- Pharo-users - lists.pharo.org

Re: [Pharo-users] Math Ontologie on Pharo 3.0

by ClÃ©ment Bera

2014-09-09 14:12 GMT+02:00 Alain Busser <alain.busser(a)gmail.com>: > Is this a reproducible case? > http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/MathsOntologie/MathsOntologie-AlainBusser.68.mcz > > Well I tried to merge that in the latest Pharo 4. With Opal I got the error 'unknown character' With the old compiler I got unmatched string quote. If it's French, could it be a ' ? It looks like a parser bug to me... I hope not :-) > > Alain > > On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 5:43 AM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> What kind of bug do you have with accent ? Do you have a stack trace ? >> >> More importantly, can you give us a reproducible case ? I will >> investigate tomorrow if you have a reproducible case to check if this is >> due to Opal. >> >> It may also be recent changes related to fonts. >> >> 2014-09-08 21:07 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: >> >>> I don't think it is related to Opal: I made a test class with an >>> instance variable, accessor and class comment with accents - which I can >>> file out and file in: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I tested in 3.0 and 4.0 >>> >>> The problem might be with Monticello. >>> >>> >>> On 08 Sep 2014, at 20:05, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: >>> >>> > Oh, by the way, it looks like the accents are on the instance variable >>> names. >>> > >>> > I edited the subject to not pollute the original discussion thread. >>> > >>> > Hilaire >>> > >>> > Le 08/09/2014 20:01, Hilaire a Ã©crit : >>> >> Marcus, >>> >> >>> >> Alain's MathOntologie package provide Classes and Messages with French >>> >> accent, to ease the understanding of programming to high school >>> students. >>> >> I am suspecting the new compiler or something related does not >>> accepted >>> >> accented caracters or something different to ASCII. >>> >> >>> >> Alain, in your package I noted the sources is not utf-8 but >>> iso-8859-15 >>> >> (8 bits), I converted it to utf-8 and tried to get it loaded in >>> Pharo3, >>> >> but still accent characters caused problem, see screenshot. >>> >> >>> >> Enclosed source file utf-8 converted and improper imported source code >>> >> with accented variable name. >>> >> >>> >> Hilaire >>> >> >>> >> Le 08/09/2014 12:18, Alain Busser a Ã©crit : >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> >>> I don't know if it is related but I have problems importing french >>> files >>> >>> inside Pharo 3: Anytime when there is an accentuated character there >>> is >>> >>> an error, and the file is not imported. Even if the character is a >>> quote >>> >>> inside double quotes (like in "it don't work") there is an error >>> >>> message. Right now I can't import MathsOntologie >>> >>> ( >>> http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/MathsOntologie/MathsOntologie-AlainBusser.68.mcz >>> ) >>> >>> >>> >>> into Pharo 3 and I have to go on developing it in Pharo 1.4... >>> >>> >>> >>> Alain >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu >>> > iStoa - http://istao.drgeo.eu >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> >

Sept. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] The fourth R

by jannik laval

Hi, 2014-09-07 13:02 GMT+02:00 Alain Busser <alain.busser(a)gmail.com>: > Strangely, I am preparing a Python session for pupils who are supposed ti > know almost nothing about programming; and I finally came up with the > turtle module! I realized that > > *COBOL has been invented so that people who work in banks and do not know > how to program, can program > *Basic was supposed to be usable by beginners (hence the "b" letter); > which imho is false > *LOGO has been invented so that such silly creatures as robots could > program; and of course children could program in LOGO (and even, as I read, > tech programmation at the age of 4) > *Smalltalk has been created to cope with the mice and windows, but > thinking about programmation for children (hence, Etoys and Scratch) > *In France there was a thing called "LSE" which was supposed to help > writing the program in a language neighboring French language. No one > remembers that, but there were other experiments like "execalgo" or > "algobox" (not mentionning MathsOntologie ;-)) > > > Seeing that, I realize that a programming tool especially made for > children is not really a new idea, but Python is cool for that. In France > too Python is heavily used, especially for students. What surprises me is > that the English government choose Python for *children* instead of, say, > Scratch. I would not use xMaxima to teach fractions just because xMaxima is > able to compute integrals! > > To conclude, for me, Phratch on Android is the future in that domain ;-) > Thank you to make advertisement for phratch. I hope to see it on Android soon. Cheers, Jannik > > > Alain > > > On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 2:29 PM, kilon alios <kilon.alios(a)gmail.com> wrote: > >> Python has no competition. Sure there are languages that are more popular >> than Python for their own reasons. There have been simpler languages before >> python, there have been more popular languages, more cross platform >> languages etc etc but Python fills a gap that no language was able to fill >> before it , easy to use very powerful well documented libraries. Python is >> a language that you can teach to a kid now and make a living later on using >> until his or her old age. Its not because the language is simple , its >> simple enough but not the simplest. Its because the culture surrounding the >> creation of libraries . That culture has a name its called "pythonic" >> >> Beautiful is better than ugly. >> Explicit is better than implicit. >> Simple is better than complex. >> Complex is better than complicated. >> Flat is better than nested. >> Sparse is better than dense. >> Readability counts. >> Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules. >> Although practicality beats purity. >> Errors should never pass silently. >> Unless explicitly silenced. >> In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess. >> There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it. >> Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch. >> Now is better than never. >> Although never is often better than *right* now. >> If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea. >> If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea. >> Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those! >> >> >> this kind of ideology is why Python has been so successful. It has also inspired jokes like this >> >> >> http://xkcd.com/353/ >> >> it may look funny and it says thinks about overestimating the simplicity of those libraries but python does feel at times as simple as this, as simple as importing antigravity. >> >> So if a kid comes to me and ask me "what language should I learn" , I will recommend a language that is fairly easy to learn , has powerful library , easy to use libraries , well documented and its a language that will able to keep using even if his or her needs change, forever. For that only Python is the language that has been able to succeed and I think its adoption will continue to progress in educational institutions pretty much everywhere on the planet. >> >> >> Referring to the rest of your post I dont agree that we need to separate Data from Code, I think quite opossite that a kid needs to be taught why Code and Data are one and what that means in practice. I also don't agree that OO or functional programming or any other programming paradigm I am aware of are the future. They are simple solutions for simpler times. The coding community at large the way I see it is in denial hoping to apply simple recipes to solve complex problems. We need very complex solutions to very complex problems , we need tools that can interact with the user in many diffirent ways. >> >> Pharo is definitely showing the future, the close integration of IDE , language and environment. But thats is just the start, the next step is powerful tools that can deeply interact with code and solve automagically logical coding problems. Obviously all that has to be wrapped to an easy enough interface for the user even if the solutions is very complex. >> >> Fortunately this where the rest of the coding world is heading. For example iPython is one of the most popular python projects right and it offers a highly interactive environment for python coders that shares a lot of similarities with Pharo though the implementation is very different. >> >> So the future is no longer languages , is no longer IDEs , its not even environments but tools that are produced in these environments that can vastly automate coding and hide the increasing complexity of coding solutions. Maybe one day a child will be able to describe to a computer what kind of software he or she needs and the computer automatically generate the code for it. That day is not close enough but is where we are heading. >> >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Trygve Reenskaug <trygver(a)ifi.uio.no> >> wrote: >> >>> I have for some time been pondering two problems. One is to identify >>> the fourth R in *R*eading, w*R*iting, a*R*ithmetic, and p*R*ogramming. >>> There are many contenders for the kids' first step. I believe the English >>> government has chosen Phyton as a first language. Scratch has a certain >>> popularity, there are many others. My concern is "what comes next"? I want >>> the kid to gradually build a mental model of what computing is all about. >>> Learn a little, do a little, lean more, do more, etc. up do old age. This >>> goes much deeper than any programming language. It's a bit as learning to >>> read. Personally, I "broke the reading code"at an early age. Since then, I >>> have been learning more and more. What I read today would have been >>> incomprehensible to me 75 years ago. But my basic mental model of what >>> reading is all about has remained unchanged. I have never had to unlearn >>> anything. >>> >>> I suggest that true object orientation (not class orientation) can form >>> the foundation for the human mental model of computing. Internalize it and >>> live with it forever. >>> ------------------------------------- >>> The other problem is to find a better example for DCI presentations. It >>> should >>> >>> 1. Be executable and have a cool demo effect. >>> 2. Its domain model should be obvious from the demo. >>> 3. It should have very few and very simple Data classes. >>> 4. It should have a Context that is clearly and obviously >>> separate from the Data. >>> 5. It should scale to any number of Contexts (use cases) without >>> changing the Data classes. >>> >>> ----------------------------------------- >>> *Last night I got an idea for an example: A waltzing couple. (See the >>> attached for a picture and Wikipedia for a movie of the use case).* >>> >>> The program needs one simple class for a moveable shape and a DCI >>> Context for each dance (waltz, foxtrot, tango, ... for two role, polonaise >>> for more.) The example will clearly demonstrate the wisdom in separating >>> what the system IS from what the system DOES since the simple Shape class >>> would be overloaded with instance methods for all dances. >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >>> --Trygve >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Trygve Reenskaug mailto: trygver(a)ifi.uio.no >>> Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/ >>> N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info >>> Norway Tel: (+47) 22 49 57 27 >>> >> >> > -- ~~Jannik Laval~~ Ãcole des Mines de Douai Enseignant-chercheur http://www.jannik-laval.eu http://www.phratch.com http://www.approchealpes.info http://car.mines-douai.fr/

Sept. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Math Ontologie on Pharo 3.0

by Alain Busser

Is this a reproducible case? http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/MathsOntologie/MathsOntologie-AlainBusser.68.mcz I hope not :-) Alain On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 5:43 AM, ClÃ©ment Bera <bera.clement(a)gmail.com> wrote: > What kind of bug do you have with accent ? Do you have a stack trace ? > > More importantly, can you give us a reproducible case ? I will investigate > tomorrow if you have a reproducible case to check if this is due to Opal. > > It may also be recent changes related to fonts. > > 2014-09-08 21:07 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > >> I don't think it is related to Opal: I made a test class with an instance >> variable, accessor and class comment with accents - which I can file out >> and file in: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I tested in 3.0 and 4.0 >> >> The problem might be with Monticello. >> >> >> On 08 Sep 2014, at 20:05, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: >> >> > Oh, by the way, it looks like the accents are on the instance variable >> names. >> > >> > I edited the subject to not pollute the original discussion thread. >> > >> > Hilaire >> > >> > Le 08/09/2014 20:01, Hilaire a Ã©crit : >> >> Marcus, >> >> >> >> Alain's MathOntologie package provide Classes and Messages with French >> >> accent, to ease the understanding of programming to high school >> students. >> >> I am suspecting the new compiler or something related does not accepted >> >> accented caracters or something different to ASCII. >> >> >> >> Alain, in your package I noted the sources is not utf-8 but iso-8859-15 >> >> (8 bits), I converted it to utf-8 and tried to get it loaded in Pharo3, >> >> but still accent characters caused problem, see screenshot. >> >> >> >> Enclosed source file utf-8 converted and improper imported source code >> >> with accented variable name. >> >> >> >> Hilaire >> >> >> >> Le 08/09/2014 12:18, Alain Busser a Ã©crit : >> >>> Hi, >> >>> >> >>> I don't know if it is related but I have problems importing french >> files >> >>> inside Pharo 3: Anytime when there is an accentuated character there >> is >> >>> an error, and the file is not imported. Even if the character is a >> quote >> >>> inside double quotes (like in "it don't work") there is an error >> >>> message. Right now I can't import MathsOntologie >> >>> ( >> http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/MathsOntologie/MathsOntologie-AlainBusser.68.mcz >> ) >> >>> >> >>> into Pharo 3 and I have to go on developing it in Pharo 1.4... >> >>> >> >>> Alain >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu >> > iStoa - http://istao.drgeo.eu >> > >> > >> >> >> >

Sept. 9, 2014

FFI signatures

by Annick Fron

What signature should I use for a callback ? âulongâ does not seem to work Annick

Sept. 9, 2014

FFI signatures

by Annick Fron

What signature should I use for a callback ? âulongâ does not seem to work Annick

Sept. 9, 2014

FFI callbacks

by Annick Fron

In order to use the callbacks, I need to write a pragma in the Callback class for the signature. My signature is something like (where ulong means pointer) void (ulong ulong long long ulong) Can you help me ? Here is an example for another signature : !Callback methodsFor: 'signatures' stamp: 'eem 11/1/2010 16:40'! intcharstarRetint: callbackContext sp: spAlien <signature: 'int (*)(int, char *)' abi: 'IA32'> ^callbackContext wordResult: ((block value: (spAlien signedLongAt: 1) ~= 0 value: (Alien forPointer: (spAlien unsignedLongAt: 5)) strcpyUTF8) ifNil: [0] ifNotNil: [:result| result isInteger ifTrue: [result] ifFalse: [result == true ifTrue: [1] ifFalse: [0]]])! !

Sept. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Gettext with pharo 3 and seaside 3.1.2

by Marcus Denker

I will have a look and checkâ¦ (with the first goal to add an issue tracker entry for it) On 08 Sep 2014, at 20:01, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > Marcus, > > Alain's MathOntologie package provide Classes and Messages with French accent, to ease the understanding of programming to high school students. > I am suspecting the new compiler or something related does not accepted accented caracters or something different to ASCII. > > Alain, in your package I noted the sources is not utf-8 but iso-8859-15 (8 bits), I converted it to utf-8 and tried to get it loaded in Pharo3, but still accent characters caused problem, see screenshot. > > Enclosed source file utf-8 converted and improper imported source code with accented variable name. > > Hilaire > > Le 08/09/2014 12:18, Alain Busser a Ã©crit : >> Hi, >> >> I don't know if it is related but I have problems importing french files >> inside Pharo 3: Anytime when there is an accentuated character there is >> an error, and the file is not imported. Even if the character is a quote >> inside double quotes (like in "it don't work") there is an error >> message. Right now I can't import MathsOntologie >> (http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/MathsOntologie/MathsOntologie-AlainBusser.68.mcz) >> into Pharo 3 and I have to go on developing it in Pharo 1.4... >> >> Alain >> > > > -- > Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu > iStoa - http://istao.drgeo.eu > <mathontologieimport.png><source2.st.zip>

Sept. 9, 2014

[Smalltalks 2014] --- Invitation

by Andres Valloud

Sept. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Math Ontologie on Pharo 3.0

by ClÃ©ment Bera

What kind of bug do you have with accent ? Do you have a stack trace ? More importantly, can you give us a reproducible case ? I will investigate tomorrow if you have a reproducible case to check if this is due to Opal. It may also be recent changes related to fonts. 2014-09-08 21:07 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe <sven(a)stfx.eu>: > I don't think it is related to Opal: I made a test class with an instance > variable, accessor and class comment with accents - which I can file out > and file in: > > > > > > > > I tested in 3.0 and 4.0 > > The problem might be with Monticello. > > On 08 Sep 2014, at 20:05, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > > > Oh, by the way, it looks like the accents are on the instance variable > names. > > > > I edited the subject to not pollute the original discussion thread. > > > > Hilaire > > > > Le 08/09/2014 20:01, Hilaire a Ã©crit : > >> Marcus, > >> > >> Alain's MathOntologie package provide Classes and Messages with French > >> accent, to ease the understanding of programming to high school > students. > >> I am suspecting the new compiler or something related does not accepted > >> accented caracters or something different to ASCII. > >> > >> Alain, in your package I noted the sources is not utf-8 but iso-8859-15 > >> (8 bits), I converted it to utf-8 and tried to get it loaded in Pharo3, > >> but still accent characters caused problem, see screenshot. > >> > >> Enclosed source file utf-8 converted and improper imported source code > >> with accented variable name. > >> > >> Hilaire > >> > >> Le 08/09/2014 12:18, Alain Busser a Ã©crit : > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I don't know if it is related but I have problems importing french > files > >>> inside Pharo 3: Anytime when there is an accentuated character there is > >>> an error, and the file is not imported. Even if the character is a > quote > >>> inside double quotes (like in "it don't work") there is an error > >>> message. Right now I can't import MathsOntologie > >>> ( > http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/MathsOntologie/MathsOntologie-AlainBusser.68.mcz > ) > >>> > >>> into Pharo 3 and I have to go on developing it in Pharo 1.4... > >>> > >>> Alain > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu > > iStoa - http://istao.drgeo.eu > > > > > > >

Sept. 9, 2014

Re: [Pharo-users] Math Ontologie on Pharo 3.0

by Sven Van Caekenberghe

I don't think it is related to Opal: I made a test class with an instance variable, accessor and class comment with accents - which I can file out and file in: I tested in 3.0 and 4.0 The problem might be with Monticello. On 08 Sep 2014, at 20:05, Hilaire <hilaire(a)drgeo.eu> wrote: > Oh, by the way, it looks like the accents are on the instance variable names. > > I edited the subject to not pollute the original discussion thread. > > Hilaire > > Le 08/09/2014 20:01, Hilaire a Ã©crit : >> Marcus, >> >> Alain's MathOntologie package provide Classes and Messages with French >> accent, to ease the understanding of programming to high school students. >> I am suspecting the new compiler or something related does not accepted >> accented caracters or something different to ASCII. >> >> Alain, in your package I noted the sources is not utf-8 but iso-8859-15 >> (8 bits), I converted it to utf-8 and tried to get it loaded in Pharo3, >> but still accent characters caused problem, see screenshot. >> >> Enclosed source file utf-8 converted and improper imported source code >> with accented variable name. >> >> Hilaire >> >> Le 08/09/2014 12:18, Alain Busser a Ã©crit : >>> Hi, >>> >>> I don't know if it is related but I have problems importing french files >>> inside Pharo 3: Anytime when there is an accentuated character there is >>> an error, and the file is not imported. Even if the character is a quote >>> inside double quotes (like in "it don't work") there is an error >>> message. Right now I can't import MathsOntologie >>> (http://ss3.gemstone.com/ss/MathsOntologie/MathsOntologie-AlainBusser.68.mcz) >>> >>> into Pharo 3 and I have to go on developing it in Pharo 1.4... >>> >>> Alain >>> >> >> > > > -- > Dr. Geo - http://drgeo.eu > iStoa - http://istao.drgeo.eu > >

Sept. 8, 2014