 ifFalse: [ d ] >> ifTrue: [ d-9 ] ]. >> ^ wrappedDigits sum isDivisibleBy: 10. >> >> A side benefit is having full result of each transformation available to >> be reviewed, >> rather than having only pieces of it in view when you debug a loop. >> >> In the end though, yours is a good solution first and foremost because >> tried a more detailed way and you got it working!! >> Remember there is more than one "good way" to do it depending on what you >> are optimising for - efficiency or readability. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> >> >> I think I find readability more important then efficieny. >> >> But I think I have to alter your code. At first look it does not look >> like that every second value from the right is multiplied by 2. >> >> When the index is for example 7 . >> >> 7 // 2 gives 3. >> Maybe it needs to be %. >> > > But why are you testing // when my code uses \\ ? :) > small details can have a big impact. > > cheers -ben > > > Chips, but then it does exactly the other way around that I wanted. > > 7 is a non-even index 7 \\ 2 gives 1 + 1 gives 2 so the number gets > multiplied by 2 where its must be multiplied by 1. > 8 is a even index 8 \\ 2 gives 0 + 1 gives 1 so the number gets > muliplied by 1 where it must be multiplied by 2. > Sorry, I worked from the example of your original post. >>> 4539 1488 0343 6467 >>> 4_3_ 1_8_ 0_4_ 6_6_ >>> 8569 2478 0383 3437 >>> 8+5+6+9+2+4+7+8+0+3+8+3+3+4+3+7 = 80 where it looked like the odd indexes needed doubling and I was getting a checksum of 80 so that seemed correct. If you want to double the even indexes try (2 - (idx\\2)). cheers -ben

May 3, 2020

R: Thinking aloud about project at hand

by Lorenzo

Hi Stephane, may be you remeber me as I helped you for a ESUG in Brescia. At present I am working on a revision of fuzzy expert system generator that, IMHO, could be used for the project. If you believe that it could be interesting, please, let me know. Ciao Lorenzo -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] Per conto di StÃ©phane Ducasse Inviato: sabato 2 maggio 2020 22:01 A: Any question about pharo is welcome <pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org> Oggetto: Re: [Pharo-users] Thinking aloud about project at hand > >> I'm thinking about implementing a software solution in Pharo (as one >> of the > candidate environments), it's >> a project that I'm dealing with professionally. The goal is to >> develop a financial planning/simulation application on the country >> level, which is at present developed as a set of interrelated Excel >> spreadsheets. >> The requirement is that the solution should be more "manageable", >> resilient and straightforward than Excel permits, that it should >> present a workflow to the user - i.e. , that the tasks the user >> should do are suggested through the GUI. > > Thanks again for all the ideas regarding my project. So far I prepared > the domain model and all the calculations. The model might be changed > in the future, but that's basically it. Now I'm going to focus on the > user's workflow and GUI. > > I have to say that I'm positively surprised by Pharo. Besides Pharo, I > explored the feasibility of using other environments for the same > project, namely VBA, .NET, Python. What took me in VBA and C#.NET > roughly two weeks - and these are my 'native' programming environments > - I finished in five days in Pharo. If GUI and finalization will go smoothly, this will be a success. > I'm playing with Pharo for some time, but until now I haven't done any > serious work with it. Nice! > Thanks Tomaz. This is a really interesting story. Let us know and we will do our best to help you. Spec20 has still some rough edges. But one step at a time. I think that we will get to a point where we can start to breath a bit around Spec2.0. S. -- Questa e-mail Ã¨ stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

May 3, 2020

Re: [Pharo-users] mentor question 4

by Roelof Wobben

May 3, 2020