- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Esteban Lorenzano

On 23 Dec 2013, at 01:17, Johan Fabry <jfabry(a)dcc.uchile.cl> wrote: > > On Dec 22, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Mark Bestley <st(a)bestley.co.uk> wrote: > >> On 22/12/2013 14:04, Johan Fabry wrote: >> >>>>> Also, I think it is very wrong to keep the images in the Library >>>>> folder by default. The Library is "hidden" and a "black magic - do not >>>>> touch" area for the common user. A sensible default is the Documents folder. >> >> If a user thinks the Library is black magic then they won't be manipulating images outside of Pharo and PharoLauncher. (as I don't think they will be capable of doing so) This is wrong. A mac user not ever touch his songs directly, it uses iTunes, yet his music files are at "Music/iTunes Musicâ, not hidden. Same applies for pharo images. Even if you are not going to touch them, you still want them in a visible place (for copying, backing, sharing, etc.). Or just because. The default folder has to be Documents/Pharo, not some hard to access place. A pharo image is NOT an obscure configuration library. Is much more like a document or a song than a preference. > > I am a counter-example. *I* think the Library is black magic and I manipulate images in the finder. > >> I think this is a misreading of Apple's directory design. It is for more than preferences and caches but for all app-specific files > > I am not knowledgeable on the design intent of Apple. I am just a user, and looking at what is inside the Library folder is scary. I have no documents of mine in there. > > I will stop here, I think I made my point. Feel free to disagree :-) > > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- > > Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry > PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile > >

Dec. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Install Pharo on Win 7 64 bit computer

by Dan

Thank you - forgot that Time was case sensitive - I'm learning Dan -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Install-Pharo-on-Win-7-64-bit-computer-tp4732054p4732… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Dec. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Install Pharo on Win 7 64 bit computer

by phil＠highoctane.be

Time now works too, just the time then. --- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Daniel Roe <roedj(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > I am trying to install Pharo on a Win7 64 bit computer and am following > the examples given in the manual. > > I open up a new workspace and type in > > time now > > Then choose - print it - from the action menu and I get an error message > stating that the > receiver of "now" is nil. i realize it's probably something really stupid > I'm missing but I need help please. > > Dan >

Dec. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Install Pharo on Win 7 64 bit computer

by phil＠highoctane.be

DateAndTime now --- Philippe Back Dramatic Performance Improvements Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027 Mail:phil@highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos High Octane SPRL rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/ Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast - http://spamcast.libsyn.com Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value Added Reseller On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Daniel Roe <roedj(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > I am trying to install Pharo on a Win7 64 bit computer and am following > the examples given in the manual. > > I open up a new workspace and type in > > time now > > Then choose - print it - from the action menu and I get an error message > stating that the > receiver of "now" is nil. i realize it's probably something really stupid > I'm missing but I need help please. > > Dan >

Dec. 23, 2013

Install Pharo on Win 7 64 bit computer

by Daniel Roe

I am trying to install Pharo on a Win7 64 bit computer and am following the examples given in the manual. I open up a new workspace and type in time now Then choose - print it - from the action menu and I get an error message stating that the receiver of "now" is nil. i realize it's probably something really stupid I'm missing but I need help please. Dan

Dec. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Johan Fabry

On Dec 22, 2013, at 2:51 PM, Mark Bestley <st(a)bestley.co.uk> wrote: > On 22/12/2013 14:04, Johan Fabry wrote: > >>>> Also, I think it is very wrong to keep the images in the Library >>>> folder by default. The Library is "hidden" and a "black magic - do not >>>> touch" area for the common user. A sensible default is the Documents folder. > > If a user thinks the Library is black magic then they won't be manipulating images outside of Pharo and PharoLauncher. (as I don't think they will be capable of doing so) I am a counter-example. *I* think the Library is black magic and I manipulate images in the finder. > I think this is a misreading of Apple's directory design. It is for more than preferences and caches but for all app-specific files I am not knowledgeable on the design intent of Apple. I am just a user, and looking at what is inside the Library folder is scary. I have no documents of mine in there. I will stop here, I think I made my point. Feel free to disagree :-) ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Dec. 23, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] Is there any fundamental technical barrier tocompiling to JVM byte codes?

by PBK Research

If the question is whether there is anything fundamental about /Smalltalk/ that prevents compiling to JVM, we have proof to the contrary today in the announcement on comp.lang.smalltalk of Gravel Smalltalk, which aims to run ANSI Smalltalk on the JVM. It is clearly still in alpha stage, and the developers say they do not expect to implement become: or thisContext. Whether this would cripple Pharo is beyond my knowledge. Further information at https://github.com/gravel-st/gravel . Peter Kenny -----Original Message----- From: Pharo-users [mailto:pharo-users-bounces@lists.pharo.org] On Behalf Of Andy Burnett Sent: 22 December 2013 17:38 To: pharo-users(a)lists.pharo.org Subject: [Pharo-users] Is there any fundamental technical barrier tocompiling to JVM byte codes? I am sure it would be a huge amount of work, and may not be a good idea at all. However, given the number of dynamic languages that now compile to JVM byte codes, I am curious whether there is anything about Pharo that would make this impossible? Cheers Andy

Dec. 22, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Mark Bestley

On 22/12/2013 14:04, Johan Fabry wrote: >>> Also, I think it is very wrong to keep the images in the Library folder by default. The Library is "hidden" and a "black magic - do not touch" area for the common user. A sensible default is the Documents folder. If a user thinks the Library is black magic then they won't be manipulating images outside of Pharo and PharoLauncher. (as I don't think they will be capable of doing so) > Hi Ben, > > It's cultural I would say. The purpose of the Library folder is to hold preferences, caches, et cetera. Never user documents. There is a bunch of stuff in there that actually I don't even have an idea of. Moreover, as standard the Library is a hidden folder now. > I think this is a misreading of Apple's directory design. It is for more than preferences and caches but for all app-specific files Apple's doc <https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/FileManagement/Concep…> says "Apps should use the Library directory to store app-specific (or system-specific) resources." My view is images are app-specific If Pharo Launcher does enough to do all the image manipulation you need - I think it does except for dealing with Save As.. from Pharo itself, then you do not need to have it manipulated by other tools. Also if you want to do something using an image not by Pharo then you almost certainly know enough to be able to use the Library. The ~/Library is hidden to stop users messing around with files as they have found it saves a lot of support to hide these. I would also not in Mavericks i.e. the latest version of OSX making the Library visible is a toggle on the GUI for the Library directory. For example Amazon's Kindle app puts the ebooks in ~/Library/Application Support/Kindle and these seem to me similar to Pharo images I think things should be in ~/Documents if they can be edited/seen in multiple applications. e.g > On Dec 22, 2013, at 7:50 AM, btc(a)openinworld.com wrote: > >> Johan, I don't use a Mac so... Is the "Show in folder" menu item >> not sufficient to make it less black-magic - or is there a greater cultural aversion to putting images under Library? >> >> Damien, Maybe for cross-platform consistency that is a Pharo >> feature (mostly), this should wait until there are similar installers for Windows & Linux - and my apologies I hadn't had time to work on the Windows installer - work picked up but hopefully the Christmas break will give me some time. -- Mark

Dec. 22, 2013

Is there any fundamental technical barrier to compiling to JVM byte codes?

by Andy Burnett

I am sure it would be a huge amount of work, and may not be a good idea at all. However, given the number of dynamic languages that now compile to JVM byte codes, I am curious whether there is anything about Pharo that would make this impossible? Cheers Andy

Dec. 22, 2013

Re: [Pharo-users] PharoLauncher as the default Pharo download on pharo.org?

by Johan Fabry

Hi Ben, It's cultural I would say. The purpose of the Library folder is to hold preferences, caches, et cetera. Never user documents. There is a bunch of stuff in there that actually I don't even have an idea of. Moreover, as standard the Library is a hidden folder now. On Dec 22, 2013, at 7:50 AM, btc(a)openinworld.com wrote: > Johan, I don't use a Mac so... Is the "Show in folder" menu item not sufficient to make it less black-magic - or is there a greater cultural aversion to putting images under Library? > > Damien, Maybe for cross-platform consistency that is a Pharo feature (mostly), this should wait until there are similar installers for Windows & Linux - and my apologies I hadn't had time to work on the Windows installer - work picked up but hopefully the Christmas break will give me some time. > > cheers -ben > > Johan Fabry wrote: >> Also, I think it is very wrong to keep the images in the Library folder by default. The Library is "hidden" and a "black magic - do not touch" area for the common user. A sensible default is the Documents folder. >> > ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <--- Johan Fabry - http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry PLEIAD lab - Computer Science Department (DCC) - University of Chile

Dec. 22, 2013