- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by Stephan Eggermont

Robert wrote >I'm dragging and dropping in a fresh install No, you are not. You are dropping a new image on an old vm. Replace the vm and retry. Stephan

Feb. 26, 2014

Pharo-Business: a new mailing-list

by Pharo4Stef

Dear Pharoers and Smalltalkers from all over the world We would really like to push business in our community and we believe that it is important to create a community around business questions. We created a new mailing-list http://lists.pharo.org/mailman/listinfo/pharo-business_lists.pharo.org The idea is to identify - potential market - missing technical solutions that we could build together - share technical assets from a business perspective (which frameworks for what). We hope that you will like the idea and that more business can emerge!

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by Pharo4Stef

On 26 Feb 2014, at 19:16, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Stef > > I'm dragging and dropping in a fresh install > > first the image with the install > > then quit and again drag-drop the numbered image from latest.zip as copied in by me manually ( only manual step after target dir named for install ) > > I have some neuro-motor issues now, but they mostly impact my typing skills ... there is only one EXE in the folder and I go slowly on the touchpad, so this is not on me in any obvious thumbs-fumble ( the only way I go now - slow and fumbliing ;-) > > Then I just do my most regular "flip about" routine ... we used to call it "kicking the tires" ... a pilot can have a pre-flight walk-around protocol because the design of the plane did not change since it last landed ;-) Explain to us what you do exactly. Record a video if necessary. We want to chase these bugs if any. Stef > > regards > > robert > spelling via Google gmail > > > > > > On 26 February 2014 09:07, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > robert > > Are you sure that you really use the latest version? > Because I do not see why opening a window would be platform specific and I could not reproduce this problem. > So do you have a real way to reproduce the problem? can you send us the debuglog? > And BTW Pharo is our and your system and we work all to make it better so no need to be pushy it does not help. > > Stef > > > On 26 Feb 2014, at 12:38, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> regardless ... >> >> I did a sanity check on the contents of yesterday's latest.zip and hit a walkback >> >> I then did a sanity check on the latest 3.0 installer and hit a different walkback. >> >> At least on Win XP 3.1 that does not feel like Beta but like alpha, in my experience. Unstable. >> >> Sanity check for a Smalltalk image >> >> open a browser >> open a workspace >> flip about in the browser [across packages, classes, instance view, class view, implementors and callers >> DoIt from workspace [never got here either time ; I would do smthg like a ProfStef or call up a browser ; no set routine as that way lies madness ] >> >> AND while doing the above, flip between windows, max /min [ I have been doing this for years ... it takes only a couple of minutes - it is not a step-wise protocol .... that would result in missing things that you wouldn't expect - and it is in NO way exhaustive ... it is just a sanity check ( Do you know what year it is? Who is the President of USA ? What is today's date ? How did you get here ? Do you know why you were [arrested/admitted/removed from the aircraft/booted outa the bar ... ) ] >> >> Hunch ONLY : >> >> Likely culprit ... each time I also opened for future use (and to have some frames open >> Metacello browser >> the 2 help items off the main popup menu (one general; one Tutorials - a new user is likely to do so ) >> >> I suspect one of the latter, based on Last Class Changed for that image ... but that will be my hunch for now ... >> >> ciao >> >> r >> >> >> >> >> On 26 February 2014 07:18, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On 26 Feb 2014, at 11:30, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> "BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community." >>> >>> This still rankles ... I have been a Smalltalker since long before Squeak and have been using Pharo since Seaside first ran on it - if not earlier than that ... >>> >>> I also received from another on the mail list >>> >>> "and in fact I cannot reproduce it." >>> >>> "And in fact" is such a wicked rhetorical move ... in a game I have lost all interest in playing now that I am retired. >> >> it is not. >> it was just saying that I tried your problem and I could not reproduce it. It was not to been rethorical or anything, just pointing a fact. >> Iâm interested (and is also my job) on having the best and stable version of Pharo possible. >> Iâm so interested that I was at 10min from leaving a my house to take an 10h fly and I sit to try to reproduce your problem. >> So, pleaseâ¦ do not misinterpret the contents of the mail. It was an attempt to have an understanding of the problem, in an effort to help. >> An effort, btw, that sometimes is not easy, because we do not have all the elements to make the diagnosticâ¦ >> >>> >>> It may take me a lot of effort to track these 2 bugs down as far as "Follow these steps to reproduce" .. but then I am not a CONSORTIUM member ( I used to pay big bucks for Smalltalk, back in the day ) so may be I am too far outside the "whole community".... btw. >> >> The community is here. In this list. Around the list. >> Consortium is for companies willing to contribute with some money support (and so is the association for individuals), because things cost effort and effort implies time and time implies money. >> We always try to solve the problems of everybody (we, the community, including yourself), because thatâs the best for allâ¦ so do not put yourself outside in a way we never say/act/even think about. >> We want to help you. >> >>> >>> I will spare you my plot's view of the term "stable" and the notion of stability ... and will be sure I rename key files as I go along ... [ why are we still having to rename files such as these when able to run multiple images in the same dir ? ] >> >> Your pov about stability can be ok. What is not ok is such amount of negativity over a simple fact: we has not been able to reproduce your problem (but you avoid the other obvious fact: we tried to reproduce it. So we did not ignored you). >> >> Again, I try to help, as everybody in the communityâ¦ but such a negative over-reaction is probably just compared to my own overeacted answer :) >> >> Esteban >> >> >>> >>> ciao >>> >>> >>> >>> On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >>> >>> On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI >>update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for >>> > receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil >>> > >>> > I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that toggle back. >>> > >>> > Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be unstable ? >>> >>> I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific. >>> >>> BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so issues are always possible. >>> >>> Sven >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by Robert Shiplett

Stef I'm dragging and dropping in a fresh install first the image with the install then quit and again drag-drop the numbered image from latest.zip as copied in by me manually ( only manual step after target dir named for install ) I have some neuro-motor issues now, but they mostly impact my typing skills ... there is only one EXE in the folder and I go slowly on the touchpad, so this is not on me in any obvious thumbs-fumble ( the only way I go now - slow and fumbliing ;-) Then I just do my most regular "flip about" routine ... we used to call it "kicking the tires" ... a pilot can have a pre-flight walk-around protocol because the design of the plane did not change since it last landed ;-) regards robert spelling via Google gmail On 26 February 2014 09:07, Pharo4Stef <pharo4Stef(a)free.fr> wrote: > robert > > Are you sure that you really use the latest version? > Because I do not see why opening a window would be platform specific and I > could not reproduce this problem. > So do you have a real way to reproduce the problem? can you send us the > debuglog? > And BTW Pharo is our and your system and we work all to make it better so > no need to be pushy it does not help. > > Stef > > > On 26 Feb 2014, at 12:38, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > regardless ... > > I did a sanity check on the contents of yesterday's latest.zip and hit a > walkback > > I then did a sanity check on the latest 3.0 installer and hit a different > walkback. > > At least on Win XP 3.1 that does not feel like Beta but like alpha, in my > experience. Unstable. > > Sanity check for a Smalltalk image > > open a browser > open a workspace > flip about in the browser [across packages, classes, instance view, > class view, implementors and callers > DoIt from workspace [never got here either time ; I would do smthg like > a ProfStef or call up a browser ; no set routine as that way lies madness ] > > AND while doing the above, flip between windows, max /min [ I have been > doing this for years ... it takes only a couple of minutes - it is not a > step-wise protocol .... that would result in missing things that you > wouldn't expect - and it is in NO way exhaustive ... it is just a sanity > check ( Do you know what year it is? Who is the President of USA ? What is > today's date ? How did you get here ? Do you know why you were > [arrested/admitted/removed from the aircraft/booted outa the bar ... ) ] > > Hunch ONLY : > > Likely culprit ... each time I also opened for future use (and to have > some frames open > Metacello browser > the 2 help items off the main popup menu (one general; one Tutorials - > a new user is likely to do so ) > > I suspect one of the latter, based on Last Class Changed for that image > ... but that will be my hunch for now ... > > ciao > > r > > > > > On 26 February 2014 07:18, Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> On 26 Feb 2014, at 11:30, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> "BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community." >> >> This still rankles ... I have been a Smalltalker since long before Squeak >> and have been using Pharo since Seaside first ran on it - if not earlier >> than that ... >> >> I also received from another on the mail list >> >> "and in fact I cannot reproduce it." >> >> "And in fact" is such a wicked rhetorical move ... in a game I have lost >> all interest in playing now that I am retired. >> >> >> it is not. >> it was just saying that I tried your problem and I could not reproduce >> it. It was not to been rethorical or anything, just pointing a fact. >> Iâm interested (and is also my job) on having the best and stable version >> of Pharo possible. >> Iâm so interested that I was at 10min from leaving a my house to take an >> 10h fly and I sit to try to reproduce your problem. >> So, pleaseâ¦ do not misinterpret the contents of the mail. It was an >> attempt to have an understanding of the problem, in an effort to help. >> An effort, btw, that sometimes is not easy, because we do not have all >> the elements to make the diagnosticâ¦ >> >> >> It may take me a lot of effort to track these 2 bugs down as far as >> "Follow these steps to reproduce" .. but then I am not a CONSORTIUM member >> ( I used to pay big bucks for Smalltalk, back in the day ) so may be I am >> too far outside the "whole community".... btw. >> >> >> The community is here. In this list. Around the list. >> Consortium is for companies willing to contribute with some money support >> (and so is the association for individuals), because things cost effort and >> effort implies time and time implies money. >> We always try to solve the problems of everybody (we, the community, >> including yourself), because thatâs the best for allâ¦ so do not put >> yourself outside in a way we never say/act/even think about. >> We want to help you. >> >> >> I will spare you my plot's view of the term "stable" and the notion of >> stability ... and will be sure I rename key files as I go along ... [ why >> are we still having to rename files such as these when able to run multiple >> images in the same dir ? ] >> >> >> Your pov about stability can be ok. What is not ok is such amount of >> negativity over a simple fact: we has not been able to reproduce your >> problem (but you avoid the other obvious fact: we tried to reproduce it. So >> we did not ignored you). >> >> Again, I try to help, as everybody in the communityâ¦ but such a negative >> over-reaction is probably just compared to my own overeacted answer :) >> >> Esteban >> >> >> >> ciao >> >> >> >> On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: >> >>> >>> On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI >>> >>update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for >>> > receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil >>> > >>> > I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that >>> toggle back. >>> > >>> > Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be >>> unstable ? >>> >>> I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific. >>> >>> BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of >>> course, it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system >>> interactions, so issues are always possible. >>> >>> Sven >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > >

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by btc＠openinworld.com

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by Robert Shiplett

I am dragging the image onto the pharo.exe in a newlynamed folder using an install whose README says date of Feb 25 COPY Pharo 3.0 This distribution was built February 25, 2014. as for that pharo.exe created and last mod date is 12 7 2013 the dir is C:\Pharo3.0-winB\Pharo3.0 and the dates for that Pharo3.0 dub-dir is today a few hours ago so if a drag-drop of Pharo-30782.image onto that exe in that same folder has some obscure path issue, that is a worry I would think. On 26 February 2014 08:52, Torsten Bergmann <astares(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Dear Robert, > > I doubt that it is a general issue as I regulary try on various XP > combinations > (even today) and therefore guess that it is a local problem on your single > machine. > > As you have other images and older VM's floating around it may be an > issue that you start the image with an old outdated VM. > > Note that when you double click the image to start the Windows OS will use > the > executable (VM) which is associated with the *.image extension. If you had > older VM installations (Squeak or other) this may conflict. > > Just to make sure can you please exactly follow these steps: > > 1. download and extract http://files.pharo.org/image/30/latest.zip in a > fresh directory > 2. download and extract http://files.pharo.org/vm/pharo/win/stable.zipinto the same directory > 3. go to this directory and drag the Pharo image "Pharo-30782.image" onto > the "Pharo.exe" > to make sure the system is exactly started with this combination and > no other VM or image > is involved > > Then tell us if this works or (if it still fails) what the system reprorts > to you > initially. > > You should also check: in World Menu -> "Tools" -> "SystemReporter", there > you > should check the entry "VM general" which will tell you excactly the VM you > are running on. > > If you select all entries in this "System Reporter" you can send the > report here > so we know more about your environment. > > Thx > T. > > > > > >

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by btc＠openinworld.com

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by phil＠highoctane.be

Latest VM from Zeroconf gives: 'NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Feb 25 2014 NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Feb 25 2014 https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: 66f4cf9345ba43bc232646d59b5e9369c369caba Date: 2014-02-25 11:45:12 +0100 By: Esteban Lorenzano <estebanlm(a)gmail.com> Jenkins build #14806 ' Yours appear to be much older. I have a spare XP laptop on my other desk, I'll give it a shot. Phil On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:51 PM, <btc(a)openinworld.com> wrote: > Hi Robert, > > I am on Windows 7 SP1 so am probably in a good position to try to > replicate. Trying to align with your screen snapshot this is what I've > done: > 1. Downloaded and launched fresh image build 30782 with PharoLauncher. > 2. Clicked World > System Browser > 3. Clicked on Announcements-View, AnnouncementSpy, [class-side] checkbox, > instance creation, openOn:, [class-side] checkbox > and all is fine. > Can you detail where your test procedure differs from that? > ----- > > Do you have any startup scripts under > C:\Users\$yourAccount\AppData\Roaming\pharo > or have you saved any preferences. (btw, if there a command line option to > avoid processing startup and preference files, it would be useful in this > situation to remove doubt?) > > I can't think where a difference may lie except the operating system > version. Can you know someone with Windows 7 or 8 your can test Pharo from > a USB stick. > ----- > > If I put (self haltOnce) at the top of EdgeGripMorph>>mouseMove: a large > amount of clicking around the <Class-side> cannot trigger the breakpoint. > This only triggers if I drag edge of the Browser window to change its > size. So is there some interaction that occurs with that in your testing? > ----- > > Now it seems the problem is that _lastMouse_ instance is nil. > Investigating shows this has only three relevant references (from the > debugger, right-click on the variable in the bottom left pane and choose > <List Methods Using "lastMouse". These are: > * AbstractResizerMorph>>mouseDown: > * EdgeGripMorph>>mouseMove: > * EdgeGripMorph>>mouseDown: - which overrides AbstractResizerMorph, so for > our purposes there are only two relevant references to _lastMouse_ > #mouseDown is the only method that stores into _lastMouse_ which is > guaranteed to be non-nil since the collection is hardcoded. > So it appears that #mouseDown should be called before #mouseMove and it is > not. > > Try putting the following code at the top of #mouseDown and #mouseMove > Transcript crShow: thisContext printString , ' <-- ' , thisContext > sender printString , ' (', lastMouse printString , ')'. > > Then doing the following: > 1. Clicked World > System Browser > 2. Grabbed bottom edge and dragged up to make window smaller. > I get... > WindowEdgeGripMorph(EdgeGripMorph)>>mouseDown: <-- > WindowEdgeGripMorph>>mouseDown: (nil) > WindowEdgeGripMorph(EdgeGripMorph)>>mouseMove: <-- > WindowEdgeGripMorph>>mouseMove: ({(641@664). (432.0(a)3.0) (30@ -2.0)}) > WindowEdgeGripMorph(EdgeGripMorph)>>mouseMove: <-- > WindowEdgeGripMorph>>mouseMove: ({(641@663). (432.0(a)3.0) (30@ -2.0)}) > WindowEdgeGripMorph(EdgeGripMorph)>>mouseMove: <-- > WindowEdgeGripMorph>>mouseMove: ({(641@656). (432.0(a)3.0) (30@ -2.0)}) > > ----- > btw, my VM is same as yours... > NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: > acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Dec 7 2013 > NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid: > acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Dec 7 2013 > https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit: > 71adca113a9aff2876288927e5c1c86bf7ac13e2 > Date: 2013-12-07 05:00:47 -0800 By: Philippe Back <philippeback(a)gmail.com><philippeback(a)gmail.com>Jenkins build #14776 > > cheers -ben > P.S. I've not encountered a problem like that with Nautilus in the past 3 > months I've been using it - but different environments can dig out corner > cases. Good luck. > > Robert Shiplett wrote: > > hit another walkback first > > screenshot attached > > this must be Windows XP 3.1 issue ... > > > On 26 February 2014 04:36, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > >> >> On 26 Feb 2014, at 01:57, Robert Shiplett <grshiplett(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > I am running from that latest.zip tonight and PackageTreeNautilusUI >> >>update is getting a walkback messageNoUnderstood for >> > receiver of >>protocolsFor: is nil >> > >> > I simply flipped to class view in Announcements and then flipped that >> toggle back. >> > >> > Does this need to be reported, or is Nautilus still known to be >> unstable ? >> >> I can't reproduce this either, please be more specific. >> >> BTW, Nautilus is stable and used daily by the whole community. Of course, >> it is a complex piece of code with lots of UI and system interactions, so >> issues are always possible. >> >> Sven >> >> >> >> > > ------------------------------ > > >

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Pharo 3.0 on Windows 8.1

by Tudor Girba

Beautiful! Doru On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 3:47 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu> wrote: > Pharo 3.0 on Windows 8.1 > > Installing and running Pharo 3.0 on a blank Windows 8.1 machine in under 1 > minute. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKokxrQtrg0 > > With an extra minute to demo some elementary interactions. > > Sven > > -- > Sven Van Caekenberghe > Proudly supporting Pharo > http://pharo.org > http://association.pharo.org > http://consortium.pharo.org > > > > > > -- www.tudorgirba.com "Every thing has its own flow"

Feb. 26, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Which one should I download?

by btc＠openinworld.com

Feb. 26, 2014