- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] New Pharo based solution in the wild

by Tudor Girba

Thanks you, Esteban. This is a wonderful story. Could this be posted on the Pharo blog? I love this quote: "It was a key advantage during the negotiations, we could show a wireframed live app even before our competition prepared a PowerPoint presentation." :) Keep it up, and let us know if we can help. We need success stories like this one. Cheers, Doru On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 8:16 PM, Esteban A. Maringolo <emaringolo(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Hi all, > > After one year of negotiations (demos, quotes, etc.) and a couple of > months of development, by the end of December we released a pilot > version of our pharo based solution. > The solution consists of a native mobile app (Android), with Pharo 2.0 > servers, using Seaside for the web UI, Seaside-REST for the mobile app > API and Zinc Websockets to certain "live" features of the web. The > persistence is GLORP using the native PostgreSQL driver. > > I can't disclose much more about the customer or the solution yet, it > is a private solution for a multinational consumer goods company > operating in Argentina. > > But I can comment on the numbers: > * The pilot will end in ~40 days > * It involves 50 mobile users of the Android app using it daily. > * An nginx frontend for static files and http proxying to the pharo app > servers > * Two pharo images as servers, one for the web interface, and one for > the REST API. The image is the same, they work as two separate app > servers to make use of each server and for improved reliability (I > don't want the seaside failures, which has been none yet, to affect > the REST API). > * Everything running in DigitalOcean droplets based in NYC (they add > ~180ms of latency from here but their price/value equations is > unmatched). > > Some performance numbers: > * The Pharo server uptime has been no less than perfect, the first 10 > days with uninterrupted uptime. Only shutdown to upgrade the image > (yesterday night). > * The load is minor, with peaks of ~30 concurrent mobile users during > a few "business" moments of the day, the server never passed 15% of > CPU use. The disk I/O is also small, but the database is small too > (growing daily). > > If the pilot succeeds the plan is to extend the user base to ~1000 > mobile users. But some water must pass under the bridge before > thinking of that. And if it ever happens, it is going to be gradual. > > Some anecdotal info > I quit my Smalltalk full time job at InfOil (after 9 years of > employment) to dedicate 100% to my new company. So I'm betting big on > this. By now I'm the sole Smalltalk developer (devops?) of the > company. Time has never been more scarce than nowadays. > > Why Pharo? > * Because it is the best open source Smalltalk ("inspired") out there. > * Because I have 10+ years of experience with Smalltalk I can't throw > away in the context of rapid prototyping and business domain modelling > (emphasis on this). > * It was a key advantage during the negotiations, we could show a > wireframed live app even before our competition prepared a PowerPoint > presentation. > > The development process with Pharo has been rudimentary, only > Monticello packages and a couple of workspace scripts to provision new > images. > I still can't get my head around Metacello. But honestly I haven't > dedicated as much time as it needs to be learnt. Having used VAST > ENVY's ConfigurationMaps successfully in the past is a proof I can > learn Metacello. > > During the last years at InfOil we were using git with Dolphin > Smalltalk, with CI after every git push to the main repo. This was > also linked with our issue tracking system, in order to know in which > build a certain issue was fixed. We used Dolphin's PAX's files (CVS > friendly), Gitlab, JetBrain's TeamCity and YouTrack > I'd like to do the same using Monticello's FileTree, BitBucket and > JIRA (CI server to be defined). > > Hopefully with some time, I'll be able to dive deeper into this. > My learning of Pharo tooling hasn't been straightforward, but maybe > because I'm old and spoiled with other Smalltalk dialects (VSE, VAST, > Dolphin). > I was managing the Android code (java) with git branching and merging > way before I learnt how to use Monticello. Managing the code (files) > was the only advantage of working with Eclipse/Java. Everything else > was a burden compared with Pharo. > > I wanted to share my experiences through a blog, but haven't had time > to set it up as I'd like, and by now this email is going to be all I > can share. After the pilot, we can talk about reporting a success > story for Pharo. I felt like this during the last week: > > http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/68251866244/successful-deployment-at… > > > Best regards, > > Esteban A. Maringolo > CTO (aka DevOps), http://trentosur.com > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Jan. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] New Pharo based solution in the wild

by Sean P. DeNigris

Esteban A. Maringolo wrote > After one year of negotiations (demos, quotes, etc.) and a couple of > months of development, by the end of December we released a pilot > version of our pharo based solution. Thanks for sharing all that! Very exciting. Good luck and keep us posted... ----- Cheers, Sean -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/New-Pharo-based-solution-in-the-wild-tp4734212p473421… Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Jan. 4, 2014

New Pharo based solution in the wild

by Esteban A. Maringolo

Hi all, After one year of negotiations (demos, quotes, etc.) and a couple of months of development, by the end of December we released a pilot version of our pharo based solution. The solution consists of a native mobile app (Android), with Pharo 2.0 servers, using Seaside for the web UI, Seaside-REST for the mobile app API and Zinc Websockets to certain "live" features of the web. The persistence is GLORP using the native PostgreSQL driver. I can't disclose much more about the customer or the solution yet, it is a private solution for a multinational consumer goods company operating in Argentina. But I can comment on the numbers: * The pilot will end in ~40 days * It involves 50 mobile users of the Android app using it daily. * An nginx frontend for static files and http proxying to the pharo app servers * Two pharo images as servers, one for the web interface, and one for the REST API. The image is the same, they work as two separate app servers to make use of each server and for improved reliability (I don't want the seaside failures, which has been none yet, to affect the REST API). * Everything running in DigitalOcean droplets based in NYC (they add ~180ms of latency from here but their price/value equations is unmatched). Some performance numbers: * The Pharo server uptime has been no less than perfect, the first 10 days with uninterrupted uptime. Only shutdown to upgrade the image (yesterday night). * The load is minor, with peaks of ~30 concurrent mobile users during a few "business" moments of the day, the server never passed 15% of CPU use. The disk I/O is also small, but the database is small too (growing daily). If the pilot succeeds the plan is to extend the user base to ~1000 mobile users. But some water must pass under the bridge before thinking of that. And if it ever happens, it is going to be gradual. Some anecdotal info I quit my Smalltalk full time job at InfOil (after 9 years of employment) to dedicate 100% to my new company. So I'm betting big on this. By now I'm the sole Smalltalk developer (devops?) of the company. Time has never been more scarce than nowadays. Why Pharo? * Because it is the best open source Smalltalk ("inspired") out there. * Because I have 10+ years of experience with Smalltalk I can't throw away in the context of rapid prototyping and business domain modelling (emphasis on this). * It was a key advantage during the negotiations, we could show a wireframed live app even before our competition prepared a PowerPoint presentation. The development process with Pharo has been rudimentary, only Monticello packages and a couple of workspace scripts to provision new images. I still can't get my head around Metacello. But honestly I haven't dedicated as much time as it needs to be learnt. Having used VAST ENVY's ConfigurationMaps successfully in the past is a proof I can learn Metacello. During the last years at InfOil we were using git with Dolphin Smalltalk, with CI after every git push to the main repo. This was also linked with our issue tracking system, in order to know in which build a certain issue was fixed. We used Dolphin's PAX's files (CVS friendly), Gitlab, JetBrain's TeamCity and YouTrack I'd like to do the same using Monticello's FileTree, BitBucket and JIRA (CI server to be defined). Hopefully with some time, I'll be able to dive deeper into this. My learning of Pharo tooling hasn't been straightforward, but maybe because I'm old and spoiled with other Smalltalk dialects (VSE, VAST, Dolphin). I was managing the Android code (java) with git branching and merging way before I learnt how to use Monticello. Managing the code (files) was the only advantage of working with Eclipse/Java. Everything else was a burden compared with Pharo. I wanted to share my experiences through a blog, but haven't had time to set it up as I'd like, and by now this email is going to be all I can share. After the pilot, we can talk about reporting a success story for Pharo. I felt like this during the last week: http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/68251866244/successful-deployment-at… Best regards, Esteban A. Maringolo CTO (aka DevOps), http://trentosur.com

Jan. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Help us to have really cool Pharo 3 release!

by Volkert Barr

> > Donât wait until tomorrow! > Pharo needs you TODAY! > I loaded my tools into Pharo 3.0 (Latest update: #30670). The Parts using NeoCSV and Roassal / RoassalProposals are fine. But the tool has some dependencies to EyeSee which makes small problems. They are reproducible with the ESExamples. The Diagrams are shown, but with an Exception "MessageNotUnderstood: MorphOpened>>diagramRenderer:". BW, Volkert -- Volkert Barr www.nivoba.de "The more complex an object, the larger the investment in learning to use it, and the greater the resistance to abandon it."

Jan. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Help us to have really cool Pharo 3 release!

by Benjamin

> > nice metaphor! It made me think about maradona :) So from argentinian it means that we can also play football with our hands o:) > And tons of cocaine :P Ben

Jan. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Help us to have really cool Pharo 3 release!

by StÃ©phane Ducasse

On 04 Jan 2014, at 11:17, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi guys, > > As you know, we are now in beta for Pharo 3. > That means we are just fixing bugs and improving stability (they are some attempts from some very impatient people to add yet new features, but so far we are managing them with the ability of a goal keeper :) ) nice metaphor! It made me think about maradona :) So from argentinian it means that we can also play football with our hands o:) > What we need now is your help! How? > > 1) Is NOW the moment of porting your projects to Pharo 3. Yesâ¦ is not stable, but it improves everyday and if you help us catching bugs, it will in march, when the release should happen) > 2) Report BUGS. Yepâ¦ we still have many of them. Best way to report a bug is: to add a bug entry and to open a discussion in dev mailing list. Just one of both does not works fine because we are in the run, and: if you just open the bug, we can miss his importance, if you just start a thread, we are for sure owing to be covered of work and we will forget your important change. . > 3) If you feel in the mood, you can fix some of your annoying bugs by yourself. With the introduction of Komitter (thanks Ben!) you donât even need to work in a separate imageâ¦ it can be fixed in your working image and you can send a SLICE with just the changes you want. > 4) or you can just help us reviewing fixes (usually in status âFix Reviewed By The Monkeyâ, they need to be moved to âFix To Includeâ, and that in some cases (when is UI related, for instance) requires human intervention. > > Donât wait until tomorrow! > Pharo needs you TODAY! super! > > cheers, > Esteban

Jan. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] [Pharo-dev] Help us to have really cool Pharo 3 release!

by Norbert Hartl

Iâve started two weeks ago porting my first project to pharo3. Well, I donât know the real name for the action because it was not a real porting. It just loaded in pharo3 without any interaction by me. Ok, I think this is called âinstallationâ :) Very nice! Norbert Am 04.01.2014 um 11:17 schrieb Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com>: > Hi guys, > > As you know, we are now in beta for Pharo 3. > That means we are just fixing bugs and improving stability (they are some attempts from some very impatient people to add yet new features, but so far we are managing them with the ability of a goal keeper :) ) > > What we need now is your help! How? > > 1) Is NOW the moment of porting your projects to Pharo 3. Yesâ¦ is not stable, but it improves everyday and if you help us catching bugs, it will in march, when the release should happen) > 2) Report BUGS. Yepâ¦ we still have many of them. Best way to report a bug is: to add a bug entry and to open a discussion in dev mailing list. Just one of both does not works fine because we are in the run, and: if you just open the bug, we can miss his importance, if you just start a thread, we are for sure owing to be covered of work and we will forget your important change. . > 3) If you feel in the mood, you can fix some of your annoying bugs by yourself. With the introduction of Komitter (thanks Ben!) you donât even need to work in a separate imageâ¦ it can be fixed in your working image and you can send a SLICE with just the changes you want. > 4) or you can just help us reviewing fixes (usually in status âFix Reviewed By The Monkeyâ, they need to be moved to âFix To Includeâ, and that in some cases (when is UI related, for instance) requires human intervention. > > Donât wait until tomorrow! > Pharo needs you TODAY! > > cheers, > Esteban

Jan. 4, 2014

Help us to have really cool Pharo 3 release!

by Esteban Lorenzano

Hi guys, As you know, we are now in beta for Pharo 3. That means we are just fixing bugs and improving stability (they are some attempts from some very impatient people to add yet new features, but so far we are managing them with the ability of a goal keeper :) ) What we need now is your help! How? 1) Is NOW the moment of porting your projects to Pharo 3. Yesâ¦ is not stable, but it improves everyday and if you help us catching bugs, it will in march, when the release should happen) 2) Report BUGS. Yepâ¦ we still have many of them. Best way to report a bug is: to add a bug entry and to open a discussion in dev mailing list. Just one of both does not works fine because we are in the run, and: if you just open the bug, we can miss his importance, if you just start a thread, we are for sure owing to be covered of work and we will forget your important change. . 3) If you feel in the mood, you can fix some of your annoying bugs by yourself. With the introduction of Komitter (thanks Ben!) you donât even need to work in a separate imageâ¦ it can be fixed in your working image and you can send a SLICE with just the changes you want. 4) or you can just help us reviewing fixes (usually in status âFix Reviewed By The Monkeyâ, they need to be moved to âFix To Includeâ, and that in some cases (when is UI related, for instance) requires human intervention. Donât wait until tomorrow! Pharo needs you TODAY! cheers, Esteban

Jan. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Porting to Bleeding Edge (was Spotlight Demo)

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

Hi Sean, I seem to remember that building up to 2.0 you fixed lots of usability bugs/problems ;-) Yes, we have a new debugger and inspector (and the browser is evolving as well), which does indeed mean that there are sometimes issues with these essential tools. This is annoying, but the only way to move forward is to eat our own dogwood and help report and fix the remaining issues. Ultimately, it is your own choice, of course. Depending on your needs, the good old trusted 2.0 might be a better (business) choice indeed. But for new developments like your demo, using 3.0 might be more logical, as Doru suggested. I am/have been using 3.0 exclusively as well. Sven On 04 Jan 2014, at 05:00, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > Tudor Girba-2 wrote >>> You would recommend 3.0 even for production systems? >> I certainly do recommend it. I am using it since 3 months in production, >> and for my purposes (mainly using Moose for various analyses), it works >> perfectly. > > I debated whether to post this, since I certainly do not want to discourage > people from porting, or take away any enthusiasm for the upcoming release, > but thought it was an important user experience... > > I took the seemingly unanimous advice from the Spotlight thread, and tried > to work in 3.0. The first time I brought up a debugger (which is a frequent > occurrence in my workflow), I tried to DoIt "self selectedItem", and the > debugger replied that it did not know the variable selectedItem and would I > like to create an instance/temporary variableâ¦ huh?! I quickly ran into a > few more slowdowns and annoyances (like all-repos-shown-in-MC-browser). > > So I was in the position that I had invested part of my limited time window > getting set up on 3.0, only to figure out that I couldn't do something > essential. Even to report the bug would've eaten up more time. I slunk back > to 2.0 and got back to work for the time I had left. > > Do we want 3.0 to be banged on as much as possible? Yes! > Is it amazingly stable given the breath and depth of changes to core? Yes! > > But I don't think the decision is a slam dunk no-brainer just yetâ¦ > > > > ----- > Cheers, > Sean > -- > View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Porting-to-Bleeding-Edge-was-Spotlight-Demo-tp4734028… > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >

Jan. 4, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Porting to Bleeding Edge (was Spotlight Demo)

by Marcus Denker

On 04 Jan 2014, at 10:36, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > you just hit *the* bug we were havingâ¦ but AFAIK it should fixed now. > Which version did you tried? > Yes, and it was an unfortunate bugâ¦ I nearly reverted the causing issue 20 minutes after introducing it. But then I did not, and then it was christmas, and then we had (have) trouble with the buildâ¦ so it took more than one week to get it fixed. (introduced friday, fixed monday a week later). > Esteban > > On 04 Jan 2014, at 05:00, Sean P. DeNigris <sean(a)clipperadams.com> wrote: > >> Tudor Girba-2 wrote >>>> You would recommend 3.0 even for production systems? >>> I certainly do recommend it. I am using it since 3 months in production, >>> and for my purposes (mainly using Moose for various analyses), it works >>> perfectly. >> >> I debated whether to post this, since I certainly do not want to discourage >> people from porting, or take away any enthusiasm for the upcoming release, >> but thought it was an important user experience... >> >> I took the seemingly unanimous advice from the Spotlight thread, and tried >> to work in 3.0. The first time I brought up a debugger (which is a frequent >> occurrence in my workflow), I tried to DoIt "self selectedItem", and the >> debugger replied that it did not know the variable selectedItem and would I >> like to create an instance/temporary variableâ¦ huh?! I quickly ran into a >> few more slowdowns and annoyances (like all-repos-shown-in-MC-browser). >> >> So I was in the position that I had invested part of my limited time window >> getting set up on 3.0, only to figure out that I couldn't do something >> essential. Even to report the bug would've eaten up more time. I slunk back >> to 2.0 and got back to work for the time I had left. >> >> Do we want 3.0 to be banged on as much as possible? Yes! >> Is it amazingly stable given the breath and depth of changes to core? Yes! >> >> But I don't think the decision is a slam dunk no-brainer just yetâ¦ >> >> >> >> ----- >> Cheers, >> Sean >> -- >> View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/Porting-to-Bleeding-Edge-was-Spotlight-Demo-tp4734028… >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> > >

Jan. 4, 2014